[_ Old Earth _] Where Did the Idea of a Flat Earth Originate?

[Douglas Summers]

Oh, I see, you are talking about them seeking their own level as height differences due to pressure, not a level flat surface as I assumed.

Seeking their own level, to me, means that every given point on the surface of a liquid will be exactly the same height.

What you are talking about in the "U" shaped tube, is pressure equilibrium's. The example you quoted works that way due to the mercury putting more pressure on the liquid in the very bottom of the tube. The weight of the liquid on each side of the very middle of the tube, at the bottom, must be the same.

The surface of a lake, however, will always reach a perfect level unless acted upon by a force, like wind.

Also, right at the side of a container, liquids will form a meniscus. A concave meniscus is where the liquid curves up at the edges of the container. This is because the molecules of the liquid are more strongly attached to the container material than themselves.

If the meniscus curves down and forms a convex meniscus, it means that the liquid is more strongly attracted to itself than the material that the container is made from.

Mercury will form a convex meniscus in glass while water will form a convex meniscus.

If the container is large enough in diameter, both liquids will be perfectly level in between their menisci while being at different levels in the tube from side to side.

As for ocean sea levels... I saw these explanations....

The Pacific is less salty and so less dense and so higher and various local current issues make it locally a few centimeters higher than the Atlantic right there. Sea level is not the same around the world.
Talking about the Panama Canal....
It's not really - the difference is only a matter of centimeters and basically it's due to currents and weather conditions. There is no significant difference in sea level on each end.
Or just outright denial...
There is no difference in sea level in the Pacific or the Atlantic Oceans

Good teaching post. HOH chemistry was my profession (retired. now after approx. 40 years)

 

[Jacks Bratt]

I believe that is correct.
However, the earth is not a "flat" (perfectly spherical) surface. There is at least as much topography under the oceans as on land.

And, it is very curious to me as to why the Pacific and Atlantic oceans would be at different levels.......

Ah! Here! :
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-...ean-and-Pacific-ocean-across-the-Panama-Canal

Ya, that explains a lot. Also, the currents, tides and such would help cause this discrepancy, which, when you think about it, over the vastness of the oceans and their immense surface area, is very minuscule.

 

[Brother Mike]

The Earth is in fact as scripture says. Flat, or a plane, not moving, spinning or flying around the Sun at 67,000 mph, The Bible has been correct, there is no curvature rate to be measured.

 

[Brother Mike]

I understand, totally. However, there is the example of the salt flats. I, for one, do not believe that we have a total grasp on all the mysteries of God's universe. This is why I am investigating.

The Earth has no Curvature rate. Period. Scripture is right, the Science to hide it will be exposed and is being exposed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BD9lsZ13DS2VJd1dlTTRTVUk/view

Christians should believe God over science so falsely called.

 

[Barbarian]

The toughest thing for the flat Earthers to explain is why you can launch a larger payload into space if you launch it eastward near the equator.

The speed of the Earth's rotation is added to the kinetic energy of the rocket and so it can lift more material into orbit by launching it that way.

 

[Brother Mike]

The toughest thing for the flat Earthers to explain is why you can launch a larger payload into space if you launch it eastward near the equator.

The speed of the Earth's rotation is added to the kinetic energy of the rocket and so it can lift more material into orbit by launching it that way.

The speed of the Earth equator center is only 1030 mph, not near enough to push an object 17,000 mph. We have nothing that pushes any object that fast, there is no video of any rocket taking orbit, just the lift off then the sudden underwater models they show us with a earth back ground of them docking. since the 1990's until today, zero video of any of the thousands of sats that are suppose to be up there, not one video. NASA took down their life feed after loosing camera and their Earth back ground, we watch all they do and fake.

We do have Fake X (Space X) with some CGI and their lift off into Orbit, but I have a video busting them loosing a camera and showing their model room which they immediately put a error screen over, but to late. Busted.

