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Who created Satan?

Taniesh said:
Who created Satan? any thoughts?
Click to expand...

God created Lucifer.

Lucifer became the Enemy [Satan], by his own choice, when he decided in his heart to be as God, and to sit on God's throne to be worshiped.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15


JLB
 
Taniesh said:
Who created Satan? any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Yes. I have a thought.
It's useless to discuss this.
When you get down to the bottom line, you know, the very last one,
There's NO ANSWER.
Dualism could be considered - but that won't work either.
There cannot be two equal Gods.
Christianity explains everything really well - but stops at your answer.

W
 
JLB said:
God created Lucifer.

Lucifer became the Enemy [Satan], by his own choice, when he decided in his heart to be as God, and to sit on God's throne to be worshiped.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15


JLB
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Not that easy JLB.
 
There are issues with the Isaiah passages... mostly because it is addressed to a specific group of people.

Personally, I have never met Satan.
I looked for the name Satan in the Torah.... couldn't find it.

So my biggest fear, concern, worry is my personal Satan. The one that stems from my sin. I don't have to be led into temptation....I know all the shortcuts.
 
JohnDB said:
There are issues with the Isaiah passages... mostly because it is addressed to a specific group of people.

Personally, I have never met Satan.
I looked for the name Satan in the Torah.... couldn't find it.

So my biggest fear, concern, worry is my personal Satan. The one that stems from my sin. I don't have to be led into temptation....I know all the shortcuts.
Click to expand...

So you don't believe there is a fallen angel called Satan.


I looked for the name Satan in the Torah.... couldn't find it.
Click to expand...


Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:1-2


JLB
 
JohnDB said:
There are issues with the Isaiah passages... mostly because it is addressed to a specific group of people.

Personally, I have never met Satan.
I looked for the name Satan in the Torah.... couldn't find it.

So my biggest fear, concern, worry is my personal Satan. The one that stems from my sin. I don't have to be led into temptation....I know all the shortcuts.
Click to expand...
I like about the shortcuts.
I see satan in many places and in many situations.
Am I oversensitive?
Do you believe he's a real live being?
 
JLB said:
So you don't believe there is a fallen angels called Satan.





Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:1-2


JLB
Click to expand...
and seeking whom he will devour...
 
wondering said:
I don't like to think about my view.
I don't have a view.
I don't have an answer.
I said there is NO answer.
WHERE does evil come from?
No answer.
Click to expand...

You replied to my post, in which I was answering a question: "who created Satan"


In which I replied:

God created Lucifer.

Lucifer became the Enemy [Satan], by his own choice, when he decided in his heart to be as God, and to sit on God's throne to be worshiped.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15
Click to expand...

You answered and said:

wondering said:
Hmmm. Not that easy JLB.
Click to expand...

"Evil" was never mentioned.

If you don't believe that God created Lucifer, then who do you say, created him?

JLB
 
JohnDB said:
There are issues with the Isaiah passages... mostly because it is addressed to a specific group of people.

Personally, I have never met Satan.
I looked for the name Satan in the Torah.... couldn't find it.

So my biggest fear, concern, worry is my personal Satan. The one that stems from my sin. I don't have to be led into temptation....I know all the shortcuts.
Click to expand...
Ok the Torah didn't have the account of Genesis three? Or did you forget Job? HA satan.means the opposer.
 
JLB said:
So you don't believe there is a fallen angels called Satan.





Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:1-2


JLB
Click to expand...
There's a ton of metaphors and the Hebrew used in the"Satan passages" are difficult at best.

The book of Job was likely written by Moses but wasn't considered scriptures until after the first exile of the Jews. Which is kinda confusing as to their reasoning. But today it is considered scripture... which I do agree with.

But again it's difficult to get a firm grip on precisely some of the intentions of the writer of the story.
(From the original language)

So,.
Where so many of the subjects in scriptures I do have personal experience with and take to heart... this subject of autonomous spiritual beings interfering in my relationship with God hasn't been
experienced by me.
But I have experienced my sin nature interfering with the relationship on an almost hourly basis.
So in an exercise of conservation of energies i focus my attention on that which I know will be effective.

So where I can understand that some people give Satan a lot of credence and emotions...I find it an almost certainty that they focus more on Satan than on God and his holiness and goodness (Which is a suggestion of Paul).

Of course I'm probably going about this the wrong way...but I don't know any other way.
 
