Which Bible is the true Bible?

[OzSpen]

I'm not asking for the original manuscript of the so called Septuagint. I'm asking where is the manuscript that this so called Septuagint is copied from? Where is the oldest copy of the Septuagint. Hint, there is none.

Just like the Letter of Aristeas, the Septuagint is a fraud.

Quantrill

Please take a read of, 'Why don't the New Testament writers quote the OT word for word?'

 

[OzSpen]

I'm not asking for the original manuscript of the so called Septuagint. I'm asking where is the manuscript that this so called Septuagint is copied from? Where is the oldest copy of the Septuagint. Hint, there is none.

Just like the Letter of Aristeas, the Septuagint is a fraud.

Quantrill

Q,

That's your personal opinion. It is not the view of The Biblical Archaeology Society.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Sure thing...

The Deuterocanonical books were contained in the Septuagint, which were the Scriptures used by Jesus, the Apostles and the early Church. Greek-speaking Jews used the Septuagint, but so many converted to Christianity that Greek-speaking Judaism ceased to exist not long after the time of the Apostles. The canon of the Catholic Old Testament is a Jewish canon; it is the canon of Jews who accepted Christ.

Modern rabbinical Judaism is descended from the practices of the Pharisees, who fixed the Hebrew canon after the development of Christianity and in response to Christianity. The progenitors of Protestantism Protestants chose the Old Testament canon of Jews (Masoretic) who rejected Christ. Ironically, Protestant Bibles like the NIV had to refer to the Septuagint to correct certain portions of their translations from the Tanakh to match the Christological meaning!


The New Testament actually affirms the authority of the Septuagint, which included the Deuterocanonical books. Here are a few examples...

Acts 15:17 ---> Amos 9:12 in the Septuagint. The Masoretic text contradicts the interpretation given by the Apostles.

Hebrews 1:6 ---> Deuteronomy 32:33 in the Septuagint. In the Masoretic text, this verse is missing.

Luke 4:18 ---> Isaiah 61:1 in the Septuagint. Jesus quotes the prophet Isaiah, which is missing in the Masoretic text.



Furthermore, Protestant scholars Gleason Archer and Gregory Chirichigno listed 340 places where the New Testament cites the Septuagint, but only 33 places where it cites from the Masoretic Text rather than the Septuagint.

---> Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament

So, either the Septuagint (containing the Deuterocanonical books) held authority with Jesus, the Apostles and the early Church, or they were all wrong and the progenitors of the various Protestant religions were right.

Do you have examples of where Jesus quoted from the deuterocanonical books?

 

[Quantrill]

Pay attention, as this isn’t rocket surgery.

—-> The 66-book canon exists because the progenitors of the various Protestant religions created it.

Once again, there is no church in Christian history which ever had or used a 66-book canon.

And because it exists, it is part of Church History. When did Church history end?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Q,

That's your personal opinion. It is not the view of The Biblical Archaeology Society.

Oz

It is not the view of most of Christianity. I am always amazed at how Christians go along with this charade.

Quantrill

 

[jaybo]

It is not the view of most of Christianity. I am always amazed at how Christians go along with this charade.

Quantrill

I know of only one "Christian" who goes along with this charade: you.

 

[Walpole]

Do you have examples of where Jesus quoted from the deuterocanonical books?

There are many references from the Deuterocanonical books sprinkled all throughout the New Testament. For example, in Matthew 11:25, Jesus calls the Father the “Lord of heaven and earth”. The only place where this salutation is found in the entire Old Testament is in Tobit 7:18, which Jesus is clearly quoting.

In a previous post in this thread, I have a few screen shots of the numerous cross references to the Deuterocanonical books found in the 1611 Protestant King James Version. There are over 100 of them.

 

[Walpole]

And because it exists, it is part of Church History. When did Church history end?

Quantrill

This isn't rocket surgery...

The 66-book canon exists because the progenitors of the various Protestant religions created it.

Once again, there is no church in Christian history which ever had or used a 66-book canon. None. Nada. Zilch. The 66-book canon was a novel innovation / creation by the founders of the Protestant religions.

 

[Quantrill]

I know of only one "Christian" who goes along with this charade: you.

An opinion based upon nothing. If you have something to offer that answers my questions, then by all means offer it.

Was the letter of Aristeas fraudulent or not? Where are the manuscripts that this supposed Septuagint are translated from? Where is the oldest copy of the Septuagint?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

This isn't rocket surgery...

The 66-book canon exists because the progenitors of the various Protestant religions created it.

Once again, there is no church in Christian history which ever had or used a 66-book canon. None. Nada. Zilch. The 66-book canon was a novel innovation / creation by the founders of the Protestant religions.

And because it exists, it is part of Church History. Again, when did Church history end?

Quantrill

 

[Walpole]

And because it exists, it is part of Church History. Again, when did Church history end?

Quantrill

Again, this is not rocket surgery...

The 66-book canon was a novel innovation born with the advent of Protestantism. It was invented by the progenitors of the various Protestant religions.

You cannot find a single church in all of history which ever had or used a 66-book canon. None. Nada. Zilch.

Two posters in this thread tried to claim there was a 66-book canon proclaimed by the Third Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. and by Athanasius in his 39th Festal Letter. These assertions were both refuted...