Believe your bible, not false science. Earth is not moving not flying through space, fixed to a foundation by it's corners, there is no curvature rate and there are no other planets. We are the center of everything with God above.

 

[Barbarian]

The speed of the Earth equator center is only 1030 mph, not near enough to push an object 17,000 mph.

But enough to measurably affect the payload. Which seems to be impossible to explain in any other way than a rotating Earth. For the same reason, the motion of a Foucault pendulum is inconsistent with a flat, stationary Earth.

The Coriolis effect also would not exist without a rotating Earth.

We have nothing that pushes any object that fast, there is no video of any rocket taking orbit, just the lift off then the sudden underwater models they show us with a earth back ground of them docking.

Since the International Space Station is visible from Earth, that won't work, either. And of course, telecommunication satellites would be inexplicable on a flat Earth. You can observe the motions of a number of satellites in space, from Earth.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

The Earth has no Curvature rate. Period. Scripture is right, the Science to hide it will be exposed and is being exposed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BD9lsZ13DS2VJd1dlTTRTVUk/view

Christians should believe God over science so falsely called.

I find this debate and the topic fascinating. I do have some issues with the flat earth model. I also have issues with the globe model.

I believe that, in all honesty, the biblical description of the earth can easily be used to show a flat earth.

I have lost any faith in what NASA says to be truth. I don't believe that any government, today, is trustworthy either. I believe that, whatever freaky information it was, that they found something at Antarctica that was certainly not expected and they are hiding something huge from us. Enough to ban anyone from going there unless you have some special permission and reason.

I think that, if we were privy to all the truth about the space program, Antarctica and area 51,.... the general public would not be able to comprehend or process the real truth.

 

[Brother Mike]

I find this debate and the topic fascinating. I do have some issues with the flat earth model. I also have issues with the globe model.

I believe that, in all honesty, the biblical description of the earth can easily be used to show a flat earth.

I have lost any faith in what NASA says to be truth. I don't believe that any government, today, is trustworthy either. I believe that, whatever freaky information it was, that they found something at Antarctica that was certainly not expected and they are hiding something huge from us. Enough to ban anyone from going there unless you have some special permission and reason.

I think that, if we were privy to all the truth about the space program, Antarctica and area 51,.... the general public would not be able to comprehend or process the real truth.

The Flat Earth Model works, as long as it's not the AE map "Azithmuthal Equidistant or Glessons map" A big flat earther messaged me the other day about the AE Map. It's wrong, it's just a projection map. Nothing NASA has done is real, it's a freemasonry satanic cult. They based the moon missions naming it after the Lord of the Pit Apollo.

They believe that with symbols, and rituals they can continue to perpetuate a lie.
View attachment 10555

The Poles:

1928 they found 5,000 miles beyond center South Pole. It should only be 2100 miles from McMurdo across. This was confirmed by our Navy in operation High Jump. Admiral Byrd talked about this land larger than the United States which would be impossible on the current Size given for the globe model. Lots of resources to be divided up by different countries.

Admiral Byrd also found 1,700 miles that did not end beyond North Pole, they had to turn back.

Operation Deepfreeze:
Whatever Admiral Byrd showed 30 other countries that went, it caused them to seal up the South Pole, and that started Operation Fishbowl aptly named. Both Russia and the U.S shot Missiles into space in attempts to break through or get data from something.

Soon, NASA was formed to have the fake psyop between the Beast System in Russia and the U.S concerning Sputnik. This was to instill fear in both people and gain more control.

All we know is that there is more land beyond each pole, nothing crosses over either Pole.

I have a channel dedicated to examining God's Real EArth according to scripture.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfJ3djTbndNVkqjoPMOf3CQ

Bible Earth. Earth According to all the scriptures. It's As God said He made Earth, not what Science lied about.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BD9lsZ13DS2VJd1dlTTRTVUk/view

We don't know lots of things still, but God will reveal the rest and finish this great move to know Him and His creation. We will know everything.

