Bible Study Who Can Lay This To 'REST'??

[Elijah674]

Some seem to think that they are to be spirits floating around on a cloud strumming a harp???
And that there will be NO FLESH OR BLOOD IN HEAVEN?? Or is it to be, no sinful (decayed) flesh & blood in heaven? Like Adam & Eve before sin & then after sin?

When Christ comes, some truly will [not be like Him!] For they will die the second death. They will come out of the grave just as decayed as they went into it!
But the others will be like Him!

Thomas decided that Christ was real!! (finally, huh?) See John 20:26-29. And it says that Christ ate fish & bread after being resurrected. John 21:13-14.

And John 24:37.. "And they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And He said unto them, Why are yea troubled and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; [for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as yea see that I have.]"

And these 'seen' in Matt. 27:52-53? Notice the Word of [Bodies!]
"And the graves were opened; and many [bodies] of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves [after the resurrection], and went *into holy city, and [APPEARED unto many]." (I supposed that, that is where the devil had Halloween start from)

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the son's of God, and it doeth not yet appear what we will shall be: but we know that, [when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is]." Both of whom we call the Father & the Son, [had an image,] at Adams creation. And the Word of God states that God is a Spirit! Also, that this [He,] is referred to as the Holy Ghost & the Holy Spirit. John 15 & 16.


Notice Isaiah 66: 22-23 In the New Earth! We shall be Sabbath Keepers! And in verse 15-17 we see some who will not be there! No, no spirits in hell either! See Obad. 16 for these d-e-a-d ones!

Yet, notice chapter 65:21-25 ibid! and read verse 21-23 in particular! Build Houses and inhabit them! And plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them! And notice this!! 'Mine elect [shall long enjoy the *WORK of their hands]."

Whatever? Float around if that is your thing. Yet, that is not the Everlasting Gospel!! Rev. 14:6

But yes, one can be sure that we will have a body made like Adam & Eve had at the beginning, before sin! If we come forth in the First Resurrection! Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15.

---Elijah




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​

 

[Nathan]

Do you suppose we will build them? Or will they be built?

 

[warhorse]

Some seem to think that they are to be spirits floating around on a cloud strumming a harp???
And that there will be NO FLESH OR BLOOD IN HEAVEN?? Or is it to be, no sinful (decayed) flesh & blood in heaven? Like Adam & Eve before sin & then after sin?

When Christ comes, some truly will [not be like Him!] For they will die the second death. They will come out of the grave just as decayed as they went into it!
But the others will be like Him!

Thomas decided that Christ was real!! (finally, huh?) See John 20:26-29. And it says that Christ ate fish & bread after being resurrected. John 21:13-14.

And John 24:37.. "And they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And He said unto them, Why are yea troubled and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; [for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as yea see that I have.]"

And these 'seen' in Matt. 27:52-53? Notice the Word of [Bodies!]
"And the graves were opened; and many [bodies] of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves [after the resurrection], and went *into holy city, and [APPEARED unto many]." (I supposed that, that is where the devil had Halloween start from)

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the son's of God, and it doeth not yet appear what we will shall be: but we know that, [when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is]." Both of whom we call the Father & the Son, [had an image,] at Adams creation. And the Word of God states that God is a Spirit! Also, that this [He,] is referred to as the Holy Ghost & the Holy Spirit. John 15 & 16.


Notice Isaiah 66: 22-23 In the New Earth! We shall be Sabbath Keepers! And in verse 15-17 we see some who will not be there! No, no spirits in hell either! See Obad. 16 for these d-e-a-d ones!

Yet, notice chapter 65:21-25 ibid! and read verse 21-23 in particular! Build Houses and inhabit them! And plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them! And notice this!! 'Mine elect [shall long enjoy the *WORK of their hands]."

Whatever? Float around if that is your thing. Yet, that is not the Everlasting Gospel!! Rev. 14:6

But yes, one can be sure that we will have a body made like Adam & Eve had at the beginning, before sin! If we come forth in the First Resurrection! Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15.

---Elijah




​

​

Agreed Romans 6v22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our BODY.

 

[Elijah674]

Do you suppose we will build them? Or will they be built?

Surely! The whole chapter is vital of Isa 65. But Josh needs to note the 'six' days of this work!;) Pluss chapter 66:22-23 Sabbath Worship! AndYOU NEED TO BELIEVE the 15-17 verses as well!

Isa, 65
[17] For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[18] But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

[19] And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

[20] There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

(we find in Rev. 21 that there is a Heavenly City for Worship + a New Earth with our country home)

[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

 

[Elijah674]

Surely! The whole chapter is vital of Isa 65. But Josh needs to note the 'six' days of this work!;) Pluss chapter 66:22-23 Sabbath Worship! AndYOU NEED TO BELIEVE the 15-17 verses as well!

