Where does the line end?

[felix]

Hi. :yes
Sorry, I took so long to answer. I got out of school about two hours ago.

I don't think you fully understand what's going on. He's not allowing me, my sister (age 19), my brother (age 16), and my mother to drive at all. I mention the ages to bring light to the fact that we're all of the legal driving age in the state I live in.

He doesn't want us to leave or have a means of living independent of him. Again, I am not on a teenage rampage...

I don't understand how my dad thinks all the time, but I do know that his growing up without parents has led to this tendency to make decisions that keep us within his grasp for as long as possible.

I'm not only concerned with the "no-driving" rule. That was the main issue biting at me when I posted this. As far as treating me bad goes- well, I'm going to have to say that he treats me decently, I guess. Food, clothing, shelter- we have all those thanks my mom and him. Also, they have instilled strong Christian values in my siblings and me so I want to make sure I am not going against God if I leave. I know that my father will go berserk. My mom- she would be concerned with how I would fare but she would encourage my decision to move out.She does not do it openly around my Dad because he would punish her for contradicting him and punish me also, and just try to control us even more.

I can't tell you everything that goes on, but really, I don't see how it is important in respect to what the Scripture allows a teenager to do in respect to leaving her parents.

The way I see it, it's either it is acceptable or not acceptable in God's eyes. That was the real question I should have made clearer: Is it okay for me to move out when I turn 18 against my Dad's wishes?

Please Help.....

While handy replies always having your father in bad light, I do not. You also try to portray your dad in bad light by saying that he punishes (which is actually a hard word) and yet you reveal that punishment is controlling further, which I don't think it's punishment at all. A strict controlling dad is not a bad dad at all. I will personally recommend your dad to be a bishop.

(1Tim 3:2-5) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having [his] children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

Further, as in Psalm 128
(Ps 128:3,6) ... Your children like olive plants All around your table. v6 Yes, may you see your children's children...

Your father having you living near him (not necessarily on the same home - e.g., like Job) is actually a blessing. Giving him this blessing is only in your hands.

You also say your father will go berserk. Being angry is not a sin. Even Jesus was angry and even took a whip at the Temple.

(Eph 4:26-27) "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil.

Finally, let's consider you move out tomorrow and you say good-bye to your parents, who is going to pay for your expenses? Do you have your own finances or savings to pay or you still depend on your parents? If your parents are going to pay for your college, your every expenses, how can you disobey them? No parent will treat his/her adult child as young when s/he starts to earn and stand on his/her own feet.

I believe you care about you and you alone and not your parents. Scripture says you need to take care and support them , even until the very end. handy had a different situation which made her see your father in bad light but I think your dad is a wonderful father and you must be gifted to have him (as many other fathers are drunkard, spending lavishly, not worrying about family etc).

 

[Danus]

The way I see it, it's either it is acceptable or not acceptable in God's eyes. That was the real question I should have made clearer: Is it okay for me to move out when I turn 18 against my Dad's wishes?

Please Help.....

Hi 7teenyearsold. :waving

Yes I think it's acceptable. It's also unfortunate that your father is so controlling, but I think that might speak to his own insecurity more so that his wanting to protect you from the big bad world, so to speak.

You should be driving a car by now.

I have two girls 8 and soon to be 11. It is my job to prepare them fro the world. As a Christian father, it is my God given duty to arm them with the skills and the truth they need to navigate this fallen world with strength, courage, wisdom and skills.

I have no sons, and that fact has made me more determined than ever to raise my girls strong and confident. The relationship I cultivate with them is more important even then mom when it comes to their being in the world when it's time for them to be on their own, and when that day comes I'll be ready with the same faith I have in the lord, I will have in them and and God's ability to watch over them....not mine.

So, if you have faith in God, and I think you do, then I want to encourage you to be the woman that your heavenly father would have of you, and it sounds to me that he is the one speaking to you.

 

[Mike]

7teen,

I read this thread last night from my phone while I was in my car waiting to pick my son up from a movie. He turns 16 next month and has his driver's permit. Between all his baseball and things like the movies, I swing the other way and can't wait for him to be able to drive himself!

Seriously... I fully understand the worry of a parent who's kids are embarking on new responsibilities such as driving. A dad has to find a balance between being protective and allowing them to grow into adulthood. That's not always easy. One day, this will be your struggle as a mom.

It was actually nice to hear you say some positive things about your father, because it validated what you said a few times; that you aren't on a teenage rampage. If everything was dismissive or critical of him, it might appear that problem was your lack of respect.

