Who Accepts Whom?

[Adullam]

That's not correct. Paul makes this argument in Romans 4. Justification of anyone comes through faith in God. No one is justified "by the Law". The example he uses to defend his position is of Abram, who was justified BEFORE the law was given to Moses. Men are justified through faith in God, not by works of a Law.

Regards

That's faithfulness as well as faith. "The just (justified) will live because they are (have been) faithful."

Very often in the NT the word "faith" is better translated as faithful. Faithfulness gives the idea of a lasting obedience...a permanent condition...and this is a better way of understanding what causes our justification in the eyes of God.

We too often substitute "faith" with "belief". But belief gives us no allusion to faithfulness. So the biblical word "pistis" should always be looked upon as the dual "faith/faithfulness" Only then do we get the true idea of what is meant by being justified by faith (faithfulness).

 

[Jake]

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

The root of 4102/pistis ("faith") is 3982/peithô ("to persuade, be persuaded") which supplies the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).
Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.

 

[francisdesales]

That's faithfulness as well as faith. "The just (justified) will live because they are (have been) faithful."

Very often in the NT the word "faith" is better translated as faithful. Faithfulness gives the idea of a lasting obedience...a permanent condition...and this is a better way of understanding what causes our justification in the eyes of God.

We too often substitute "faith" with "belief". But belief gives us no allusion to faithfulness. So the biblical word "pistis" should always be looked upon as the dual "faith/faithfulness" Only then do we get the true idea of what is meant by being justified by faith (faithfulness).

Yes, you are correct, I am defining "faith" the OT way, the "walking from faith to faith", not just an intellectual belief, as in James. Abram believed in God AND acted - and was declared righteous.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Short Definition: faith, belief, trust
Definition: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

The root of 4102/pistis ("faith") is 3982/peithô ("to persuade, be persuaded") which supplies the core-meaning of faith ("divine persuasion"). It is God's warranty that guarantees the fulfillment of the revelation He births within the receptive believer (cf. 1 Jn 5:4 with Heb 11:1).
Faith (4102/pistis) is always received from God, and never generated by us.

If you think that the Sacred Scriptures only declare that God has a monergistic relationship with man, that man just sits back passively while God does everything, you are mistaken. There is a cooperation between God and man that remains mysterious. Scriptures make that point that there is a synergy between God and man - man is not merely passive. It is God's Will that man does respond to God's grace. Scriptures such as these:

He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:11-12

Here, it is man making the decision to receive the gift of God to believe - a gift given by God. These Scriptures cannot be simply ignored to make way for Monergism. There is a relationship between God and man, and man is expected to respond with the gifts of grace he has been given.

Regards

 

[Jake]

If you think that the Sacred Scriptures only declare that God has a monergistic relationship with man, that man just sits back passively while God does everything, you are mistaken. There is a cooperation between God and man that remains mysterious. Scriptures make that point that there is a synergy between God and man - man is not merely passive. It is God's Will that man does respond to God's grace. Scriptures such as these:

He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:11-12

Here, it is man making the decision to receive the gift of God to believe - a gift given by God. These Scriptures cannot be simply ignored to make way for Monergism. There is a relationship between God and man, and man is expected to respond with the gifts of grace he has been given.

Regards

No, I do not believe what you think I do. Faith w/out works is dead. There are many "if" statements in the Word that makes it conditional, it's a covenant, God does His part and we do ours.

But then again, the Word does say we are chosen, predestined, yet if someone honestly came to God and 1). repented 2). baptized then God would not turn him away, would He?

 

[Adullam]

Yes, you are correct, I am defining "faith" the OT way, the "walking from faith to faith", not just an intellectual belief, as in James. Abram believed in God AND acted - and was declared righteous.

Regards

Could we then say that going "from faith to faith" which is "from pistis to pistis" actually is describing the faith/faithfulness definition...as in going from an immediate faith to a long term faithfulness!

 

[francisdesales]

Could we then say that going "from faith to faith" which is "from pistis to pistis" actually is describing the faith/faithfulness definition...as in going from an immediate faith to a long term faithfulness!