Isa, 65
[17] For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[18] But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

[19] And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

[20] There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

(we find in Rev. 21 that there is a Heavenly City for Worship + a New Earth with our country home)

[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

I find it easy to believe that this New Heavens + Earth are spoken of seperately. And the City & our weekly abode also seperated by 'time!' And where the Ciry 'Light' comes from! Along with the empty earth with NO MAN untile the wicked have their resurection.

Rev.21
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
....
[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
....
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
....
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
[23] And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

[24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
[25] And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

[26] And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
[27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

It is factual that these will be non lieing Commandments keepers there!;) Not 2 Cor. 4:2 ones, huh?

 

[Nathan]

When He says a child will die a hundred years old, what does that mean? If there is do death there, how can a child die?

 

[Elijah674]

When He says a child will die a hundred years old, what does that mean? If there is do death there, how can a child die?

Are you playing games with me?;) Do you really think that Christ's remark of the Mark 9:44-48 worm's as really haveing immortality in an eternal hell???????

Likewise, a figure of speech is called a metaphor.

And by the way. My computor has some problems with inmail & outmail.

 

[Nathan]

Are you playing games with me?;) Do you really think that Christ's remark of the Mark 9:44-48 worm's as really haveing immortality in an eternal hell???????

Likewise, a figure of speech is called a metaphor.

And by the way. My computor has some problems with inmail & outmail.

No games. Serious question. I understand as you about 'eternal' hell.

I wondered if it was a metaphor or if there was something more too it. And if IT is a metaphor, then how do we know the rest is not? This is not meant sarcastically.

I wondered about your mail. I sent something too you in your personal email.

 

[Who Says]

Some seem to think that they are to be spirits floating around on a cloud strumming a harp???
And that there will be NO FLESH OR BLOOD IN HEAVEN?? Or is it to be, no sinful (decayed) flesh & blood in heaven? Like Adam & Eve before sin & then after sin?

When Christ comes, some truly will [not be like Him!] For they will die the second death. They will come out of the grave just as decayed as they went into it!
But the others will be like Him!

Thomas decided that Christ was real!! (finally, huh?) See John 20:26-29. And it says that Christ ate fish & bread after being resurrected. John 21:13-14.

And John 24:37.. "And they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And He said unto them, Why are yea troubled and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; [for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as yea see that I have.]"

And these 'seen' in Matt. 27:52-53? Notice the Word of [Bodies!]
"And the graves were opened; and many [bodies] of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves [after the resurrection], and went *into holy city, and [APPEARED unto many]." (I supposed that, that is where the devil had Halloween start from)

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the son's of God, and it doeth not yet appear what we will shall be: but we know that, [when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is]." Both of whom we call the Father & the Son, [had an image,] at Adams creation. And the Word of God states that God is a Spirit! Also, that this [He,] is referred to as the Holy Ghost & the Holy Spirit. John 15 & 16.


Notice Isaiah 66: 22-23 In the New Earth! We shall be Sabbath Keepers! And in verse 15-17 we see some who will not be there! No, no spirits in hell either! See Obad. 16 for these d-e-a-d ones!

Yet, notice chapter 65:21-25 ibid! and read verse 21-23 in particular! Build Houses and inhabit them! And plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them! And notice this!! 'Mine elect [shall long enjoy the *WORK of their hands]."

Whatever? Float around if that is your thing. Yet, that is not the Everlasting Gospel!! Rev. 14:6

But yes, one can be sure that we will have a body made like Adam & Eve had at the beginning, before sin! If we come forth in the First Resurrection! Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15.

---Elijah




​

​

I like your thinking. :yes

1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Many that read that verse it seems see only the part I have highlighted. They say we are told there at 1 Cor 15:50 that clearly no flesh and blood will be in the kingdom of God.

They sometimes back it up with this one:

Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

They reason that what it says there at Hebrews 2:14 means that they will not partake of it when they are ressurected to their new spirit bodies like unto Christ's.

As I see 1 Corinthians 15: 50, it is only saying that our current corrupted fleshly bodies cannot inherit that kingdom of God. Therefore we must walk in the will of the Spirit and not the will of our corrupted flesh if we wish to enter that kingdom of God.

It is not in any way telling us what our bodies will be like after we enter that kingdom, but only that we cannot obey the will of this corrupted flesh and blood body if we hope to inherit that kingdom.

I believe that is what you (at least in part) are saying also, isn't it?

