Who Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

[Mungo]

But that scripture can not be broken.

What scripture cannot be broken?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

What scripture cannot be broken?

Hebrews 13:8

 

[Mungo]

“Wherefore as they [the Jews] rejected it [the Sabbath law], the Word [Christ] by the new covenant, translated and transferred the feast of the Sabbath to the morning light, and gave us the symbol of true rest, viz. [in other words], the saving Lord’s day, the first [day] of light, in which the Savior of the world, after all his labors among men, obtained the victory over death, and passed the portals of heaven, having achieved a work superior to the six-days creation. On this day, which is the first [day] of light and of the true Sun, we assemble, after an interval of six days, and celebrate holy and spiritual Sabbaths, even all nations redeemed by Him throughout the world, and do those things according to the spiritual law, which were decreed for the priests to do on the Sabbath. And all things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have transferred to the Lord’s day, as more appropriately belong to it, because it has a precedence and is first in rank, and more honorable than the Jewish Sabbath. All things whatsoever that it was duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have transferred to the Lord’s Day.” (Eusebius’s Commentary on the Psalms, Psalm 92, quoted in The Literature of the Sabbath by Robert Cox, Vol I, p. 361, italics and insertions mine)

Did you notice the last two sentences in Eusebius’ argument? Eusebius testifies that “we” (Constantine and the leaders of the church) “have transferred all things, whatsoever that it was duty to do on the Sabbath” to Sunday. Eusebius offered no Scriptural authority for this change because there is none. Additionally, no church father or council from that time- period challenged or affirmed Eusebius’ claims. As it turned out, Eusebius took the thorny problem of worship in hand and became the father of a heresy that favored the apostate practices of the church in Rome. When a mere mortal, no matter how well-intentioned, declares by his own authority that the law of an eternal Almighty God is null and void, he is both delusional and evil.


Centuries later, the writings of Eusebius created a huge problem for Protestants. Catholics do not question the sacredness of Sunday because they believe the Church has the authority to change God’s laws. They believe Jesus gave this authority to Peter and his successors. (Matthew 16:19) On the other hand, Protestants have had to scramble for answers, because they insist their faith and doctrine is based solely on the Word of God, but there is no biblical support for their Sunday-keeping arguments. Even though their reasoning is different, Catholics and Protestants abolished the Sabbath and substituted Sunday in its place. Who has higher authority – the Creator or the created?

One man says, “Every day is holy, I worship God every day of the week.”
Another man says, “It does not matter which day we worship on as long as we worship God.” Such comments show no regard for the Creator’s authority. If Jesus were on Earth today, He would say of most Christians the same thing He said of the Jews, “They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.” (Matthew 15:9)

Argument 7 does not support the sacredness of Sunday. It does explain how apostasy overtook Christianity.

(The above was taken from, No More Delay, pgs.163-168, author: Larry W. Wilson)

More false arguments.
You quote Eusebius "these we have transferred to the Lord’s day" and then claim that Eusebius said "we" meant "Constantine and the leaders of the church".
But Eusebius didn't say that.
You made a false statement.
Eusebius nether claimed that Constantione was involved nor that the change happened during Constatine's or Eusebius' time. You just made that up.

 

[Mungo]

Hebrews 13:8

How are you claiming it is broken?
And in what way is Jesus Christ "the same yesterday, today, and forever"

 

[WalterandDebbie]

How are you claiming it is broken?
And in what way is Jesus Christ "the same yesterday, today, and forever"

To me, that scripture is not broken, and that scripture speaks for itself, but let me ask you this question since we are talking about that scripture, are you keeping His commandments, esp. the 4th. one, because did you say it is for a certain group of people?

 

[Mungo]

To me, that scripture is not broken, and that scripture speaks for itself, but let me ask you this question since we are talking about that scripture, are you keeping His commandments, esp. the 4th. one, because did you say it is for a certain group of people?

Try answering my questions before you ask me any.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Try answering my questions before you ask me any.

Ok, How do you understand that scripture?

 

[Mungo]

Ok, How do you understand that scripture?

Try answering my questions before you ask me any.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Try answering my questions before you ask me any.

My answer is in post # 94

 

[Mungo]

My answer is in post # 94

A typical non-answer.
But don't bother replying now - see next post.