Agreed :yes

 

[francisdesales]

No, I do not believe what you think I do.

I wasn't sure, so I began with the "If" statement...

Faith w/out works is dead. There are many "if" statements in the Word that makes it conditional, it's a covenant, God does His part and we do ours.

Good to hear, we seem to be on the same page there!

But then again, the Word does say we are chosen, predestined, yet if someone honestly came to God and 1). repented 2). baptized then God would not turn him away, would He?

Agreed - and I could not comprehend how God would turn anyone away who responded to His gifts as you describe.

Regards

 

[Adullam]

Jesus Christ is GOD"S sacrifice not ours. He is the Lamb of God...not the Lamb of men! So it is not we who accept a sacrifice or not. That would make us god! Rather it is STILL God who accepts our response or not. The NT is a means of offering a holy sacrifice through Christ. God does this. THEN, we offer ourselves as a holy sacrifice to contain the resurrection life that follows the divine sacrifice. Anybody can "accept" a sacrifice for their own sins...that is self-serving. But who cannot handle the resurrection! Unless we live in HIS resurrection life, the sacrifice is pointless and we are still as dead in our sins as before the sacrifice.:nod

 

[Jennie]

Hello, guys.
I am new her and wonder if I could ask a few questions?
Francis, whenyou say "justify", does this mean the same thing as "righteous"?

And adullam, I think I understand why you say "faith" should not really always be translated as "belief", because I see what people do with this and it bothers me too. But also, for me, it is just as easy to use the word belief because they say they believe in Jesus but then do not do what He said todo.
IF they were speaking honestly when they say they believe, they WOULD do what He said, wouldn't they?

Did Adam and Eve believe God? Did they have faith in what God said? Obviousy not, or they would not have done what He said would kill them.

If there is a bag of potato chips on the counter and I tell you that tou will die if you eat them with a very strong warning and you then go and eat them after I leave, did you have faith in my words or believe what I said? No, you didn't because if you did you would not have done what you did. You maybe said, oh she was not serious. She just wants them for herself, or some other reasoning, right?

The problem with the term used is not so important as if someone is being truthful when using the term. IMO. But what do you think?

And then, as for the word "accept", I have an opinion on that as well.
When they say they have accepted Him, they are not being truthful if they then do not do what He says. How do you accept a man when you do not accept what He says?

But then, these are our struggles, aren't they? With fear and trembling, we each work them out with Him - His words - and come to acceptance of them as we can bear.

 

[Adullam]

Hello, guys.
I am new her and wonder if I could ask a few questions?
Francis, whenyou say "justify", does this mean the same thing as "righteous"?

And adullam, I think I understand why you say "faith" should not really always be translated as "belief", because I see what people do with this and it bothers me too. But also, for me, it is just as easy to use the word belief because they say they believe in Jesus but then do not do what He said todo.
IF they were speaking honestly when they say they believe, they WOULD do what He said, wouldn't they?

Did Adam and Eve believe God? Did they have faith in what God said? Obviousy not, or they would not have done what He said would kill them.

If there is a bag of potato chips on the counter and I tell you that tou will die if you eat them with a very strong warning and you then go and eat them after I leave, did you have faith in my words or believe what I said? No, you didn't because if you did you would not have done what you did. You maybe said, oh she was not serious. She just wants them for herself, or some other reasoning, right?

The problem with the term used is not so important as if someone is being truthful when using the term. IMO. But what do you think?

And then, as for the word "accept", I have an opinion on that as well.
When they say they have accepted Him, they are not being truthful if they then do not do what He says. How do you accept a man when you do not accept what He says?

But then, these are our struggles, aren't they? With fear and trembling, we each work them out with Him - His words - and come to acceptance of them as we can bear.

Good thoughts Jennie! I think what people nowadays are taught is that they need to just accept that Jesus died for them. They call this...saving knowledge!

It's like... Jesus died for all those who say AYE! All those in favour say AYE!

So it is men who are declaring themselves saved. This is self-righteous! Are you saved? they ask!

But this huge door of salvation goes against the teachings of Christ. He says the way is narrow and difficult.

Not so says the modern preacher! Just accept and receive!