Proverbs 22:6 says, "Train a child in the way he should go,
and when he is old he will not turn from it."

There are some key words in this directive for parents.

Train - We are preparing our children. A person doesn't train on anything unless s/he has the intent to put this training to use. Our first and foremost job as parents is to impress God's Word on our childrens' hearts. I believe the next most important thing is to prepare them to live productively in society. If a child is not prepared and allowed to drive and move out on her own unless she is again under the control of another man (her husband), she will not be "trained".

way he should go - Not everyone should go the same way. God has plans for our lives, and we need to be prepared and listen to where He would have us go and how we should go. But the key is that all this training a child receives is to prepare them to go; to begin learning further life skills that will one day prepare her to then "train" her children one day.

7teen, from what I've read, your father is not training you with the purpose of empowering you to live an adult life. I believe he has an unhealthy grip on his control. Somehow, you are going to have to embark on your own, but you will need to make it clear that you are not forsaking or abandoning him. He seems to have this fear. He should know that you will always love him, you will always be his girl, but your rolls will settle into a new phase - an adult to adult daughter/father relationship. I believe this can be as rewarding for a dad as the younger years! We have 3 children; our son being the oldest. With him being ~16, can already get a glimpse of what our future relationship will be like, and I have excited expectations!!

I don't believe you are asking for anything beyond reason at all, and I pray that the Lord will relieve him of his burden; that he will allow his family members to spread their wings and live life to its fullest. Prayers to you, too.

 

[7teenyearsold]

First off I would like to thank everyone for their advice and for taking the time to contemplate the situation. I am from the United States and have lived here all my life- I know some of you were wondering what country I lived in.

Also, I don't want everyone thinking that my dad is this horrible person. For the most part, he always tries to do what he thinks is right and he has done many good things for my family and he does tell us often that "we can do anything we set our minds to do (as long as it is not against God's will)" so he does empower my siblings and I greatly. As for his faults - we all have those - and I can't judge him as good or bad because that's up to God. But knowing God's Eternal Understanding, Grace, and Forgiveness, I have no reason to believe that my father is a bad man.

Mr. Felix, it really bothered me when you said that "I believe you care about you and you alone and not your parents". If I didn't care about them, I wouldn't even have come to this forum for advice. Please don't ignore that I also did mention good things about my father and mother.

I don't want to upset my dad by leaving. I would rather he be in favor of me driving and having more freedom, but it does not seem likely that he will change any time soon. After thinking over everyone's opinion and advice, I think I will leave and figure out a way to do it as respectfully as possible. As far as finances and shelter, I have not figured that out yet, but I'm sure that I'll work it out somehow if I work hard and seek help from God.

Thanks again. :waving

 

[Mike]

7teen, you are wise beyond your years. It takes a very mature person at your age to see beyond the things that frustrate her and say with perspective that this does not define her father. For the record, it's also dangerous to dismiss or make excuses for emotional abuse.

I'm NOT, NOT saying I believe the latter to be the case, but if there's any truth in it, you should not hesitate to take protective measures. The only reason I go into this is your comment about "punishing" your mother. If there's any chance of mental/emotional/physical abuse happening, I'd be remiss to say nothing.

All that said, it sounds like you're in a good place, and I do believe you are a terrific young lady. :yes

 

[felix]

First off I would like to thank everyone for their advice and for taking the time to contemplate the situation. I am from the United States and have lived here all my life- I know some of you were wondering what country I lived in.

Also, I don't want everyone thinking that my dad is this horrible person. For the most part, he always tries to do what he thinks is right and he has done many good things for my family and he does tell us often that "we can do anything we set our minds to do (as long as it is not against God's will)" so he does empower my siblings and I greatly. As for his faults - we all have those - and I can't judge him as good or bad because that's up to God. But knowing God's Eternal Understanding, Grace, and Forgiveness, I have no reason to believe that my father is a bad man.

Mr. Felix, it really bothered me when you said that "I believe you care about you and you alone and not your parents". If I didn't care about them, I wouldn't even have come to this forum for advice. Please don't ignore that I also did mention good things about my father and mother.

I don't want to upset my dad by leaving. I would rather he be in favor of me driving and having more freedom, but it does not seem likely that he will change any time soon. After thinking over everyone's opinion and advice, I think I will leave and figure out a way to do it as respectfully as possible. As far as finances and shelter, I have not figured that out yet, but I'm sure that I'll work it out somehow if I work hard and seek help from God.

Thanks again. :waving

I encourage you to visit the other thread but I feel it is important for you to understand the responsibility of your father given by God over you.

