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When does "thousand" not mean "thousand?"

Revelation does not stand on it's own and we must consider Peter's words. "Soon" and "near" in Revelation do not mean t"soon" and "near" as man considers them.
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I disagree. Peter is quoting a Psalm to indicate to his readers that the scoffers who were mocking the idea that Christ would return soon were wrong. The "you" he writes in this passage is those to whom he was writing his epistle at that time. He did not address it to us.

Furthermore, it's clear Peter believed he and all the other apostles were living in the last days, and it is in this context he writes the passage in 2Peter 3:

Know this first of all, that in the last days ... 2 Peter 3:3-4 (NASB)

And what is he recorded as having said in Acts?


But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; Acts 2:14-17 (NASB)


The writer of Hebrews concurs:


...in these last days has spoken to us in His Son... Hebrews 1:2 (NASB)


Perhaps the early Christians felt or hoped that the end was near but seeing as how we are here now, two thousand years later and the end has not yet come, we must understand that "soon" in Revelation is God's "soon," not ours.
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Or perhaps our modern, evangelical/fundamentalist understanding of what the "last days" means to us isn't what it meant to Christ or the apostles.

Until you are prepared to see it as they did, all who claim "the end" hasn't happened will be at odds with the expressed word of Christ in this matter. Because if they were wrong, Christ knowingly mislead them.

In just so many words, futurism implies that Christ is a liar and the apostles were deceived. Are you sure you want to go there?
 
Revelation does not stand on it's own and we must consider Peter's words. "Soon" and "near" in Revelation do not mean t"soon" and "near" as man considers them. Perhaps the early Christians felt or hoped that the end was near but seeing as how we are here now, two thousand years later and the end has not yet come, we must understand that "soon" in Revelation is God's "soon," not ours.
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The Scriptures were written for man.

Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
Mat 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

Mar 5:36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Luk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Joh 11:20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.

Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,

Joh 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.


These passages were just quickly grabbed from each of the gospels showing the uses of the words soon and near..... the everyday usage we would use today.
 
These passages were just quickly grabbed from each of the gospels showing the uses of the words soon and near..... the everyday usage we would use today.
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Yep. And as I have pointed out in other threads, the book of Revelation is permeated throughout with these ideas of imminence and urgency:

~'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Revelation 2:10 (NASB)

~'Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. Revelation 2:25 (NASB)

(How could the church at Thyatira do this if He weren't coming for another 2,000 years?)

~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB)

The reason people struggle with the symbolism in the book of Revelation is because they haven't accepted the plain meaning of the clear and simple language and ideas presented in it.
 
Seeing the literal for what it is...

~'Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. Revelation 2:25 (NASB)
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Would we take this to mean 2,000+ years later if this were a 911 operator telling a would-be crime victim something similar?

"Hold on until the police get there."

What would the seven churches have expected this to mean: that His coming was imminent, or that He wouldn't be coming in their earthly lifetime?

John wrote to the churches what Christ Himself told Him to write. So would the Son of God tell John to write something to the churches knowing they would be mislead by His own words?
 
Stormcrow said:
You can all thank Reba for this one:

"For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills. Psalm 50:10 (NASB)

She then asked, "Who owns the cattle on hill 1001?"

Clearly, the word "thousand" in this verse is meant to convey the idea of vastness: the cattle on an infinite number of hills belong to God. It is not a literal "thousand hills."

Now David was writing this Psalm under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So, too, was John when he wrote this:

Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:6 (NASB)

To phrase it in the form of Reba's question, "Who reigns after a thousand years? Does Christ's reign end after a thousand years? See the problem with taking the word thousand here literally?

Christ's reign is eternal, so too is the life we received the moment we accepted Him. The word "thousand" in this case - like the word "thousand" in the Psalms - is not a literal thousand years. For just as the word "thousand" in the Psalms represents the infinite, the word "thousand" in Revelation represents the eternal.

