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When we speak of the Bible, we go to a much higher level than what you posted. Here is a shortened version of the 1978 Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy

A Short Statement
1. God, who is Himself Truth and speaks truth only, has inspired Holy Scripture in order thereby to reveal Himself to lost mankind through Jesus Christ as Creator and Lord, Redeemer and Judge. Holy Scripture is God's witness to Himself.

2. Holy Scripture, being God's own Word, written by men prepared and superintended by His Spirit, is of infallible divine authority in all matters upon which it touches: it is to be believed, as God's instruction, in all that it affirms: obeyed, as God's command, in all that it requires; embraced, as God's pledge, in all that it promises.

3. The Holy Spirit, Scripture's divine Author, both authenticates it to us by His inward witness and opens our minds to understand its meaning.

4. Being wholly and verbally God-given, Scripture is without error or fault in all its teaching, no less in what it states about God's acts in creation, about the events of world history, and about its own literary origins under God, than in its witness to God's saving grace in individual lives.

5. The authority of Scripture is inescapably impaired if this total divine inerrancy is in any way limited or disregarded, or made relative to a view of truth contrary to the Bible's own; and such lapses bring serious loss to both the individual and the Church.


Articles of Affirmation and Denial
Article I.
WE AFFIRM that the Holy Scriptures are to be received as the authoritative Word of God.

WE DENY that the Scriptures receive their authority from the Church, tradition, or any other human source.

Article II.
WE AFFIRM that the Scriptures are the supreme written norm by which God binds the conscience, and that the authority of the Church is subordinate to that of Scripture.

WE DENY that Church creeds, councils, or declarations have authority greater than or equal to the authority of the Bible.

Article III.
WE AFFIRM that the written Word in its entirety is revelation given by God.

WE DENY that the Bible is merely a witness to revelation, or only becomes revelation in encounter, or depends on the responses of men for its validity.
from http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html
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These (and the rest of the 19 articles in total that follow) have been definitive for the Evangelical community believing in the plenary and accuracy of the Scriptures on the matters which it speaks. Using the example of your words above "It doesn't say "all scripture is dictated by God." " since the Bible NEVER uses the terms such as you suggest, "dictated by God" it is logically impossible to establish either a positive or a negative from a negative statement. In other words, "prove to me that I did not steal the cookie from the cookie jar."

The last three paragraphs of the exposition section read as follows, and I believe that they are quite significant.

In our affirmation of the authority of Scripture as involving its total truth, we are consciously standing with Christ and His apostles, indeed with the whole Bible and with the main stream of Church history from the first days until very recently. We are concerned at the casual, inadvertent, and seemingly thoughtless way in which a belief of such far-reaching importance has been given up by so many in our day.

We are conscious too that great and grave confusion results from ceasing to maintain the total truth of the Bible whose authority one professes to acknowledge. The result of taking this step is that the Bible which God gave loses its authority, and what has authority instead is a Bible reduced in content according to the demands of one's critical reasonings and in principle reducible still further once one has started. This means that at bottom independent reason now has authority, as opposed to Scriptural teaching. If this is not seen and if for the time being basic evangelical doctrines are still held, persons denying the full truth of Scripture may claim an evangelical identity while methodologically they have moved away from the evangelical principle of knowledge to an unstable subjectivism, and will find it hard not to move further.

We affirm that what Scripture says, God says. May He be glorified. Amen and Amen.
One unique thing about this board is that saying "You are wrong" is severely frowned upon because everyone has a right to believe as they wish, but that position does permit questioning others, and rational discussion of ideas.

Therefore, I ask you to consider the things that Jesus said about the Scriptures, especially when He said that "not one jot or tittel will be broken..."

When the long-forgotten scroll of the Pentateuch was discovered in the Temple, why was there a subsequent fasting and period of mourning when they read it if God's hand did not write that (not in the literal sense, of course)?

Why was it necessary for both Mark and Matthew to make two exactly accurate genealogies of Mary and Joseph?

Why was it necessary to establish that there were two independent witnesses of the circumcision of Jesus?