So the multitudes are taking over the church, and the disciples are ridiculed and sent packing.

So the church meets together outside the camp in order to follow Christ anf the way to glory!


There is no talk of the resurrection anymore. Resurrection life!!!! That is the life we are being conformed to! We die in order for Christ to live in us!

People seem happy with a super-sacrifice that covers their every sin. Super-size me!

 

[Bonairos]

Israel is a matter of God choosing a NATION . . .

I agree and would take it one step further. God chose a man and out of that man's loins came forth a nation.

If Abraham was a Filipino, guess what nation might be the apple of His eye?!

To think, the difference one person can make when absolutely surrendered to God.

How awesome is that?!


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Jennie]

Good thoughts Jennie! I think what people nowadays are taught is that they need to just accept that Jesus died for them. They call this...saving knowledge!

It's like... Jesus died for all those who say AYE! All those in favour say AYE!

So it is men who are declaring themselves saved. This is self-righteous! Are you saved? they ask!

But this huge door of salvation goes against the teachings of Christ. He says the way is narrow and difficult.

Not so says the modern preacher! Just accept and receive!

So the multitudes are taking over the church, and the disciples are ridiculed and sent packing.

So the church meets together outside the camp in order to follow Christ anf the way to glory!


There is no talk of the resurrection anymore. Resurrection life!!!! That is the life we are being conformed to! We die in order for Christ to live in us!

People seem happy with a super-sacrifice that covers their every sin. Super-size me!

Yes.
They love to hear this kind of preaching because they find it pleasant and gracious and they do not have to FOLLOW Him. It reminds me of a verse about looking for teachers who soothe their itchy ears.

But no one seems to take ALL of the verses into account. They only want the ones that they find very agreeable and pleasant to them but they do not want the whole counsel.

It is terrifying to me that their teachers..........wait! - it just now occurs to me that this is the reason for divisions and arguments...!! Oh wow...not taking the entire counsel but only pieces of it...this is why we are so divided!

 

[Adullam]

Yes.
They love to hear this kind of preaching because they find it pleasant and gracious and they do not have to FOLLOW Him. It reminds me of a verse about looking for teachers who soothe their itchy ears.

But no one seems to take ALL of the verses into account. They only want the ones that they find very agreeable and pleasant to them but they do not want the whole counsel.

It is terrifying to me that their teachers..........wait! - it just now occurs to me that this is the reason for divisions and arguments...!! Oh wow...not taking the entire counsel but only pieces of it...this is why we are so divided!

That is an explanation that I can accept!

 

[Sam21]

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


I am His kid i have been adopted and i am still flesh and blood. All according to His will

In the old days I used to go to churches where people would stand and give their testimony,some would be about how they were saved, would it be asking too much to ask you to give your personal testimony of how you were saved?

 

[reba]

Sam, I kinda think testimonys fit the OP!

I was blessed to be born to a Bible School student. Dad was a AofG pastor for about 50 years... Not denying dad had faults but he was the most Christ like man i have ever known. Small town preacher, times we literally lived in the churches.

So i grew up with Biblical knowledge, head and heart, just part of everyday life. We did not have The Little Golden Books we had Bible stories..

I was the classic PK ! I can still hear mom trying to tell me about THE GREAT TRIBULATION and how i did want to be RAPTURED! I explained to mom i could live as I wanted and then die a quick death for Jesus, in the trib and see them in Heaven....

Got married, by the age of 20 had a couple kids, knew they needed Sunday School. Lots of little things jumped out at me about the same time....

At one point I was setting on the couch reading Cross and the Switchblade. Dave Wilkerson was introducing Nicky Cruz in the book as Billy Graham was introducing Nicky on the TV. It was like being slapped up side the head.

Tears, shame, regrets .. Lord Jesus if you love this brat kid enough to make me feel your draw this strong i give up.... I know lots of other folks saw Billy G that night but it was special to me... God really does love even me ..

When i look back at my life i can see His hand. I can see the times He saved me from myself. He never leaves us or forsakes us.


So Sam thats my little story how about you? I see you are asking this around the boards.

