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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Bible Study When it comes to grace...
- Thread starter JM
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #2
Calvinism
Biblical Christianity as taught by John Calvin
(1509-1564) and his spiritual successors.
Emphasizes the complete sovereignty of God in His universe,
and particularly in salvation. Also... Original Sin, Total Inability, gifted faith, and imputed righteous through Christ's "once for all" substiutionary atonement.
( SEE:John Calvin.CONTRAST:Hyper-Calvinism, Arminianism.
RELATED: Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP, Original Sin, Gifted Faith,
Alien Righteousness, Imputed Righteousness, Vicarious Atonement.
CONTRAST:Calvinistic.ALSO SEE:Continental Calvinism,
Presbyterianism, Belgic Reformed. )
Arminianism
A semi-Pelagian doctrinal system denying
Irresistible Grace, and substituting Prescient Election for
Unconditional Election. Also rejects Total Depravity by maintaining that a person -on their own- has the ability to seek God and 'come to
Christ'.
Claims that Jesus atoned for all men, but the benefits of
the atonement don't go into effect until individuals bring
themselves to faith.
Continental European Arminianism usually also denies
Preservation of the Saints, while American Arminianism
often doesn't.
( SEE:Free Willism, Foreseen Faith, Prescient Election,
Conditional Predestination, Five Points of Remonstrance,
Cooperative Grace, Power to the Contrary.CONTRAST:
Calvinism, TULIP, Absolute Predestination,
Unconditional Election, Irresistible Grace.RELATED:
Revivalism, Finney.COMPARE:Pelagianism. )
Amyraldianism
Semi-Calvinist theology of Moyse Amyraut,
(born 1596, died 1664) who taught such aberrant doctrines as
Universal Grace and Hypotheitical Universalism.
( SEE:Universal Grace,Hypothetical Universalism,Pajonism. )
Biblical Christianity as taught by John Calvin
(1509-1564) and his spiritual successors.
Emphasizes the complete sovereignty of God in His universe,
and particularly in salvation. Also... Original Sin, Total Inability, gifted faith, and imputed righteous through Christ's "once for all" substiutionary atonement.
( SEE:John Calvin.CONTRAST:Hyper-Calvinism, Arminianism.
RELATED: Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP, Original Sin, Gifted Faith,
Alien Righteousness, Imputed Righteousness, Vicarious Atonement.
CONTRAST:Calvinistic.ALSO SEE:Continental Calvinism,
Presbyterianism, Belgic Reformed. )
Arminianism
A semi-Pelagian doctrinal system denying
Irresistible Grace, and substituting Prescient Election for
Unconditional Election. Also rejects Total Depravity by maintaining that a person -on their own- has the ability to seek God and 'come to
Christ'.
Claims that Jesus atoned for all men, but the benefits of
the atonement don't go into effect until individuals bring
themselves to faith.
Continental European Arminianism usually also denies
Preservation of the Saints, while American Arminianism
often doesn't.
( SEE:Free Willism, Foreseen Faith, Prescient Election,
Conditional Predestination, Five Points of Remonstrance,
Cooperative Grace, Power to the Contrary.CONTRAST:
Calvinism, TULIP, Absolute Predestination,
Unconditional Election, Irresistible Grace.RELATED:
Revivalism, Finney.COMPARE:Pelagianism. )
Amyraldianism
Semi-Calvinist theology of Moyse Amyraut,
(born 1596, died 1664) who taught such aberrant doctrines as
Universal Grace and Hypotheitical Universalism.
( SEE:Universal Grace,Hypothetical Universalism,Pajonism. )
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,227
- 4
I'd have to go with Amyraldian, as far as my beliefs are so far.
Here is a decent article from Spurgeon's site explaining some of the positions.
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/sup_infr.htm
Here is a decent article from Spurgeon's site explaining some of the positions.
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/sup_infr.htm
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Jason,
Why is this doctrine so important to you?