 

[Mungo]

Dear all,

It is now evening in the UK. Tomorrow family are visiting and staying the weekend. I will probably not have any more time to post in the forum until Monday, by which time there will be dozens of posts or the thread will have died and I will have no desire to resuscitate it. So I will probably just drop out and leave you to it.

Also we seem to be recycling the same arguments.
To summarise my main points, which I consider have not been refuted, and for which I have given evidence are:
1. The change of the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday for Christians took place in the 1st century.
2. God mandated no-one to keep a 7th day sabbath until he gave the command to the Israelites in the desert (Ex 16)
3. There is no evidence that anyone kept a 7th day sabbath before God gave it to the Israelites in the desert (Ex 16)
God bless
Have a nice weekend.

 

[for_his_glory]

And the Lord said to Moses, “Say to the people of Israel, ‘You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. (Ex 31:12-13)

Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel... (Ex 31:16-17)

Thank you I stand corrected.

 

[for_his_glory]

If God didn't rest every 7th day then why do we have to rest every 7th day?

And I have pointed out before God may have sanctified that particular 7th day but scripture does not say God sanctifies EVERY 7th day

For the same reason we keep Passover every year as it's both done in remembrance of what God has done for all of us.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've never seen the Ten Commandments on the wall of a Catholic Church, inside or outside.
But they are in the Catechism

I have been in a few Catholic churches that have them on their walls, but since you say they are only for the Jews then why bother putting them into the catholic Catechism or that any one other than a Jew should follow them.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Since Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath and we grafted into the branch with Jesus being the root then I would say bot Jew and Gentile being one body of Christ we should all keep the sabbath as a holy day unto the Lord as a remembrance as in giving thanks for all He has done for us..

 

[Niblo]

Dear all,

It is now evening in the UK. Tomorrow family are visiting and staying the weekend. I will probably not have any more time to post in the forum until Monday, by which time there will be dozens of posts or the thread will have died and I will have no desire to resuscitate it. So I will probably just drop out and leave you to it.

Also we seem to be recycling the same arguments.
To summarise my main points, which I consider have not been refuted, and for which I have given evidence are:
1. The change of the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday for Christians took place in the 1st century.
2. God mandated no-one to keep a 7th day sabbath until he gave the command to the Israelites in the desert (Ex 16)
3. There is no evidence that anyone kept a 7th day sabbath before God gave it to the Israelites in the desert (Ex 16)
God bless
Have a nice weekend.

Have a great weekend with your family.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

No complaint, I guess you don't see things the same, when I mentioned Hebrews 13:8, my way of thinking is that, the same God who spoke to Moses is the same for us today.

Hebrews 13:8, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.” We can take heart and have confidence in Jesus. Unlike our own wealth or earthly leaders which will disappoint and constantly change, Jesus is the one steadfast and unchanging anchor who can hold our lives together.

https://biblehub.com/hebrews/13-8.htm, Commentary: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/hebrews/13-8.htm

 

[for_his_glory]

Seventh day sabbath keeping is not a moral law.

Never said it was. If you would have answered my question about Passover then I could have explained that to you.

Nine "Thou shall not's" one "Keep in remembrance.

 

[for_his_glory]

And much of it is also opinions unsupported by any evidence.

As such it is worthless.

Actually with all due respect to your understanding the same can be said of you as you give unsupported evidence just by what a bunch of men have said.

 

[for_his_glory]

A typical non-answer.
But don't bother replying now - see next post.

Please do not be rude. You were asked a question by WalterandDebbie you never answered so the discussion between the two of you could continue.

 

[WIP]

If the Catholic church does not observe the Sabbath, then why does the Catholic church teach that missing Sunday Mass or Holy Days of Obligation is a mortal sin? I've never been able to find in Scripture where it was a sin, especially a mortal sin, for Christians to miss attending Sunday worship services. The only reference that I can recall is in Hebrews 10:24-25 where the author encourages gathering but does not claim it is a command of God. It's definitely a good thing to do and should be encouraged greatly but a mortal sin?

Praying without ceasing, rejoicing always, giving thanks in all circumstances, and so forth are actually more like commands than attending church services. In fact, Jesus Himself tells us to pray in secret rather than to do so as a show for others.