 

[Eventide]

I agree and would take it one step further. God chose a man and out of that man's loins came forth a nation.

If Abraham was a Filipino, guess what nation might be the apple of His eye?!

We could speculate all day, although Abram was told to leave his land and to go to the place that the Lord showed him..

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee...

...

And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land..

To think, the difference one person can make when absolutely surrendered to God.

How awesome is that?!

Very awesome !

 

[Sam21]

Sam, I kinda think testimonys fit the OP!

I was blessed to be born to a Bible School student. Dad was a AofG pastor for about 50 years... Not denying dad had faults but he was the most Christ like man i have ever known. Small town preacher, times we literally lived in the churches.

So i grew up with Biblical knowledge, head and heart, just part of everyday life. We did not have The Little Golden Books we had Bible stories..

I was the classic PK ! I can still hear mom trying to tell me about THE GREAT TRIBULATION and how i did want to be RAPTURED! I explained to mom i could live as I wanted and then die a quick death for Jesus, in the trib and see them in Heaven....

Got married, by the age of 20 had a couple kids, knew they needed Sunday School. Lots of little things jumped out at me about the same time....

At one point I was setting on the couch reading Cross and the Switchblade. Dave Wilkerson was introducing Nicky Cruz in the book as Billy Graham was introducing Nicky on the TV. It was like being slapped up side the head.

Tears, shame, regrets .. Lord Jesus if you love this brat kid enough to make me feel your draw this strong i give up.... I know lots of other folks saw Billy G that night but it was special to me... God really does love even me ..

When i look back at my life i can see His hand. I can see the times He saved me from myself. He never leaves us or forsakes us.


So Sam thats my little story how about you? I see you are asking this around the boards.

I was not raised in church,never read a bible,but was invited to a small church for an evening service(I was not quite 14). The preacher spoke of Heaven and hell and that God sent us His Son to save us,I did not really understand. The preacher then said for each of us(all 15)to bow our heads and ask God what He wanted us to do. When I did this I was immediately engulfed in intense love and God began to speak very clearly to my mind,the first thing He said was"you must accept My Son as your Saviour". The Lord went on to explain to me that in my present condition I was headed for hell and that in order to be saved I needed to commit my life totally to God and ask Jesus to be my Saviour and do it before the church(public). The Lord probably talked to me altogether maybe an hour and to make a long story short I finally did what He told me to do. The next day I got up and was running down the hill from our house(school had not started yet)and the Lord begin to speak from my lower chest area and He was saying over and over,you are My child and I love you. After my conversion experience at the name of Jesus fountains of love would come up from my inner most being. At that time I did not even know those things were in the bible,having never read the bible. I never read the bible for several years until after I had left home, I was kept by the Holy Spirit during that time. While I am on the Holy Spirit, the Lord told me early on that you never,never,never,change the scriptures even if they don't make sense.

 

[Jennie]

I was not raised in church,never read a bible,but was invited to a small church for an evening service(I was not quite 14). The preacher spoke of Heaven and hell and that God sent us His Son to save us,I did not really understand. The preacher then said for each of us(all 15)to bow our heads and ask God what He wanted us to do. When I did this I was immediately engulfed in intense love and God began to speak very clearly to my mind,the first thing He said was"you must accept My Son as your Saviour". The Lord went on to explain to me that in my present condition I was headed for hell and that in order to be saved I needed to commit my life totally to God and ask Jesus to be my Saviour and do it before the church(public). The Lord probably talked to me altogether maybe an hour and to make a long story short I finally did what He told me to do. The next day I got up and was running down the hill from our house(school had not started yet)and the Lord begin to speak from my lower chest area and He was saying over and over,you are My child and I love you. After my conversion experience at the name of Jesus fountains of love would come up from my inner most being. At that time I did not even know those things were in the bible,having never read the bible. I never read the bible for several years until after I had left home, I was kept by the Holy Spirit during that time. While I am on the Holy Spirit, the Lord told me early on that you never,never,never,change the scriptures even if they don't make sense.

Oh, Sam!!
Thank you for this post!!
The only problem I am having with it is that it was not long enough!!!