Why was it necessary for the prophet Isaiah to say to the scoffing and ungodly king Ahaz that the proof that not one arrow would fall in Jerusalem that "a virgin shall conceive"?

Isaiah 7: 9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.
10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. [the prophet told him to ask ANYTHING from God as a sign]
12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. [this is a false piety because he was the greatest king in terms of evil, ever in history. His wife was the infamous Jezebel]
13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.

Yes, I had to get Christmas here!

But these questions are not just "pricks in your side" they are designed to have you look at Scripture to see if the things mentioned in it are indeed so. the Bereans did that, and they were commended for that by Paul.

Ultimately, you need to ask yourself, "Is my belief congruent to or in opposition to what Jesus taught, what the Apostles taught, and what indeed the Bible itself teaches? The things in the Bible are put there for a reason, and IMHO it is vitally important to discover why God put them in the first place.
Thank you By Grace.
We all need to be reminded of this from time to time.
It's especially good for those who don't know it.
And a great rebuttal for those who don't believe it.
 
By Grace:

Well then, where to start. I'll start with this. I reject the Chicago statement. There are several places where I immediately take issue, so I'll expand on them.

"WE AFFIRM that the doctrine of inerrancy has been integral to the Church's faith throughout its history.
WE DENY that inerrancy is a doctrine invented by scholastic Protestantism, or is a reactionary position postulated in response to negative higher criticism."

This statement is outright false. Early Church fathers did not necessarily interpret places like Genesis literally and can be found on record saying that it's okay to disagree on the matter. Source and Source St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas both asserted that literal 7 day creation may not be the case...and they were well before the scientific revolution. There were other church fathers who were idealists more than literalists. These people were not dismissed as heretics, in fact they were canonized! To say that inerrancy is integral to the Church's faith is utterly false.

"WE DENY that Church creeds, councils, or declarations have authority greater than or equal to the authority of the Bible"

So I have a question. How do you explain the fact that during the Protestant reformation, 7 books of the Bible were cut out of the Catholic canon? Martin Luther actually cut a few more (but we still have them). So what prompted these decisions? The Bible itself didn't say so. In fact, the Bible doesn't even refer to itself as "the Bible". So who decided what books should go in there and why did they do so? What about the council of Nicaea (pretty sure that's the one) where these things were discussed. That's a council. This statement contradicts itself.

"WE AFFIRM that a person is not dependent for understanding of Scripture on the expertise of biblical scholars. WE DENY that a person should ignore the fruits of the technical study of Scripture by biblical scholars"

This is also false. If someone were to pick up a Bible in the wilderness and read it cover to cover, they would come up with a completely different interpretation from what most of us would. The modern Church and all its denominations are based on a couple thousand years of theological thought and debate. This is "The Holy Spirit in the gaps" and doesn't fit with the fact that there are a large number of Christian organizations with different beliefs. You also have to avoid circular logic by asserting that the Bible says the Holy Spirit fills its gaps. One is dependent on biblical scholars...and yet in the same statement, they're talking about how we shouldn't ignore scholars. Which one is it? Further, if the Holy Spirit needs to help us understand the Bible, then it's obviously not literally true, is it? Literally true should mean very easy to understand, not requiring aid.

"WE DENY that it is proper to evaluate Scripture according to standards of truth and error that are alien to its usage or purpose. We further deny that inerrancy is negated by Biblical phenomena such as a lack of modern technical precision, irregularities of grammar or spelling, observational descriptions of nature, the reporting of falsehoods, the use of hyperbole and round numbers, the topical arrangement of material, variant selections of material in parallel accounts, or the use of free citations."

That statement isn't even literalism. You're denying inerrancy there because inerrancy LITERALLY means nothing errant AT ALL.

"Then he made the sea of cast metal. It was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference." -1 Kings 7:23

So pi = 3?