The first resurrection - as I believe Hitch correctly asserts - relates to this "resurrection":

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)

Those waiting for another resurrection are missing what it means to be raised to newness of life now.
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Many times in the bible "thousand" points to the millennium.

The passage below is a prophecy of how God's people will be spiritually fed from Jesus death on the cross til the millennium.

Mar_8:19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.
Mar_8:20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.

Five loaves (Jesus body) when broken leaves 12 baskets (disciples) left to feed God's people all the way to the millennium.

Seven loaves (Jesus body) when broken leaves 7 baskets (7 churches) to feed God's people until the millennium.
 
Stormcrow said:
You can all thank Reba for this one:

"For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills. Psalm 50:10 (NASB)

She then asked, "Who owns the cattle on hill 1001?"

Clearly, the word "thousand" in this verse is meant to convey the idea of vastness: the cattle on an infinite number of hills belong to God. It is not a literal "thousand hills."

Now David was writing this Psalm under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So, too, was John when he wrote this:

Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:6 (NASB)

To phrase it in the form of Reba's question, "Who reigns after a thousand years? Does Christ's reign end after a thousand years? See the problem with taking the word thousand here literally?

Christ's reign is eternal, so too is the life we received the moment we accepted Him. The word "thousand" in this case - like the word "thousand" in the Psalms - is not a literal thousand years. For just as the word "thousand" in the Psalms represents the infinite, the word "thousand" in Revelation represents the eternal.

The first resurrection - as I believe Hitch correctly asserts - relates to this "resurrection":

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:4-7 (NASB)

Those waiting for another resurrection are missing what it means to be raised to newness of life now.
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Just out of curiosity, with this line of thinking...

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

How many were added?
 
The 'cattle on a thousand hills' belong to the Lord (Psalm 50.10), figurative of plenty and of God's bountiful provision.
 
John 8:32 said:
Just out of curiosity, with this line of thinking...

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

How many were added?
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About three thousand.
 
Sinthesis said:
Are you upset that the Holy Spirit didn't provide you with an exact number?
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No, actually I rejoice that it added about three thousand. I don't have a problem with thousand meaning thousand, whether if be those added to the church or years of the Millenium.
 
John 8:32 said:
No, actually I rejoice that it added about three thousand. I don't have a problem with thousand meaning thousand, whether if be those added to the church or years of the Millenium.
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But it doesn't always mean a literal thousand. Context, context, context.
 
John 8:32 said:
Does the context of Rev 20 indicate this does not mean 1000? How about 2 Pet 3:8 in regards to a 7000 year week?
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Rev 20 may or may not mean a literal thousand. It could be symbolic for a long period of time. We obviously have to be careful with Revelation as it uses apocalyptic language which is often highly symbolic.

2 Pet 3:8 also may or may not mean a literal thousand but I tend to think that it does not. It is a simile and therefore not necessarily equating "one day" with "a thousand years." Peter is emphasizing the need for patience.
 
365 days in a year each day is as a 1000 years is that 365,000 days to make a single year?
Figuring Jesus was killed/gave His life 2012 of our years ago..that would be about 734,000 days times 1000 equals 734,000,000 days minis the 734,000 is about 733,000,000.


A brother used to say... I have killed you a million times for exaggerating !
 
reba said:
365 days in a year each day is as a 1000 years is that 365,000 days to make a single year?
Figuring Jesus was killed/gave His life 2012 of our years ago..that would be about 734,000 days times 1000 equals 734,000,000 days minis the 734,000 is about 733,000,000.


A brother used to say... I have killed you a million times for exaggerating !
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I believe that would be...

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Six thousand years for man to do labor and try to govern himself.

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

A one thousand year rest of the Millenium of the rule of Christ on the earth.
 
I've recently come to the conclusion that even though I do believe Satan has been cast into the "Lake of fire", sin still exists (and always will).
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sin will not always exist

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

All the above are still with us too this day,if satan was cast in the lake the above mentioned people would have went with him
 
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