Let God be true, every man a liar.

Mike.

 

[Barbarian]

So explain to us how rockets fired eastward can put more payload into orbit than rockets fired westward.

And how exactly does a Foucault pendulum work on a flat and stationary Earth? And how does the Coriolis effect work on such an Earth?

 

[Brother Mike]

So explain to us how rockets fired eastward can put more payload into orbit than rockets fired westward.

And how exactly does a Foucault pendulum work on a flat and stationary Earth? And how does the Coriolis effect work on such an Earth?

As your Bible states, the Earth is fixed in place, not spinning. Planes don't keep their reference to Earth and thus could not land on something spinning beneath them at 940 mph in North America.
Foucault pendulum
There should be no stationary Pendulum's, but as it is, they need to be started. It's just assumption that it's the earth moving, and assumption is not good enough.

Nothing Goes into Orbits, no rocket designed can push anything through a Vacuum as the gas escapes at the same velocity one molecule after the other as all molecules rush violently to fill the vacuum offering no push back to the rocket itself.

There is also not one video of any rocket taking orbit around earth. Just video of them going up and taking a parabolic dive back into the ocean.

However, Being a Christian site, one should believe God's Word over science so falsely called. NASA are Freemasons, part of the beast system and nothing is to be trusted.

Mike.

 

[jasonc]

hello. light from the sun is a particle that is moving through a vacuum . nor is the sun not in a true an perfect vacuum if what you say is true then a gas that must be installed in a vacuum isn't possible. air an Freon aren't able to coexist an that system work properly.

 

[Barbarian]

As your Bible states, the Earth is fixed in place, not spinning.

I'm always slightly suspicious that such an argument is Edit trying to make Christians look silly. In fact, the earth doesn't have corners. You go long enough in any direction and you come back to where you started.

Planes don't keep their reference to Earth and thus could not land on something spinning beneath them at 940 mph in North America.

Here's a way to test that idea. Get on an airplane, going a few hundred miles an hour. In the aisle, do a jump straight up. The airplane is moving below you at hundreds of miles an hour, and yet you come back down as though it weren't moving at all. When you realize why this is so, you will understand why aircraft don't see the Earth spinning below them. Think about it.

Foucault pendulum

There should be no stationary Pendulum's, but as it is, they need to be started.

So why does a Foulcault pendulum rotate precisely at the rate of the rotating Earth, consistent with the latitude at where it is located? Tell us how that works.

Nothing Goes into Orbits,

Sorry, that's wrong. We can observe,even with the naked eye, the ISS orbiting.

no rocket designed can push anything through a Vacuum as the gas escapes at the same velocity one molecule after the other as all molecules rush violently to fill the vacuum offering no push back to the rocket itself.

Strangely enough, a newspaper back in the 1930s actually advanced that argument to "disprove" Goddard's prediction that man would use rockets in space. In fact, that's not how rockets work. They move in accordance with Newton's third law. Every force exerted in one direction (the gases forcibly ejected from the rocket) causes an equal force in the opposite direction. That's why it works, even in a vacuum.

And explain to us how that Foucault pendulum works if the Earth isn't moving, and how the Coriolis effect produces hurricanes.

 

[Runner]

I confess I haven't studied this thread in any depth (perhaps I'm a Flat Brainer?) but ...

If I agree to finance the expedition, could one of the Flat Earthers simply guide us out to the edge so we too can believe?

Or is there some Truman Show-like artificial boundary that prevents us from actually reaching the edge?

I actually looked this up on the Flat Earth Society website, which is where I go whenever I ponder Flat Earth questions - which means this was the first time I have ever visited it.

The consensus answer seems to be, "NASA guards prevent us from reaching the edge." Presumably these NASA guards are the successors to the Ancient Sumerian, Ancient Roman and Visigoth guards who previously performed this function?

Another answer was that the edges of the earth are exceedingly inhospitable with virtually no atmosphere (did the atmosphere fall off the edge?). If this is true, a follow-up question would be how the NASA guards survive?