Do you think your father does not have the responsibility to give you as a virgin (Deut 22:13-15) and without blemish to a man? How does your father guarantee your safety by letting you live alone out of his sight when you had not planned on finances? You are not on your own. Even in the law, an unmarried woman is bound by her father and a married woman is bound by her husband. You are free and on your own only if you are a widow or a divorced.

The same law (as in Numbers 30) is referred in New Testament in Rom 7:2, 1Cor 7:39 which does not make it void in new covenant.

Hence, as long you are not married, you are bound by your father and not on your own.

 

[theLords]

Let's look at the proper context because then we see that Paul is talking about being released from the Law

Romans 7:1-6

Released from the Law

Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[felix]

Let's look at the proper context because then we see that Paul is talking about being released from the Law

Romans 7:1-6

Released from the Law

Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

What you underlined actually validates that law, not makes it void because, we are dead to sin (that which held us captive). You also missed 1Cor 7:39.

 

[handy]

Even in the law, an unmarried woman is bound by her father and a married woman is bound by her husband. You are free and on your own only if you are a widow or a divorced.

No, this isn't true. It just isn't. Even Numbers 30 which Felix refers to is speaking of legal contracts and clearly states "and as between a father and his daughter, while she is in her youth in her father’s house."

7teenyearsold, it will be hard for you, but I think that you will be able to do it. Start looking at options now. Perhaps your older sister might like to join you, if so, it will be easier for two to find a place.

I also encourage you to study in depth this issue of how adult children need to honor and respect their parents, but not necessarily obey. Since it sounds as if your father respects God's Scriptures, if you can respectfully respond to some of his issues with what you have learned from God's word, he might loosen up. I'm not sure that will happen, because I think his control issues run very deep, but it will be better for you and your family if you can keep this as godly as possible.

Since you have a computer, do avail yourself of all the resources for Bible Study out there...Blue Letter Bible is great for looking up the meanings of words in the original languages. GotQuestions is a good resource for answering tough questions like this one as well.

Keep us posted on how things go...I'm certainly praying for you.

 

[felix]

No, this isn't true. It just isn't.

I don't want to hijack into a debate but there is a necessity to remind that children are a gift from God.

(Ps 127:3) Behold, children [are] a heritage from the LORD, The fruit of the womb [is] a reward.

As handy said, use a blue letter bible or (I personally use The Word) to find the true meaning of that verse. You can also look into other translations for more clarity.

I would also like to post what is posted on the other thread:
If a father is misusing or mistreating his own child which is clearly not in Christ and it is not a requirement according to scriptures to obey him. Neither does scripture teach to cater unreasonable and ungodly whims. Scripture only asks children to obey in the Lord.

7teen, you having made it clear that you don't have any finances or savings or a job to live on your own and your father is being good with christian values yet insecure, don't you think it is your responsibility to help him and support him until he gives you in marriage to a man?

 

[Mike]

This no place to try to win a debate over the issues. A person who seeks advice probably doesn't want to watch such discourse. Please, let's not make this about us and our differences in interpreting scripture. The other thread was created for this to take place in.

The ironic thing is that 7teen put this in the college age forum, and she's surrounded by old moms and dads.

 

[7teenyearsold]

Hi, everyone. :waving

It's been awhile since I've posted (been busy with homework and other things).

Also, I have been working on scholarships and I'm hoping to get one before the school year is over *crosses fingers*. I know that they are not a guaranteed financial source, but there's always hope.

Thanks to you all, I am feeling slightly better about moving out. Second to rebelling against God, I've always felt guilty about telling my dad that I want to move out. I don't want him to think that I am ungrateful for the many good things he has done for me in life. So, there's always been guilt ever since I thought of leaving...

Then there's also exicitement, too!!! Just the novelty of the experience would be fun - living in a dorm, meeting new people and I might even fall in love and meet my future husband. There's just so many opportunities out there that I'm looking forward to that I wouldn't be able to do if I was at home. I will have to make sure to hold on to the values my dad and mom gave me while maturing in the process.

My experience with this forum has been good thus far, and I will continue to come here when I need spiritual and other forms of advice. Also, I appreciate everyone's advice from parents to younger people because it gives me different perspectives on the situation...

 

[handy]

If you haven't already done so, speak to your school's counselor about what is available for you.

Don't forget about resources like your college's financial aid department...they are often a good resource for part-time jobs, grants and other sources of financial aid. Now is not too early to start searching what you will be able to do.