---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...ch-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/post-1595037

---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...ch-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/post-1595042


Now, if you think there existed a 66-book canon ever used or held by ANY CHURCH prior to the progenitors of the Protestant religions inventing it out of thin air, by all means post your evidence.

 

[OzSpen]

It is not the view of most of Christianity. I am always amazed at how Christians go along with this charade.

Quantrill

I beg your pardon!

 

[jaybo]

An opinion based upon nothing. If you have something to offer that answers my questions, then by all means offer it.

Was the letter of Aristeas fraudulent or not? Where are the manuscripts that this supposed Septuagint are translated from? Where is the oldest copy of the Septuagint?

Quantrill

ignored

 

[jaybo]

Again, this is not rocket surgery...

The 66-book canon was a novel innovation born with the advent of Protestantism. It was invented by the progenitors of the various Protestant religions.

You cannot find a single church in all of history which ever had or used a 66-book canon. None. Nada. Zilch.

Two posters in this thread tried to claim there was a 66-book canon proclaimed by the Third Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. and by Athanasius in his 39th Festal Letter. These assertions were both refuted...

---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...ch-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/post-1595037

---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...ch-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/post-1595042


Now, if you think there existed a 66-book canon ever used or held by ANY CHURCH prior to the progenitors of the Protestant religions inventing it out of thin air, by all means post your evidence.

So, according to your (flawed) thinking, one cannot find a single Protestant church among "the various Protestant religions" that incorporate the 66 "books" that comprise our Bible. Really? May I ask what planet you're living on?

I challenge you to go to any "bookstore" -- Amazon is a good start -- and browse through the various published Bibles. You will find that the great majority of them contain -- ready? -- 66 "books". There may be some that contain the Apocrypha -- additional "books" -- but that doesn't invalidate the rest.

IOW, your premise is faulty.

 

[jaybo]

Again, this is not rocket surgery...

The 66-book canon was a novel innovation born with the advent of Protestantism. It was invented by the progenitors of the various Protestant religions.

You cannot find a single church in all of history which ever had or used a 66-book canon. None. Nada. Zilch.

Two posters in this thread tried to claim there was a 66-book canon proclaimed by the Third Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. and by Athanasius in his 39th Festal Letter. These assertions were both refuted...

---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...ch-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/post-1595037

---> https://christianforums.net/Fellows...ch-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/post-1595042


Now, if you think there existed a 66-book canon ever used or held by ANY CHURCH prior to the progenitors of the Protestant religions inventing it out of thin air, by all means post your evidence.

What in the world is "rocket surgery"? Is that some cure for adhering to an unsubstantiated paradigm?

 

[Walpole]

So, according to your (flawed) thinking, one cannot find a single Protestant church among "the various Protestant religions" that incorporate the 66 "books" that comprise our Bible. Really? May I ask what planet you're living on?

I challenge you to go to any "bookstore" -- Amazon is a good start -- and browse through the various published Bibles. You will find that the great majority of them contain -- ready? -- 66 "books". There may be some that contain the Apocrypha -- additional "books" -- but that doesn't invalidate the rest.

IOW, your premise is faulty.

Straw man.

Please focus on my actual position. It is stated in just about every post I have made in this thread...

—-> The 66-book canon was a novel innovation born with the advent of Protestantism. It was invented by the progenitors of the various Protestant religions.

—-> If you think there existed a 66-book canon ever used or held by ANY CHURCH prior to the progenitors of the Protestant religions inventing it out of thin air, by all means post your evidence.

 

[Walpole]

What in the world is "rocket surgery"? Is that some cure for adhering to an unsubstantiated paradigm?

It's a malapropism.

For someone who was done with me, you seem to keep coming back. I’ll take that as a good sign.

 

[jaybo]

Straw man.

Please focus on my actual position. It is stated in just about every post I have made in this thread...

—-> The 66-book canon was a novel innovation born with the advent of Protestantism. It was invented by the progenitors of the various Protestant religions.

—-> If you think there existed a 66-book canon ever used or held by ANY CHURCH prior to the progenitors of the Protestant religions inventing it out of thin air, by all means post your evidence.

WHO CARES? You're going on and on and on and on about one minor issue. Is it to make yourself justified in your own mind? The Protestant canon has 66 books. Deal with it!

 

[Walpole]

WHO CARES? You're going on and on and on and on about one minor issue. Is it to make yourself justified in your own mind? The Protestant canon has 66 books. Deal with it!

Perhaps you forgot what thread you are participating in?

The Thread ---> "Which Bible is the true Bible?"

The OP ---> https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/which-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/


My posts relate to both the title and the OP.

 

[jaybo]

Perhaps you forgot what thread you are participating in?

The Thread ---> "Which Bible is the true Bible?"

The OP ---> https://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/which-bible-is-the-true-bible.84157/


My posts relate to both the title and the OP.

No, you're going on and on and on and on about the 66-book canon being a Protestant invention. Enough already!

The OP is about the differences between the "books" included in the Greek Orthodox Bible, the Catholic Bible, the Protestant Bible, and the Anglican Bible.

If you would like to discuss the OP subject then go for it. To refresh your memory, it says "I find it disheartening that there are so many versions of the Bible out there, all with different books in them, making it virtually impossible for a Christian to determine which is the true Bible and inspired word of God." You haven't answered the question!!

But please, no more about the Protestant Bible containing 66 books. Everybody knows that so stop repeating the same mantra over and over and over!!