The name given to the serpent is a title. I read the Hebrew usage and definition of HaSatan.It is a bit different then ours.
 
JLB said:
You replied to my post, in which I was answering a question: "who created Satan"

In which I replied:

You answered and said:

"Evil" was never mentioned.

If you don't believe that God created Lucifer, then who do you say, created him?

JLB
Click to expand...

Do you understand evil to be different from satan?
Do me they're synonymous.

Where does evil come from?
Where does satan come from?

WHAT made lucifer oppose God?
WHY did he want to be like God?
WHY was he jealous?

Was the sin nature already in existence when he opposed God?
Where did it come from??

W
 
JohnDB said:
There's a ton of metaphors and the Hebrew used in the"Satan passages" are difficult at best.

The book of Job was likely written by Moses but wasn't considered scriptures until after the first exile of the Jews. Which is kinda confusing as to their reasoning. But today it is considered scripture... which I do agree with.

But again it's difficult to get a firm grip on precisely some of the intentions of the writer of the story.
(From the original language)

So,.
Where so many of the subjects in scriptures I do have personal experience with and take to heart... this subject of autonomous spiritual beings interfering in my relationship with God hasn't been
experienced by me.
But I have experienced my sin nature interfering with the relationship on an almost hourly basis.
So in an exercise of conservation of energies i focus my attention on that which I know will be effective.

So where I can understand that some people give Satan a lot of credence and emotions...I find it an almost certainty that they focus more on Satan than on God and his holiness and goodness (Which is a suggestion of Paul).

Of course I'm probably going about this the wrong way...but I don't know any other way.
Click to expand...
Where does you sin nature come from?
What about Ephesians 6:12?
 
jasonc said:
Ok the Torah didn't have the account of Genesis three? Or did you forget Job? HA satan.means the opposer.
Click to expand...
Job is not Torah....

Genesis 3 mentioned a serpent... which many people for millennia have said is Satan (and John credits this in Revelation)

The whole of the Bible is written upon the contents of the Torah...its a reason why it agrees with itself so much.
 
JohnDB said:
Job is not Torah....

Genesis 3 mentioned a serpent... which many people for millennia have said is Satan (and John credits this in Revelation)

The whole of the Bible is written upon the contents of the Torah...its a reason why it agrees with itself so much.
Click to expand...
In know that it's not torah.
 
JohnDB said:
There's a ton of metaphors and the Hebrew used in the"Satan passages" are difficult at best.

The book of Job was likely written by Moses but wasn't considered scriptures until after the first exile of the Jews. Which is kinda confusing as to their reasoning. But today it is considered scripture... which I do agree with.

But again it's difficult to get a firm grip on precisely some of the intentions of the writer of the story.
(From the original language)

So,.
Where so many of the subjects in scriptures I do have personal experience with and take to heart... this subject of autonomous spiritual beings interfering in my relationship with God hasn't been
experienced by me.
But I have experienced my sin nature interfering with the relationship on an almost hourly basis.
So in an exercise of conservation of energies i focus my attention on that which I know will be effective.

So where I can understand that some people give Satan a lot of credence and emotions...I find it an almost certainty that they focus more on Satan than on God and his holiness and goodness (Which is a suggestion of Paul).

Of course I'm probably going about this the wrong way...but I don't know any other way.
Click to expand...

How about reading the scriptures I posted, and commenting on what they say.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15

  • “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
Lucifer was at one time in heaven, but "fell" and is referred to as a "fallen" angel.

  • For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven,I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’

Lucifer had authority in God's kingdom, as he had a throne, that he desired to be elevated or exalted.

To me, this speaks of "self promotion" to a position of greater authority than God has authorized.

This reminds me of the rebellion in the wilderness over who would be "High Priest".

The Lord had chosen Aaron to be high Priest, but Korah and his group had plans of their own.

The rod of Aaron budded, signifying who God had chosen to be high Priest, and the earth opened and swallowed up Korah and his group alive, so that they went straight into hell alive.

So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly. Numbers 16:33
Click to expand...

Please read all of Numbers 16 for the full context.

This is the fate that awaits Satan and his angels, as well as those who follow this pattern of rebellion.

Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Click to expand...

Yes there are some metaphors but they teach us very real lessons.

Lucifer was an angel in heaven, and is a son of God, as are all angels.

God is the Father of spirits, and the creator of heaven and earth and all that is within them.


Sons of God that become disobedient, can indeed end up being cast into hell.



JLB
 
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