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Who Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?

WalterandDebbie

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The Ten Commandments were given to the Jews alone as their covenant law. They were not given to gentiles. It was a sign of their covenant.
The sabbath commandment is the longest of the commandments which indicates that God had to really ram it home to them.
Commandments Relating To Mankind

Exodus 20:1-17
 

Mungo

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I have noticed in some of your posts that you have some strange beliefs, instead of letting the scriptures speak for themselves. 2 Peter 1:20

So, you have no answer to my points.
I thought that would be the case.
 

Mungo

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Commandments Relating To Mankind

Exodus 20:1-17

Ex 20:1-2
And God spoke all these words, saying, I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Who is the you that God brought out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage?
The Israelites in the desert or all mankind?
The Israelites in the desert obviously.
So the whole of Ex 20:-17 is given to the Israelites not for the whole of mankind.

Ex 24:3
Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice, and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do.
Who were the we who made this agreement with God that “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do."
The Israelites in the desert or all mankind?
The Israelites in the desert obviously.

Ex 24:8
And Moses took the blood and threw it upon the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.
Who were the you that God made a covenant with?
The Israelites in the desert or all mankind?
The Israelites in the desert obviously.
 

Mungo

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I rather get more study, but why don't you see the way that those scriptures points out?
I do see what those scriptures point to and that is not that God rested on a cycle of 7th day sabbaths, nor that he told anyone before Ex 16 to keep a cycle of 7th day sabbaths.

There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16.
If there were then you could show it to me.
But you can't.
 

WalterandDebbie

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Ex 20:1-2
And God spoke all these words, saying, I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Who is the you that God brought out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage?
The Israelites in the desert or all mankind?
The Israelites in the desert obviously.
So the whole of Ex 20:-17 is given to the Israelites not for the whole of mankind.

Ex 24:3
Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice, and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do.
Who were the we who made this agreement with God that “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do."
The Israelites in the desert or all mankind?
The Israelites in the desert obviously.

Ex 24:8
And Moses took the blood and threw it upon the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.
Who were the you that God made a covenant with?
The Israelites in the desert or all mankind?
The Israelites in the desert obviously.
Yes, I do see your points here, but do you realize He is the same yesterday, today, and forever?
 

WIP

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There is no mention of anyone keeping a sabbath until Ex 16 when the instruction was given to the Israelites in the desert.
Do you hold to the belief that the purpose of the 10 Commandments was solely for instruction? I beg to differ. I believe they served another purpose as well in showing the Israelites, and us, how sinful they and we truly are and why we so desperately need a savior.

In a way, it's like God saying, "You think you are righteous? Consider these 10 Commandments and judge for yourself." Jesus reiterated this sentiment during His sermon on the Mount when He spoke of how to love our neighbors and our God.

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men."

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’
34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne;
35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away."

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

1 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men."

5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."

16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."

19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other."


From Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5 and 6, NKJV.

These are very difficult sayings. How many of us can truly say we are capable of fulfilling this? I can't. Imagine walking down the street and being confronted by a mugger. How truly willing would we be to give him/her everything including the clothing off our bodies? Our most likely reaction, if possible, would be to report the incident and have him/her arrested and hold him/her accountable. Or imagine how difficult it would be to love someone that came into your home and raped or murdered one of your children. Most of us would be filled with rage and a desire for vengeance, although we would probably call it justice.
 

WalterandDebbie

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I do see what those scriptures point to and that is not that God rested on a cycle of 7th day sabbaths, nor that he told anyone before Ex 16 to keep a cycle of 7th day sabbaths.

There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16.
If there were then you could show it to me.
But you can't.
On the seventh day of creation, He rested that is enough for us to do the same from work, He says to keep it Holy.
 

WIP

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Christians are not Jews.
This statement has had me thinking. It seems to clash with what Paul was saying in Romans 11, particularly where he wrote...

16 For if the first fruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:16-17, 19-24 NKJV

And this too...