It is exciting...and perhaps if you can show your dad that you are looking into all the aspects of finances and options, he'll see that you are ready for this step. We can hope! Do be reiterating often your love for him and your gratefulness...

...and don't discount your mom in this. My kids sometimes think that I never say or do anything against their father. What they don't see, because we don't let them, is the conversations we have, just the two of us, where I often "go to bat" for them. Perhaps your mom does more behind the scenes than you might think.

 

[Mike]

7teen, my wife was basically an orphan toward the end of college. Her mother died, and her father managed to barely stay out of jail. She basically got in college all by her self and took advantage of student loans as much as possible, and she carried a part-time job. All she had when she showed up was a brown grocery bag with some clothes.

Then she met me there, and things turned bad. ;)

You have much more support. You can do it!!

 

[7teenyearsold]

Thanks, Mike. Reading about how your wife was able to get in college and make it boosts my morale.

And Handy, you're probably right. My mom probably does stick up for me when I think she doesn't.

 

[farouk]

I'm 17 years old and a senior in high school and a straight A student. I'm going to turn eighteen in the winter of 2012.

My dad does not want me to drive so I don't have my permit or any driving experience outside of the manuals I've been reading. So far I have the basics down and the road signs and rules from the reading I've been doing. My dad is somewhat insecure and doesn't allow anyone in the family to drive besides himself, even my mom and my sister who is 19 and already has her high school diploma. I think he's afraid that we may leave him if he allows us to drive because he grew up an orphan, not knowing his mother or father.

I do plan on leaving eventually and going to college to begin my own life, but I won't just pick up and run away once I get my license. He does all the driving from taking us to the grocery store or and other places, but when he doesn't feel like going to places such as my friend's house or after school clubs, then I simply can't go.

I asked him to let me take the driver's ed class my high school offers for free, but he said something along the lines of "I don't have your mother driving, so why would I let you drive?" When I say I want to learn how to drive, he doesn't take me seriously and makes jokes about learning how to ride a bike first.

I am trying to be God-fearing and I know that I'm required to obey my father, but it is becoming really hard to do because I feel like he is trying to control my life and keep me at home forever. I am considering moving out when I'm 18, getting into a college and learning how to drive while I'm there. But I don't know if this rebellion in the eyes of God, because my dad would forbid these actions.

I try to be respectful of God, both of my parents and be hardworking. I love my dad and don't want to upset him. Any advice?

Sorry, I posted this twice because it was not showing up.

Hi, how are you doing?

There are at least two things I would mention, and maybe they are only indirectly relevant to your father:

1) The price of car insurance

2) The price of gas.

 

[Nick]

Hi 7teen - I responded to your thread in the teens section not too long ago. Now I've read this one, I have a much better understanding of your situation. I agree with Handy and Mike. I am 19, but they are much older (hehe) and more mature, and come from the perspective of parents.

If you are going to move out - try doing so with your sister. When there's two of you, it will be easier to support yourselves, and it means you are not alone. When moving out, you really need to be prepared - don't rush too much into this (I'm not saying you are). Make sure you know what kind of costs go with living independently, and try to get a job as soon as possible, and make use of student loans etc, as others have said. From what I can see, moving out of home can be overwhelming and often harder to manage than expected, so do your research, but from what I've read, you seem like a sensible and collected person.

I will be praying for you

 

[Pard]

Have you confronted your dad about this issue?

I don't know your father but I think something along the lines of...

"Dad by forcing us to stay together you are only going to push us apart. You need to back up and let us have our own space because we can't stay kids forever. How am I supposed to have my own family one day if I cannot even leave the house without you? And I'd like to get an education and be able to support myself and a family."

 

[7teenyearsold]

Hmmm. I suppose I could try that.....

It's just that when I try to talk to him about growing up and maturing, he gets angry and says things like" You just do what I tell you, whether you're seventeen or seventy."

I just find it really hard to talk to him about what I truly want to do in life because it stands in stark contrast with how sheltered and close to home he wants me to be. I guess I could find a way to say it to him indirectly maybe...

 

[Pard]

It isn't his life to live for you. I know you have to honor your parents but there comes a point where you have to put your foot down. If they hinder you without just cause I'd say that is a point where the foot must go down. Obviously your dad is hindering your ability to grow and flourish and there is no just cause for it as the rest of the world doe just fine.

Sometimes it best to do stuff as a pack. Try to get your mother and sister to help you make him see that in trying to protect you guys he is in fact hurting you. That's probably the best way to put it to him by the way. The idea that yeah he is trying to help but at the same time it's not working. This way he isn't a bad guy.