 

[Sam21]

Paul was pretty clear that our bodies will be changed and they will not be flesh and blood anymore, Paul spoke of our earthly body and later our heavenly body.The first century church thought that Christ would return in their lifetime and the believers would be changed and gathered to Christ in the sky and those who did not accept Christ would suffer the wrath of God. Apart from Revelation the teaching of the NT mostly ends with the believers being caught up to Christ and changed.

 

[Elijah674]

Paul was pretty clear that our bodies will be changed and they will not be flesh and blood anymore, Paul spoke of our earthly body and later our heavenly body.The first century church thought that Christ would return in their lifetime and the believers would be changed and gathered to Christ in the sky and those who did not accept Christ would suffer the wrath of God. Apart from Revelation the teaching of the NT mostly ends with the believers being caught up to Christ and changed.

Hi, 'i' think that Christ was resurrected with a real (John 20:27) body, and ate food, (fish) and others also went into the city after Christ resurection, huh? No mention of spirits? (see Acts 1:3)
And as stated, it means that sinful flesh & blood will not inherite the kingdom of heaven. (as 'i' see it;)) We will be like Adam before the fall???

 

[warhorse]

When He says a child will die a hundred years old, what does that mean? If there is do death there, how can a child die?

It ( i believe) points to the millinial kingdom timeframe. 2/3rds of the peaple on the planet are killed on the DOTl 1/3 wish to die but cant. Then comes the time of refreshing as we reign with Jesus in perfected bodies, over the 1/3. Anyway thats my take on it.

 

[Who Says]

Hi, 'i' think that Christ was resurrected with a real (John 20:27) body, and ate food, (fish) and others also went into the city after Christ resurection, huh? No mention of spirits? (see Acts 1:3)
And as stated, it means that sinful flesh & blood will not inherite the kingdom of heaven. (as 'i' see it;)) We will be like Adam before the fall???

Amen

 

[Who Says]

When He says a child will die a hundred years old, what does that mean? If there is do death there, how can a child die?

Isaiah 65:20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed." (The New International Version)

In inspecting this verse I came to the conclusion that this rendering in the New International Version best reflects the thoughts of Isaiah according to the original text.

The BBE reads similar but I think does not quite catch it:
Isaiah 65:20 "No longer will there be there a child whose days are cut short, or an old man whose days have not come to their full measure: for the young man at his death will be a hundred years old, and he whose life is shorter than a hundred years will seem as one cursed." (The Bible in Basic English)

This is said to have had a prior fulfillment (2 Chronicles 36:17) on Israel when they were taken into Babylonian captivity (2 Chronicles 37:20). When they were liberated they were given rest from their enemies who had came in and killed young and old alike. This is said to be Isaiah's prophecy concerning that rest they were given but like many of the prophecies the first fulfillment foreshadows the greater fulfillment yet to come.

The play on the words to convey the protected length of life which only their fall back into sin could end in the original fulfillment as compared to the endless life which only sin can end in the future fulfillment has proved some difficult for translators to exegesis.

But I am that the New Internal Version has tackled it.

The death even in this flesh matter not how old is due to sin. And in the greater fulfillment such a death will only be due to sin. And we certainly have a bulk of other scripture to show that Adamic death will not enter that millennium.

 

[Alabaster]

Context!

Isaiah 65:17-25 NLT refers to the coming Millennial Kingdom...

17 “Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth,
and no one will even think about the old ones anymore.
18 Be glad; rejoice forever in my creation!
And look! I will create Jerusalem as a place of happiness.
Her people will be a source of joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and delight in my people.
And the sound of weeping and crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “No longer will babies die when only a few days old.
No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life.
No longer will people be considered old at one hundred!
Only the cursed will die that young!
21 In those days people will live in the houses they build
and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 Unlike the past, invaders will not take their houses
and confiscate their vineyards.
For my people will live as long as trees,
and my chosen ones will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.
23 They will not work in vain,
and their children will not be doomed to misfortune.
For they are people blessed by the Lord,
and their children, too, will be blessed.
24 I will answer them before they even call to me.
While they are still talking about their needs,
I will go ahead and answer their prayers!
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together.
The lion will eat hay like a cow.
But the snakes will eat dust.
In those days no one will be hurt or destroyed on my holy mountain.
I, the Lord, have spoken!â€

 

[Who Says]

Context!

Isaiah 65:17-25 NLT refers to the coming Millennial Kingdom...

