Where to Draw the Line?

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think that's a good subject that might need some revisiting from scripture now that pot is legal in some areas. (Maybe in a new thread?) The standard Christian fallback on prohibiting pot has always been that you are breaking the law when you buy or use it. The problem is that lacking specific scripture, it seems rather hypocritical for a Christian to tell the pot smoker he is sinning while the Christian is flying high on his 10th cup of coffee, bottle of Mountain Dew, or smoking his cigarettes. I don't smoke pot myself, but I've always wondered how we can condemn it from scripture. With exception of the legality issue, all of the scripture I've ever seen to condemn pot can be used equally well to condemn moderate and legal use of caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, and many other things many of us use without a second thought.

Disclaimer: I'm not intending to violate the TOS, I'm only speaking of the use of pot in areas where it is legal to do so and am only asking us to reconsider what scriptures apply, not encouraging anyone to start using it.

When I smoked pot, it helped me to escape reality, it made me an introvert, and destroyed self worth.

 

[Obadiah]

When I smoked pot, it helped me to escape reality, it made me an introvert, and destroyed self worth.

As can other legal substances that many Christians use all the time but can also cause problems when overused. This is why I am looking for a scriptural basis for condemning pot while not condemning other legal substances. If there is one, I would like to be able to use it in talking with people. If there isn't one, it would be nice to be aware of this so I can talk about it from the stance of not abusing it, etc like we talk about other legal substances.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

My wife and I got rear ended in our car.
Totaled the car, we both ended up in the hospital with concussions.
The man who hit us died.
He had overdosed on prescription meds, 85 years old.

 

[jasoncran]

caffeine and pot? lets see would you trust a pilot who toked while flying? a truck driver while driving. most pot users that go to jail either commit a crime while high. even its legalized we will pay for them NOT to use in jail. cigarettes and beer , both legal are banned in jails and will be banned in florida(cigaretes) why? health care costs. I cant blame the state for that. you commited a crime. you loose rights!

 

[Obadiah]

caffeine and pot? lets see would you trust a pilot who toked while flying? a truck driver while driving. most pot users that go to jail either commit a crime while high. even its legalized we will pay for them NOT to use in jail. cigarettes and beer , both legal are banned in jails and will be banned in florida(cigaretes) why? health care costs. I cant blame the state for that. you committed a crime. you loose rights!

I agree on all of this, of course. But you are speaking of what would be illegal use of pot. I'd like to be able to tell Christians that I talk to that we shouldn't use pot, but need to see the scriptures that prohibit pot that can not also be used just as well to prohibit all use of all recreational drugs of any kind, including those currently used by many Christians without condemnation such as caffeine or alcohol. Short of finding condemning scripture, maybe we need to change our approach to this subject to be less hypocritical?

To be honest I've always found these scriptures elusive and always fell back on the concept of using it being illegal, therefore a sin. But I live in Washington State where that stance went down the drain when they legalized pot. I find I am having a hard time finding any other rational argument that is not hypocritical.

 

[jasoncran]

how many pot heads do you know in church that don't need it? aa, na define addiction as not by amounts by the ability to function or not with said drug. if you must have it once a day, you are an addict or on the weekend. that is what the aa says. I agree.my fil is a alcoholic. he cant function without his six pack or less a day, seldom does he get drunk. yet he cant function. he would have to drink at work or he would shut down. yet he can drive, talk to you and work on cars, and build all while drinking.

now then the definition of idolatry is anything that is good by itself or not that takes place of God. this can be from drugs, to a tv show, to exercise( I know a man who did stop riding is bike 50 plus miles a day as it was a god to him) or what not. drugs fall into this. how many pot heads simply hit one hit a day or less do you know? my wife smokes. she hits it twice a week.she is an addict. she can function without it yet but will always fall back to it. I know I have had these arguments with her. she claims its for pain. that may be but its not really solving the problem,

by your logic, why is not a sin to use heroine?after that is a drug? its legal in Portugal and so is all drugs do we really have to go there. is it wise to put oneself in a position that one must spend tons of money for a fix and not be able to call out a person who is addicted to that. where it be, drugs or the lotto. yes the lotto can be addictive. I know a woman who is broke all the time. spends 200 dollars a week on the lotto and collect ss for her kids.if you are on the dole you shouldn't be playing the lotto or doing this. to pay for said habits is kinda also biting the government in the foot. its hard to figure out that. its not hyprocritical. I said reasonable. can you show me medically that caffeine impairs judgement. is their a legal limit on caffeine AS WITH pot or beer?

 

[Obadiah]

Ok, well your tone is seeming a little argumentative with me especially when you say "by your logic". It's not my logic, it's defenses that I have heard from others that I never indicated in an way that I agree with. I'm not trying to say it's ok, I've stated I am looking for scripture to condemn it without being a hypocrite. But now I'm sort of feeling like the messenger that is getting shot, so I'll just bow out of this conversation from here out.

 

[Deborah13]

As can other legal substances that many Christians use all the time but can also cause problems when overused. This is why I am looking for a scriptural basis for condemning pot while not condemning other legal substances. If there is one, I would like to be able to use it in talking with people. If there isn't one, it would be nice to be aware of this so I can talk about it from the stance of not abusing it, etc like we talk about other legal substances.