Is it more important than your relationship with Christ and being unified with other believers?
It sure seems so to me. It has to sadden our Lord Jesus.
I am none of the above.
I am a Christian first.
I am a Christian only.
I have no need to debate such issues. I concentrate more on my relationship with the Lord and being a witness to those around me.
We all have a ministry - is converting Christians to Calvinism yours?
Why is this doctrine so important to you?
Is it more important than your relationship with Christ and being unified with other believers?
It sure seems so to me. It has to sadden our Lord Jesus.
I am none of the above.
I am a Christian first.
I am a Christian only.
I have no need to debate such issues. I concentrate more on my relationship with the Lord and being a witness to those around me.
We all have a ministry - is converting Christians to Calvinism yours?
- Thread starter
- #6
DIME Ministries said:
Understanding Grace is of great importance, why isn't it important to you?
No, but my relationship with Christ is based on the work He did on the cross.
Are you saying doctrine doesn't matter to Christ?
Yes you are and you're kidding yourself if you think your not one of the above, it's false to think doctrine isn't important.
We all are! :roll:
I don't wish to debate this issue either, a relationship with the Lord flows from an understand of His work and word as well as your place and relation to Him. This is the reason for doctrine and if you read any history of the early church you'll find the first 500 years were spent combating false teaching and doctrine. :wink:
My ministry is to bring folks to Christ as commanded, with love, teaching them the word of God.
Jason
Blazin Bones
Member
- Oct 6, 2004
- 10,717
- 84
Hey Guys, let's get back to the topic before someone starts throwing around insults.
DIME, We are all Christians, Jason is right about that.
Jason, No offense, but I think Dime has a point in the fact that you argue through a calvinistic mind a little more than you do as a fellow christian.
I love you both, but don't let differences in doctrine come before the relationship we share in Christ. Evanman puts it best, and I think all of us, myself included, need to remember his signature. Christ before Christianity.
As to the grace Issue, I'm with Vic, as you an tell by my stance in the Predesination vs. Free Will thread.
DIME, We are all Christians, Jason is right about that.
Jason, No offense, but I think Dime has a point in the fact that you argue through a calvinistic mind a little more than you do as a fellow christian.
I love you both, but don't let differences in doctrine come before the relationship we share in Christ. Evanman puts it best, and I think all of us, myself included, need to remember his signature. Christ before Christianity.
As to the grace Issue, I'm with Vic, as you an tell by my stance in the Predesination vs. Free Will thread.
- Thread starter
- #8
Ya, you're right. 
:
I have a real heartfelt zeal for the doctrines of Grace, it's often a point of contention with fellow believers so I guess I attack before I get attacked. I belong to a non calvinist Baptist church and often am confronted about my beliefs...
jason
: I have a real heartfelt zeal for the doctrines of Grace, it's often a point of contention with fellow believers so I guess I attack before I get attacked. I belong to a non calvinist Baptist church and often am confronted about my beliefs...
jason
Blazin Bones
Member
- Oct 6, 2004
- 10,717
- 84
Jason, we all have our own views, just don't forget that we all serve the same Jesus. What it really boils down to in the end is that Christians must teach Christ, not our own little opinions. We all Serve a Risen savior who is coming again, and we must tell everyone we can. That's our job. Then we can argue different doctrines. I love you brother. God's blessings to all.
- Thread starter
- #10
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
Do you believe the Doctrines of Grace (that is the offical name) are 'little opinions' and second, how can you be sure yours aren't just opinions as well?
I went back over the last group of postings I've made, I haven't stressed D of G in anything but Grace related threads, I don't consider that trying to convert folks to calvinism...just sharing my 'own little opinions!'
:
Blazin Bones
Member
- Oct 6, 2004
- 10,717
- 84
I'm not trying to poke at you Jason, I like how you address issues. I was just trying to stop an arguement before it started. I love you two, but this is not a topic that should break down into denominational bickering.
