where is all of this found in Scripture?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Who created Satan?
- Thread starter Taniesh
- Start date
IncredibleTransformation
Member
I don't see the argument here. God created everything, so He created Satan also.
JohnDB
Member
God is perfect.
God is omnipotent and omniscience .
Meaning that God is perfectly efficient in all his ways.
God cannot be bad because God is too busy being good.
Therefore God cannot create evil.
IncredibleTransformation
Member
If He didn't create Satan then He isn't omnipotent or omnisciencent. Someone or something else created, not God. Your argument doesn't hold validity. Did you ever think that He created evil to show us what good is? If we have no contrast we have nothing to judge evil with. Did you ever think that he created evil to show us how much He loved us? He loved us so much that His son died for us. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13) How would we know this much love if there wasn't some reason to give it?
Agreed. There simply is no reason to think the passage refers to Satan. One has to read that into the passage as it clearly is about the king of Babylon.
Any references to Satan are read into those passages.
turnorburn
Member
What does your bible say?
smaller
Member
God created all things including Satan and his messengers. Col. 1:16, Rev. 4:11
Jesus was tempted by Satan. Matt. 4:1, Luke 4:2. Satan entered at least 2 disciples where we are told so by direct scriptural statements showing Satan having done this. The children of the devil (demons) were also in the pharisees that Jesus addressed in John 8:44. Jesus said that where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart to commit sin. Mark 4:15. John the Apostle linked the devil to "sin" in 1 John 3:8, showing how extensive this problem is for everyone. Paul stated he had a messenger of Satan in his own flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7.
And yes, there are many direct references to Satan in the O.T. Most of them in Job. But also in 1 Chron. and Zech.
There are an abundance of 'allegorical' term references to Satan throughout the scriptures. Dragon, red Dragon, Pharaoh, behemoth, leviathan, thorn, thistle, serpent, crooked serpent, piercing serpent, belial, etc. etc. Really too extensive of a study to even get into in this format.
When believers understand the principle of Mark 4:15 they should read the scriptures accordingly. They'll learn to understand how God Speaks to people i.e. God is NOT addressing only people when He Speaks. God Speaks His Words, Satan resists His Words IN man. Therefore God speaks to TWO separate parties IN MAN when He Speaks. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 and many many more.
But if believers take personal offense at this, they really heard nothing, and the scriptures will be partially blocked from their understandings. It is basically impossible for any believer to see this unless and until God in Christ leads them to see it in relation to their own sins and temptations.
If Jesus was tempted by Satan do we expect any different for ourselves? Uh, no. Temptation transpires "internally" and that places the tempter "in the flesh, internally" to do so.
Jesus was tempted by Satan. Matt. 4:1, Luke 4:2. Satan entered at least 2 disciples where we are told so by direct scriptural statements showing Satan having done this. The children of the devil (demons) were also in the pharisees that Jesus addressed in John 8:44. Jesus said that where the Word is sown, Satan enters the heart to commit sin. Mark 4:15. John the Apostle linked the devil to "sin" in 1 John 3:8, showing how extensive this problem is for everyone. Paul stated he had a messenger of Satan in his own flesh. 2 Cor. 12:7.
And yes, there are many direct references to Satan in the O.T. Most of them in Job. But also in 1 Chron. and Zech.
There are an abundance of 'allegorical' term references to Satan throughout the scriptures. Dragon, red Dragon, Pharaoh, behemoth, leviathan, thorn, thistle, serpent, crooked serpent, piercing serpent, belial, etc. etc. Really too extensive of a study to even get into in this format.
When believers understand the principle of Mark 4:15 they should read the scriptures accordingly. They'll learn to understand how God Speaks to people i.e. God is NOT addressing only people when He Speaks. God Speaks His Words, Satan resists His Words IN man. Therefore God speaks to TWO separate parties IN MAN when He Speaks. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 and many many more.
But if believers take personal offense at this, they really heard nothing, and the scriptures will be partially blocked from their understandings. It is basically impossible for any believer to see this unless and until God in Christ leads them to see it in relation to their own sins and temptations.
If Jesus was tempted by Satan do we expect any different for ourselves? Uh, no. Temptation transpires "internally" and that places the tempter "in the flesh, internally" to do so.
I see that Isaiah could be describing the fall of Satan and why but I'm looking for where the Bible describes what you wrote. Can you show me where I can find all of this? For some reason I seemed to have missed where all of this is described even though I've heard a number of stories about Satan prior to the fall.
- That he was "perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill."
- That "God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven."
- That "He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord."
- That "God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God."
- That "As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God."
smaller
Member
I have my doubts that the king/prince of Tyrus was in the Garden of Eden as some other person besides Adam and Eve.
Ezekiel 28:
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God -
Do you believe the Bible ever uses metaphor?
smaller
Member
The actions of Satan as described in Mark 4:15 happened with the very first people, Adam and Eve.
From the moment God blessed them with His Words, Satan "immediately" did his thing that Mark 4:15 shows. Entered, blinded them and stole Gods Words from them both.
When we see Adam and Eve, we should understand what really happened to them, Mark 4:15.
When we do, we won't just see Adam and Eve. We'll see Satan's entry and their sin being "of the devil." 1 John 3:8.
smaller
Member
I believe the scriptures use similitude, allegory, parable and metaphor to describe very real adverse spiritual entities. Yes.
Except that the parable of the sower speaks of a specific word which has nothing to do with Adam and Eve. And 1 John 3:8 does not say that one's "sin is of the devil," but those whose life is characterized by sin are of the devil; "of the devil" is referring to people, not the sin itself.
Except that to find Satan in Eze. 28 is to read into the text. There just is no support for such an idea.
Was the Prince of Tyrus ever in the garden of Eden, no, but God set Lucifer/Satan over it to take care of it, Ezekiel 28:11-19, who do you think the anointed Cherub was in vs. 14. Same with Isaiah 14:12-14 does it say Lucifer or the king of Babylon in vs.12. Both are dual references.
smaller
Member
IF it is not referring to Satan, then we must conclude that either the prince/king of Tyrus was in the Garden of Eden along with Adam and Eve or that the Garden of Eden is a useless reference term. And not only that, but that said king was not a king whatsoever, but an anointed CHERUB. An angelic being.
The prince/king of Tyrus IS a reference term to Satan.
smaller
Member
Really? So, you don't see the captivity of Satan upon ALL unsaved mankind and hence our NEED for our Savior?
The unsaved are not termed "captives" for no reason. They do have a captor. Acts 26:18, Romans 11:8, 2 Cor. 3:14, 2 Cor. 4:4 and Eph. 2:2 ALL address this captivity of Satan and it happens to exactly everyone just as Mark 4:15 dictates.
Read it how you will. I think it's pretty clear, and very contrary to your claim above. And I do NOT think people are DEVILS.
1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.