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Romans 8:12-17 NKJV
 

WIP

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I guess my last two posts are technically off topic. Sorry. But these questions have come to mind.
 

Mungo

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Do you hold to the belief that the purpose of the 10 Commandments was solely for instruction? I beg to differ. I believe they served another purpose as well in showing the Israelites, and us, how sinful they and we truly are and why we so desperately need a savior.

In a way, it's like God saying, "You think you are righteous? Consider these 10 Commandments and judge for yourself." Jesus reiterated this sentiment during His sermon on the Mount when He spoke of how to love our neighbors and our God.

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men."

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."

33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’
34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne;
35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.
41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away."

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

1 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men."

5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."

16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly."

19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other."


From Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5 and 6, NKJV.

These are very difficult sayings. How many of us can truly say we are capable of fulfilling this? I can't. Imagine walking down the street and being confronted by a mugger. How truly willing would we be to give him/her everything including the clothing off our bodies? Our most likely reaction, if possible, would be to report the incident and have him/her arrested and hold him/her accountable. Or imagine how difficult it would be to love someone that came into your home and raped or murdered one of your children. Most of us would be filled with rage and a desire for vengeance, although we would probably call it justice.

The 10 Commandments are mainly moral commands that are true for all people and for all time.
But not all the Commandments are moral issues. the 7th day sabbath isn't in itself. It was given to the Israelites as a sign of their covenant with God. Keeping them was a moral issue for the Israelites because obedience to God is a moral issue and he commended them to keep it.

As I said before:
There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16.
If there were then you could show it to me.
But you can't.
 

Mungo

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On the seventh day of creation, He rested that is enough for us to do the same from work, He says to keep it Holy.
He rested on that particular 7th day. It doesn't say God rested every 7th day.
There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16.
If there were then you could show it to me.
But you can't.
 

Mungo

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This statement has had me thinking. It seems to clash with what Paul was saying in Romans 11, particularly where he wrote...

16 For if the first fruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:16-17, 19-24 NKJV

And this too...

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

Romans 8:12-17 NKJV

Paul was very clear in his letter to the Galatians 3 onwards that going back to put yourself under the Law is wrong
He says in Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Paul declares that he is not under the law.
T
o the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law [Gentiles] I became as one outside the law--not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ--that I might win those outside the law. (1Cor 9:20-21)

Hebrews says there is a change in the law.
When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)

The Old (Mosaic Covenant has been replaced:

On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)

For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)

When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)

He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)

We are now living under the New Law of the New Covenant. This New Law is written on our hearts. Hebrews 8:8-10 quotes Jeremiah 31:31-33:
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers the day I took them by the hand to lead them forth from the land of Egypt; for they did not stand by my covenant and I ignored them, says the Lord.

But this is the covenant I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and I will write them upon their hearts. I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Taken from Heb)

So what is this New Law? It is the Commandments of Jesus:
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
(Jn 14:15)

If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. (Jn 15:10)

Jesus never commanded us to keep a 7th day sabbath.
 

WalterandDebbie

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He rested on that particular 7th day. It doesn't say God rested every 7th day.
There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16.
If there were then you could show it to me.
But you can't.
As I said in post #68, you will not receive that, Why? Exodus 20:8, He also said If you love me keep my commandments,
John 14:15
 
Last edited:

Mungo

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As I said in post #68, you will not receive that, Why? Exodus 20:8, He also said If you love me keep my commandments,
John 14:15

Ex 20:8 is not a commandment for us. It was a commandment for the Israelites to whom it was addressed.

There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16 and that was addressed to the Israelites in the desert - see post #63

Ref John 14:15 - where did Jesus tell us to keep a 7th day sabbath?
 

WalterandDebbie

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Ex 20:8 is not a commandment for us. It was a commandment for the Israelites to whom it was addressed.

There is no scripture that says that God told anyone to keep a weekly 7th sabbath before Ex 16 and that was addressed to the Israelites in the desert - see post #63

Ref John 14:15 - where did Jesus tell us to keep a 7th day sabbath?
Hebrews 13:8
 
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