 

[Runner]

I gave this some serious thought in the shower and believe I am about to make a very significant contribution to Flat Earth Theology.

It seems to me that technology is rendering the conventional Flat Earth paradigm untenable. You can only posit so many NASA conspiracies and whatnot before you start to sound - let's admit it - completely insane. You might get away with the notion of Visigoth guards at the edges in 600 A.D., but not NASA guards in 2016.

Ergo, what Flat Earth Theology needs is a new paradigm. And I have it.

I have a friend who is also a lawyer and a vehement non-Christian. He seems to be more or less sane in most areas of his life. He believes we are virtual creatures occupying a cosmic software program with a designer he calls the Source. He further believes the program has been infected by a destructive virus called Silog. I point out his "theology" is a near-perfect match for Christianity, but he's having none of this.

Anyway, the notion we are virtual creatures occupying a virtual reality has received a fair amount of non-lunatic attention in non-lunatic scientific publications. It is not laughed at or easily dismissed.

This paradigm opens up all sorts of new possibilities for "things not being what they seem." Do some rather unlikely, seemingly physically impossible, things happen within the context of video games? Indeed they do, I suppose, although I've never actually seen a video game. But I have seen lots of cartoons where a flat earth and a globular earth in the same cartoon would have seemed entirely reasonable.

So there you go. That's your new paradigm. You no longer have to invent NASA guards and all this other silliness. It's not just a Flat Earth. It's a Virtual Flat Earth that can easily be - or be made to be seen as - anything the programmer (God, if you wish) wants it to be or wants us virtual creatures to see it to be at any given moment.

Just work out the details and get back to me. You're welcome.

 

[Brother Mike]

I confess I haven't studied this thread in any depth (perhaps I'm a Flat Brainer?) but ...

If I agree to finance the expedition, could one of the Flat Earthers simply guide us out to the edge so we too can believe?

Or is there some Truman Show-like artificial boundary that prevents us from actually reaching the edge?

I actually looked this up on the Flat Earth Society website, which is where I go whenever I ponder Flat Earth questions - which means this was the first time I have ever visited it.

The consensus answer seems to be, "NASA guards prevent us from reaching the edge." Presumably these NASA guards are the successors to the Ancient Sumerian, Ancient Roman and Visigoth guards who previously performed this function?

Another answer was that the edges of the earth are exceedingly inhospitable with virtually no atmosphere (did the atmosphere fall off the edge?). If this is true, a follow-up question would be how the NASA guards survive?

Some facts:
The Flat Earth Society is set up controled opposition. Their Job is to discourage new flat earthers. No real flat earther post on that site ever. People like Mark Sergent, Jeranism, Eric Dubay, Dr. Zack, and so on are real flat eathers.

NASA, ESA and 30 other countries have under Ice subs stationed in McMurdo. There is also a air stripe with fighter planes ready for launch. They are not guarding the South Pole, they are guarding from something they believe. The are stationed right on the dimensional repeat line. (Yes, the Sun does exactly as scripture says it does)

The W.I.P Array guards the North Pole. Nothing fly's over center North Pole, nothing ever has.

The extension of both Poles are only know to us 1,700 (North Pole) miles from Center of each pole. That is the only thing verified by our own NAVY before things were hushed down.

The book World beyond the Poles talk of a infinite plane. I have a copy of the book if you want it. 1959. It's good reading, with real source material, but the infinite plane is part speculation.

The Earth is not the AE map, it's square or diamond shape. We know the UTM Grid is correct. It's just as scripture says it is.

It will all come out, we learned a lot in year 2.

Mike.

 

[Barbarian]

So no explaination of the motion of a Foucault pendulum? No explanation for the Coriolis effect? No explanation about what keeps the International Space Station in orbit? After all, we can see it crossing the sky if we look in the right place.

Isn't that a pretty good clue that there's something wrong with the flat earth issue?