R
Restin
Guest
Split Personality
Where do you put split personalities?
Where do you put split personalities?
- Rom 7: 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then,
on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God,
......[100% Predestination as recorded in the word of God]
but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
......[100% free will]
E
Elijah message
Guest
Well friends, tell the one that is seen in Rom. 8:14 or even the same one of Rom. 8:1 who says, 'NO CONDEMNATION [TO THEM THAT ARE *IN CHRIST JESUS..." or who 'LEADS' us, that His 'Inspiration' is not conditional? Heb. 13:20's Everlasting Covenant.
---Elijah
---Elijah
- Apr 2, 2003
- 23,511
- 6,476
What I really like about the characteristics of Arminianism is how they are portrayed as not being certain Calvinist characteristics. For instance,
"A semi-Pelagian doctrinal system denying
Irresistible Grace, and substituting Prescient Election for
Unconditional Election."
The author of these definitions is obviously a Calvinist as he assumes the Calvinist doctrines are correct and the Arminian doctrines are then given as the lack of being Calvinist (ex. darkness is really the absence of light).
This is most clearly evident from the opening statements:
"Calvinism
Biblical Christianity as taught by John Calvin
(1509-1564) and his spiritual successors. "
"Arminianism
A semi-Pelagian doctrinal system denying..."
And on it goes. It really is a fallacious way of portraying Arminianism. Calvinisim has its strong and weak points as does Arminianism. They both try to come to grips with all the Bible says on given issues, which means that neither is likely to be 100% correct. One should not be dogmatic about such things. Having said that, I think that Arminianism is superior (more encompassing) than Calvinism, but I'm not going to be dogmatic about it.
"A semi-Pelagian doctrinal system denying
Irresistible Grace, and substituting Prescient Election for
Unconditional Election."
The author of these definitions is obviously a Calvinist as he assumes the Calvinist doctrines are correct and the Arminian doctrines are then given as the lack of being Calvinist (ex. darkness is really the absence of light).
This is most clearly evident from the opening statements:
"Calvinism
Biblical Christianity as taught by John Calvin
(1509-1564) and his spiritual successors. "
"Arminianism
A semi-Pelagian doctrinal system denying..."
And on it goes. It really is a fallacious way of portraying Arminianism. Calvinisim has its strong and weak points as does Arminianism. They both try to come to grips with all the Bible says on given issues, which means that neither is likely to be 100% correct. One should not be dogmatic about such things. Having said that, I think that Arminianism is superior (more encompassing) than Calvinism, but I'm not going to be dogmatic about it.
- Thread starter
- #15
Free, I knew you'd take the stance you did... :
Was Anyone Saved at the Cross?
"We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved." ---Charles Haddon Spurgeon
And for the record: Let there be no misunderstanding at this point. The Arminian limits the atonement as certainly as does the Calvinist. The Calvinist limits the extent of it in that he says it does not apply to all persons...while the Arminian limits the power of it, for he says that in itself it does not actually save anybody. The Calvinist limits it quantitatively, but not qualitatively; the Arminian limits it qualitatively, but not quantitatively. For the Calvinist it is like a narrow bridge that goes all the way across the stream; for the Arminian it is like a great wide bridge that goes only half-way across. As a matter of fact, the Arminian places more severe limitations on the work of Christ than does the Calvinist. (Lorraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (Phillipsburg, New Jersey: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1932) p. 153.)
: Was Anyone Saved at the Cross?
"We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved, and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved." ---Charles Haddon Spurgeon
And for the record: Let there be no misunderstanding at this point. The Arminian limits the atonement as certainly as does the Calvinist. The Calvinist limits the extent of it in that he says it does not apply to all persons...while the Arminian limits the power of it, for he says that in itself it does not actually save anybody. The Calvinist limits it quantitatively, but not qualitatively; the Arminian limits it qualitatively, but not quantitatively. For the Calvinist it is like a narrow bridge that goes all the way across the stream; for the Arminian it is like a great wide bridge that goes only half-way across. As a matter of fact, the Arminian places more severe limitations on the work of Christ than does the Calvinist. (Lorraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (Phillipsburg, New Jersey: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1932) p. 153.)