Have I mentioned the fact that Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other? In Genesis 1, God forms the vegetation on the third day (verse 11) and Adam on the sixth (verse 27). In Genesis 2, God makes Adam (verse 7) at a time when there is no vegetation (verse 5). So which is right? What about this: In Genesis 1, God makes the land animals (verse 24) before he makes Adam. In Genesis 2, God makes the land animals (verse 19) after he makes Adam. Can you please explain these contradictions?

"WE DENY that such confession [of Biblical inerrancy] is necessary for salvation."

There is an implicit assumption from EVERY SINGLE individual that believes in Bible inerrancy that if you don't believe the Bible is inerrant (and therefore agree with their doctrine) that you won't be saved. Here's the Chicago statement commentary on that statement:

"The following Statement affirms this inerrancy of Scripture afresh, making clear our understanding of it and warning against its denial. We are persuaded that to deny it is to set aside the witness of Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit and to refuse that submission to the claims of God's own Word which marks true Christian faith."

That's a subtle, veiled comment that contradicts their own statement.

I could go on with my direct objections...but I think this is enough for now.

The virgin conception was a prophecy and was accurate and also clearly written that it's directly from God. I don't deny that. One small piece being from God doesn't mean the whole thing has to literally be from God.
 
This statement of yours tells us much:

The virgin conception was a prophecy and was accurate and also clearly written that it's directly from God. I don't deny that. One small piece being from God doesn't mean the whole thing has to literally be from God.


Ultimately, you need to ask yourself, "Is my belief congruent to or in opposition to what Jesus taught, what the Apostles taught, and what indeed the Bible itself teaches? The things in the Bible are put there for a reason, and IMHO it is vitally important to discover why God put them in the first place.
 
This statement of yours tells us much:




Ultimately, you need to ask yourself, "Is my belief congruent to or in opposition to what Jesus taught, what the Apostles taught, and what indeed the Bible itself teaches? The things in the Bible are put there for a reason, and IMHO it is vitally important to discover why God put them in the first place.

There's still an implicit assumption that I'm telling you things contrary to what Jesus and the apostles and the Bible taught. That isn't true.

Please address my contentions.
 
This thread topic is.....

"You ought to be good".
This is a prescriptive idea.
How can we measure the truth against an idea?


If you wish to discuss Biblical Inerrancy please start another thread...
This is the last warning to stay on topic ....
 
MY REPLIES TO TRISTAN MOVED TO HERE


You can remove the last two posts of mine because I used them as starting thread posts.
thanks.

I see that you "tagged" my thread. What does tagging do, actually? Is it like getting a lump of coal in my stocking on Christmas morning? :hysterical
 
This thread topic is.....

"You ought to be good".
This is a prescriptive idea.
How can we measure the truth against an idea?


If you wish to discuss Biblical Inerrancy please start another thread...
This is the last warning to stay on topic ....
There is a measure of truth in what Reba says here.
But I also believe that this is her idea.
How does that work, for or against the OP?
 
"You ought to be good".
This is a prescriptive idea.
How can we measure the truth against an idea?

If it's okay to simply this to terms simpletons like myself can address, I'd focus on the question of: Why should we be good?

There are a number of reasons why it's accepted that people ought to be good with perhaps the chief reason being the pressures and expectations of the society in which each person lives. Society has a way of dictating which behaviors are rewarded and reinforced as well as which behaviors are frowned upon and potentially punishable.

I know my response may oversimplify things because I didn't even bother to delve into the meaning of "good".
 
"You ought to be good".
This is a prescriptive idea.
How can we measure the truth against an idea?

1 John 4
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


soapbox.gif

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Luke 18:19 19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
Good is grounded in the very nature of God,and what He wills is good.This good God invites everyone to taste and to see that the Lord is good Psalm 34:8

What is the "good" you are talking about?
How does a person determine what is good and what is bad?
 
Luke 18:19 19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
Good is grounded in the very nature of God,and what He wills is good.This good God invites everyone to taste and to see that the Lord is good Psalm 34:8

What is the "good" you are talking about?
How does a person determine what is good and what is bad?
Eugene answered this in post #2.
He used a descriptive statement to answer a prescriptive idea.
He measures it by the Word of God.
 
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