Obadiah, How about "do not become drunk for therein is poor judgment" (para)?
To me this scripture is not speaking of the problem of specifically alcohol but to things that cause one not to be thinking clearly.

 

[jasoncran]

ah." be not drunk as in much wine but be drunk in the spirit"

 

[jasoncran]

sorry, you have taken that position, theres a ton of verses on showing being drunk is bad. was the story of noah being drunk and naked not enough? one doesn't have to be saved to see that being in such a stupor isn't good. im sure he even was so drunk that he relieved himself on that very spot he slept. ever see people like that? I have.

 

[Obadiah]

Obadiah, How about "do not become drunk for therein is poor judgment" (para)?
To me this scripture is not speaking of the problem of specifically alcohol but to things that cause one not to be thinking clearly.

I think that's a paraphrase, not actual scripture? Isn't that what you mean by "(para)"? There is considerable evidence that the passage in the original language is referring to not becoming an alcoholic as opposed to a prohibition of alcohol itself. But I fear that this isn't the place for me to discuss this. I'm just going to end up offending people and giving the impression I'm some kind of pot head.

 

[jasoncran]

how many do you know that really can use pot and not overdue it? how many that drink? I have stated that my fil seldom gets drunk and yet is an alcoholic. aa defines that as any amount of liquor that is enough that you must have it in order to function. be it once a day or the week ends. their definition not mine.

 

[Obadiah]

sorry, you have taken that position, theres a ton of verses on showing being drunk is bad. was the story of noah being drunk and naked not enough? one doesn't have to be saved to see that being in such a stupor isn't good. im sure he even was so drunk that he relieved himself on that very spot he slept. ever see people like that? I have.

I'm confused as to who said being drunk wasn't a bad thing?

 

[jasoncran]

well its a state of mind. if one hit of the the green herb places you in a stupor the first time then its logical too assume that its a sin. can YOU HONESTLY say that the first time a person who hits the bong isn't affected in such manner that he wouldn't be trusted to drive, and not make foolish decisions? that is why I ask you would then allow a high pot user that only takes one hit to drive?

 

[PrivateTimm]

I'm confused as to who said being drunk wasn't a bad thing?

I believe that was Ted Kennedy.

 

[jasoncran]

I believe that was Ted Kennedy.

lol. yeah and he got away with that murder.

 

[Obadiah]

well its a state of mind. if one hit of the the green herb places you in a stupor the first time then its logical too assume that its a sin. can YOU HONESTLY say that the first time a person who hits the bong isn't affected in such manner that he wouldn't be trusted to drive, and not make foolish decisions? that is why I ask you would then allow a high pot user that only takes one hit to drive?

Jason, I have already clearly told you that I feel as if you are attacking me as if I am supporting pot usage, and I have already clearly stated that I am not, but am simply asking for SCRIPTURE to back me up in an area where my main defense against it's use has now been taken from me. PLEASE STOP ACTING AS IF I AM A SUPPORTER OF GETTING HIGH!

 

[Deborah13]

I think that's a paraphrase, not actual scripture? Isn't that what you mean by "(para)"? There is considerable evidence that the passage in the original language is referring to not becoming an alcoholic as opposed to a prohibition of alcohol itself. But I fear that this isn't the place for me to discuss this. I'm just going to end up offending people and giving the impression I'm some kind of pot head.

Yep, I was being lazy and not looking it up.
Ephesians 5:17-18 NIV
17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
KJV, says "excess", but I think the NASB and the NIV are clearer about it. I've always thought of it as poor judgment.

Did farouk start a thread, I thought he said he was going to? I think this is maybe something that should be discussed. Since the changes in the laws, etc.

 

[jasoncran]

I used the argument for being drunk. pot likely wasn't around then in the levant region or in the Greco roman world. you asked for sober. right sober.

if being drunk is a sin, then why is the word sober used in the nt? its context mentions alcohol, right. if alcohol causes by overusage a state of stupor and it does then its a sin. I mention this about pot. have you used it once? I haven't but I have watched my brother get high on it, wife and others. all were regular users. they went from a sober state to laughing. my brother was of this type. my wife uses it and has done creative things with it while high. I have her argue with me and hit it and go from sheer rage to almost glee and barely mad at me in seconds. so that isn't enough?it seems to be that changes the mental state. caffeine doesnt do that. as much as I drink(2 gals of coke a day) that never does that for me.

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

if being drunk is a sin. what does the first hit of pot do? its the same with any drug the first time is a doozy but tolerance is built and it takes more and more.

 

[OhFarouk]

Yep, I was being lazy and not looking it up.
Ephesians 5:17-18 NIV
17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,
KJV, says "excess", but I think the NASB and the NIV are clearer about it. I've always thought of it as poor judgment.

Did farouk start a thread, I thought he said he was going to? I think this is maybe something that should be discussed. Since the changes in the laws, etc.

Did I forget to start a thread?

(Was it about tattoos, or something?)

Blessings.