 

[Free]

The Earth is in fact as scripture says. Flat, or a plane, not moving, spinning or flying around the Sun at 67,000 mph, The Bible has been correct, there is no curvature rate to be measured.

In that case, the Bible says the earth is a circle, yet it also says it has four corners; something that is impossible. But this goes back to a point I made earlier: the Bible uses figures of speech which is something that flat-earthers choose to ignore.

All flat-earthers have to go on is a conspiracy of such massive proportions that it simply cannot be true.

Do you think that if two planes left the same city and one travelled due east and the other west, that they would eventually meet up, that they could arrive at the same city? And why has no one ever seen the edges of the earth? Surely with all the explorers throughout the centuries that someone would have seen an edge by now, don't you think? If the earth truly was flat, then from 33,000 feet in the air, surely anyone with a window seat would be able to see the edge(s), wouldn't they?

 

[Brother Mike]

In that case, the Bible says the earth is a circle, yet it also says it has four corners; something that is impossible. But this goes back to a point I made earlier: the Bible uses figures of speech which is something that flat-earthers choose to ignore.

All flat-earthers have to go on is a conspiracy of such massive proportions that it simply cannot be true.

Do you think that if two planes left the same city and one travelled due east and the other west, that they would eventually meet up, that they could arrive at the same city? And why has no one ever seen the edges of the earth? Surely with all the explorers throughout the centuries that someone would have seen an edge by now, don't you think? If the earth truly was flat, then from 33,000 feet in the air, surely anyone with a window seat would be able to see the edge(s), wouldn't they?

Free, your Bible, the Word of God is not a figure of speech book, it's not a book of poems, it's truth with no contradictions. Where there is symbolism, we are given the key. No Key, no symbolism. God covers us with His wings, is God a chicken? No, Jesus said He wish to gather Jerusalem as a hen under the wings. (Luke 13:34). God let us know, He most likely does not have feathers or wings, but is comparing spiritual with Natural.

The scripture does not say the Earth is a circle, round or any such shape but having corners and ends. 28 verses have the exact phrase "Ends of the Earth" The Word you question is Chug, used in Isa 40:22, He that sits on the "Circle (Chug) of the earth.
God is not sitting on Earth, and from the vantage point of the "CHUG" we look like Grasshoppers.

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the CHUG of heaven.

CHUG is located above Earth, it's also a Hebrew Male Noun and would need a Hebrew Adjective to describe it's smell, shape, color, size and so on. Hebrew Male nouns do not give their descriptions, just like English Nouns.

Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a CHUG upon the face of the depth:

There is Water above us, and the CHUG "Vault of Heaven BDB"

The Earth is fastened to pillar like objects at the corners under earth.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

The Earth has a face, had a measuring line drawn on it, not around it, and it's fastened by the corners which the angels will stand and hold the wind back from the 4 ends. The Main wind blows across Earth east and runs it's circuit.

The sun moves across Earth and hastens back to it's place to start again. (Ecc 1:5) (Psalm 19) This occurs in the Pacific Ocean, we have several video of it, some mistaken call it "NIRBU"

There is nothing denoting a ball, a moving earth, a spinning earth but the earth is stationary. Every place on Earth for anyone God is always above, in His throne room located right above the stars (Firmament) CHUG and the deep. Nobody looks below for God, or is the Ball in the way of God seeing anything.

Every eye shall see Jesus at His coming, the Firmament will be rolled up, it's a plane where the sun, Moon and stars are set to give light to the earth.

Why can't we see the edges?
For one, we can't get High enough. At 24 miles up, our viewing distance total is only about 5,000 miles below.
Nothing has crossed Center North Pole, nothing has crossed the center South Pole. It's guarded by the Polar treaty singed now by some 52 countries. No commercial flights cross either Pole, all take polar routes over Alaska, Greenland, Iceland, all flight paths fly the global flight route map which are East and West Routes, not over the Pole routes.