17 “Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth,
and no one will even think about the old ones anymore.
18 Be glad; rejoice forever in my creation!
And look! I will create Jerusalem as a place of happiness.
Her people will be a source of joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and delight in my people.
And the sound of weeping and crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “No longer will babies die when only a few days old.
No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life.
No longer will people be considered old at one hundred!
Only the cursed will die that young!
21 In those days people will live in the houses they build
and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 Unlike the past, invaders will not take their houses
and confiscate their vineyards.
For my people will live as long as trees,
and my chosen ones will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.
23 They will not work in vain,
and their children will not be doomed to misfortune.
For they are people blessed by the Lord,
and their children, too, will be blessed.
24 I will answer them before they even call to me.
While they are still talking about their needs,
I will go ahead and answer their prayers!
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together.
The lion will eat hay like a cow.
But the snakes will eat dust.
In those days no one will be hurt or destroyed on my holy mountain.
I, the Lord, have spoken!â€

I like it very much !!! :yes

I have never read or used that Bible version. I am going to have to check it out.

I figure NLT means New Living Translation?

 

[Alabaster]

I like it very much !!! :yes

I have never read or used that Bible version. I am going to have to check it out.

I figure NLT means New Living Translation?

Yes. I use it in conjunction with others when I do my Bible reading, and I am blessed by it. On Christian forums I use mostly the NLT so that many people will understand scripture in common language. I tend to debate a lot with Catholics and they are entrenching in the old rendering. They don;t complain about my choice to use the NLT, but then again, I don;t believe they even red the scriptures I post!

 

[Elijah674]

No games. Serious question. I understand as you about 'eternal' hell.

I wondered if it was a metaphor or if there was something more too it. And if IT is a metaphor, then how do we know the rest is not? This is not meant sarcastically.

I wondered about your mail. I sent something too you in your personal email.

The metaphor reality comes about by the Matt. 4:4 & 2 Tim. 3:16 'whole Eternal Gospel';) Did that help?

Well, let me just ask, if we are again to be as Adam before his fall, how old is Eternal life??
Even then, what is 100 years compared to the pre/flood 'vegetarian ones'? (;)) I thought that you guys would like that question??

Here is a good verse about that which I do like! Gen. 9:3-4 you can read, but here is verse 5
'And [SURELY] your blood of YOUR LIVES WILL I REQUIRE; at the hand of every beast WILL I REQUIRE IT], ..'

And how so??? You go study Gen. 11:10-27 +, even check out Abe in Gen. 25:7-8 at 175 years. That is quite a quick drop off from nearly the 1000 year olds of pre/flood ones! And your question of only 100 year olds of heaven would not even be any different than some vegans of todays lifespan.

_________

And the email's?? I still have not that worked out yet, but when they come through, most likely there will be a Noah's ark needed nearby??;)

 

[Alabaster]

Both Abraham and Sarah were still considered old at the time of God's announcement that they shall have descendants.

Genesis 17:17 NLT
Then Abraham bowed down to the ground, but he laughed to himself in disbelief. “How could I become a father at the age of 100?†he thought. “And how can Sarah have a baby when she is ninety years old?â€

 

[Who Says]

No games. Serious question. I understand as you about 'eternal' hell.

I wondered if it was a metaphor or if there was something more too it. And if IT is a metaphor, then how do we know the rest is not? This is not meant sarcastically.

I wondered about your mail. I sent something too you in your personal email.

I do not believe that Christ's death brought sanctification to all men until they repent and embrace it. I believe that Christ clearly said that if we do not believe we die in our sins.

I do not believe we have an immortal soul. I believe we are given immortality to finish swallowing up death after we have completed our return to being holy as God is holy.

Therefore I do not believe that souls are literally tormented forever in a lake of fire in the sense that we think of torment. I believe that disobedient souls will not be alive to be tormented in the sense we today think of torment. I believe that as the word translated torment is the same word used of "jailers" (prison guards) in that day and time, it is only saying that the second death will be permanently confining, thus everlasting.

And I believe that the investigation of the smoke of their torment which ascends up forever and ever is the word for a touch-stone (a marker that they left remain on a site to tell what went on there).

I believe that Jesus was speaking of the everlastingness of that judgment of second death when he compared it to a garbage dump (Gehenna) that is the final resting place for lifeless garbage.

I believe that most humans do not approve of torturing animal's because humans have a basic inclination to love merely by virtue of having been created in God's image. I believe that the God of love I know would not torment anyone for eternity in the sense we think of torment today as we are not more righteous than he.

Yes, I believe it only a metaphor for everlasting confinement to a lifeless death (non-existence).

Humor me:

I suppose the wicked old lady I saw get cut completely in half from top to bottom as the result of the car accident she was in lives on in hell in two parts? Because it is not to worry, she is (All Right, now) and that which was (LEFT) to help her in hell's kitchen.

See, I can think logically, too!