- Thread starter
- #17
Sure, eveyone is always misunderstanding arminianism. :
Quote: Monergism: "In theol., The doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration - that the human will possesses no inclination to Christ or holiness until regenerated, and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration." In this view, the new birth (or regeneration) precedes faith
Synergism: "In theol., the doctrine that there are two efficient agents in [that are necessary as precursors for] regeneration, namely the human will and the divine Spirit, which, in the strict sense of the term, cooperate." In this view, faith precedes new birth (or regeneration).
End quote.
Calvinist theology is monergistic, arminian theology is synergistic.
Are We Saved By Grace Alone through Faith Alone OR By Grace … Plus Faith Alone?
Take your time Free, I can do this for the rest of my nature life.
j
: Quote: Monergism: "In theol., The doctrine that the Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration - that the human will possesses no inclination to Christ or holiness until regenerated, and therefore cannot cooperate in regeneration." In this view, the new birth (or regeneration) precedes faith
Synergism: "In theol., the doctrine that there are two efficient agents in [that are necessary as precursors for] regeneration, namely the human will and the divine Spirit, which, in the strict sense of the term, cooperate." In this view, faith precedes new birth (or regeneration).
End quote.
Calvinist theology is monergistic, arminian theology is synergistic.
Are We Saved By Grace Alone through Faith Alone OR By Grace … Plus Faith Alone?
Take your time Free, I can do this for the rest of my nature life.
j
- Thread starter
- #18
When Paul was preaching there were some bystanders and…
“…Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.†(NKJV)
If the Lord opened Lydia's heart "to take heed to Paul’s message" where is there room for the desire for resistance. When the Scripture speaks of opening of softening of the heart in reference to God, it always speaks of God accomplishing his redemptive purpose. When our hearts are opened "to take heed" there is no question that such a one infallibly comes to faith in Christ. Even when Paul says, “O Corinthians, our heart is opened wide†it means that he is already completely theirs. There is no evidence whatsoever that Luke intends us to understand this incident as one where Lydia would be able to even have the desire for, let alone, the full power of rejection. God opens hearts TO UNDERSTAND, TO HEED. The action goes all the way, not part of the way as some believe.
peace
“…Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.†(NKJV)
If the Lord opened Lydia's heart "to take heed to Paul’s message" where is there room for the desire for resistance. When the Scripture speaks of opening of softening of the heart in reference to God, it always speaks of God accomplishing his redemptive purpose. When our hearts are opened "to take heed" there is no question that such a one infallibly comes to faith in Christ. Even when Paul says, “O Corinthians, our heart is opened wide†it means that he is already completely theirs. There is no evidence whatsoever that Luke intends us to understand this incident as one where Lydia would be able to even have the desire for, let alone, the full power of rejection. God opens hearts TO UNDERSTAND, TO HEED. The action goes all the way, not part of the way as some believe.
peace
- Apr 2, 2003
- 23,511
- 6,476
Jason,
Again, you are misrepresenting Arminius' teachings. He taught that one is justified by grace alone.
I'm sure you could, but I can't, and I won't. This is just a divisive issue that doesn't really matter anyway. Both points-of-view are wrong in some areas and right in others. Following Christ is what matters, not what particular theology one adheres to.
Again, you are misrepresenting Arminius' teachings. He taught that one is justified by grace alone.
I'm sure you could, but I can't, and I won't. This is just a divisive issue that doesn't really matter anyway. Both points-of-view are wrong in some areas and right in others. Following Christ is what matters, not what particular theology one adheres to.
E
Elijah message
Guest
Hi Free,
Very good reply! Rings of Titus 3:9-11.
Very good reply! Rings of Titus 3:9-11.
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