There is no curvature rate at 8 inch per mile squared, not for the limited viewing distance we have.
Free, you can believe the freemasonry spinning ball and the story that we came from rocks from your classroom as a kid, or you can believe the Scriptures. It's a choice, and I promise the scripture will be true.

It's called indoctrination Free, because what they found in Operation High Jump and Deepfreeze really bothered them, before that Flat Earth was on the radio and in papers almost daily, Einstein's theory being contested because His theory made it all work by the Magic of something called gravity. The real test done prior showed a flat, none moving earth. They needed something to uphold the fact we are not special, and there is no God.

Bible EArth. Earth according to Scripture and How earth Works.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BD9lsZ13DS2VJd1dlTTRTVUk/view

 

[jasonc]

Free, your Bible, the Word of God is not a figure of speech book, it's not a book of poems, it's truth with no contradictions. Where there is symbolism, we are given the key. No Key, no symbolism. God covers us with His wings, is God a chicken? No, Jesus said He wish to gather Jerusalem as a hen under the wings. (Luke 13:34). God let us know, He most likely does not have feathers or wings, but is comparing spiritual with Natural.

The scripture does not say the Earth is a circle, round or any such shape but having corners and ends. 28 verses have the exact phrase "Ends of the Earth" The Word you question is Chug, used in Isa 40:22, He that sits on the "Circle (Chug) of the earth.
God is not sitting on Earth, and from the vantage point of the "CHUG" we look like Grasshoppers.

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the CHUG of heaven.

CHUG is located above Earth, it's also a Hebrew Male Noun and would need a Hebrew Adjective to describe it's smell, shape, color, size and so on. Hebrew Male nouns do not give their descriptions, just like English Nouns.

Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a CHUG upon the face of the depth:

There is Water above us, and the CHUG "Vault of Heaven BDB"

The Earth is fastened to pillar like objects at the corners under earth.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

The Earth has a face, had a measuring line drawn on it, not around it, and it's fastened by the corners which the angels will stand and hold the wind back from the 4 ends. The Main wind blows across Earth east and runs it's circuit.

The sun moves across Earth and hastens back to it's place to start again. (Ecc 1:5) (Psalm 19) This occurs in the Pacific Ocean, we have several video of it, some mistaken call it "NIRBU"

There is nothing denoting a ball, a moving earth, a spinning earth but the earth is stationary. Every place on Earth for anyone God is always above, in His throne room located right above the stars (Firmament) CHUG and the deep. Nobody looks below for God, or is the Ball in the way of God seeing anything.

Every eye shall see Jesus at His coming, the Firmament will be rolled up, it's a plane where the sun, Moon and stars are set to give light to the earth.

Why can't we see the edges?
For one, we can't get High enough. At 24 miles up, our viewing distance total is only about 5,000 miles below.
Nothing has crossed Center North Pole, nothing has crossed the center South Pole. It's guarded by the Polar treaty singed now by some 52 countries. No commercial flights cross either Pole, all take polar routes over Alaska, Greenland, Iceland, all flight paths fly the global flight route map which are East and West Routes, not over the Pole routes.

There is no curvature rate at 8 inch per mile squared, not for the limited viewing distance we have.
Free, you can believe the freemasonry spinning ball and the story that we came from rocks from your classroom as a kid, or you can believe the Scriptures. It's a choice, and I promise the scripture will be true.

It's called indoctrination Free, because what they found in Operation High Jump and Deepfreeze really bothered them, before that Flat Earth was on the radio and in papers almost daily, Einstein's theory being contested because His theory made it all work by the Magic of something called gravity. The real test done prior showed a flat, none moving earth. They needed something to uphold the fact we are not special, and there is no God.

Bible EArth. Earth according to Scripture and How earth Works.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BD9lsZ13DS2VJd1dlTTRTVUk/view

The stars literally are able to fight and have souls ? yes the stars fought against sisera in their courses.all billions of them landing on the earth and fought sisera .