WHO DID CHRIST JESUS DIE FOR?

[jeremiah1five]

You confuse God's judgment for sin, with natural death that all die because in Adam death is passed on.

When God "kills" a human being, its a relocation. The person still exists, in Hades. On Judgment Day some will rise to life, others to condemnation. Its not over until its over.

When the Israelites were commanded to kill everyone, including woman and children, it was a act of mercy. There weren't any social programs, welfare etc. back then. Life was hard, many didn't live past their 30th birthday.

If the man of the house died in battle, the family starved, cast out of any home they had. Unlike America, they died of starvation and disease, both women and children. And cast out of their land, they would be raped both woman and children, and enslaved or worse.

So they were relocated to the afterlife where they will wait for the resurrection. Both good and bad people are in Sheol/Hades, its only torment for the wicked.

And we can't forget, those people fought God, resisted His plan to give the Land to the Israelites and they were idolatrous. The parents were guilty, not innocent. They could have joined the Israelites.

And you are close to insulting God. I understand you are trying to make a point, but its going to far to say God's love is somehow hate.

What I am saying that you missed is God is RESTRICTIVE to include a Covenant for certain individuals and NOTHING for others. If God loves someone wouldn't He save them? And there was NO "ACCEPT JESUS INTO YOUR HEART' in the Abrahamic Covenant. God had RESPECT to Abraham and his generations and had NO RESPECT for anyone outside His Covenant. They all, millions and millions of people you say God loves, died without God and will be thrown into the Lake of Fire later. These are the people you say God loves? Sounds like a wicked love to me. And if true IT IS!
But thank God it is NOT TRUE.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel [the person] and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain [the person] and to his offering he had not respect. Gen. 4:4–5.

 

[Alfred Persson]

What I am saying that you missed is God is RESTRICTIVE to include a Covenant for certain individuals and NOTHING for others. If God loves someone wouldn't He save them? And there was NO "ACCEPT JESUS INTO YOUR HEART' in the Abrahamic Covenant. God had RESPECT to Abraham and his generations and had NO RESPECT for anyone outside His Covenant. They all, millions and millions of people you say God loves, died without God and will be thrown into the Lake of Fire later. These are the people you say God loves? Sounds like a wicked love to me. And if true IT IS!
But thank God it is NOT TRUE.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel [the person] and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain [the person] and to his offering he had not respect. Gen. 4:4–5.

The writer of Hebrews addresses that issue, saying Christ appeared once in the End Time, to save everyone since the foundation of the world. If they repent and believe in Hades, "eagerly wait for Him," "He will appear a second time....for salvation":

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:24-28 NKJ)

God knew He would do this before He created. He didn't leave anyone out, everyone who wants to can be and will be saved.

God is love, and therefore He will not allow the evil and wicked forever hurt and destroy the righteous. If they don't repent, the Lake of Fire is where they will be cast, body and soul. That is love in action, not hate. You have it reversed.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The writer of Hebrews addresses that issue, saying Christ appeared once in the End Time, to save everyone since the foundation of the world. If they repent and believe in Hades, "eagerly wait for Him," "He will appear a second time....for salvation":

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another--
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Heb. 9:24-28 NKJ)

God knew He would do this before He created. He didn't leave anyone out, everyone who wants to can be and will be saved.

God is love, and therefore He will not allow the evil and wicked forever hurt and destroy the righteous. If they don't repent, the Lake of Fire is where they will be cast, body and soul. That is love in action, not hate. You have it reversed.

The writer is addressing Christians. Believers. Those in Covenant with God.
The Word of God is NOT addressed to unbelievers NOT IN COVENANT with God.
Read it in this context and come to the knowledge of the truth.

If people die outside Covenant with God whether in the OT or the NT, they are eternally lost.
And millions of people NOT in Covenant with God are lost.
Does God love them?
Understand: If God loves 'you' He will save 'you.'
If God doesn't love 'you' He will not save 'you.'
God does not change. He loves and He hates. He is Immutable. His love is Immutable.
His hate is Immutable. He doesn't love 'you' one day and hate 'you' the next. His love and His hate is FIXED!

 

[atpollard]

Christ died for the sins of the whole world, not for us only:

NKJ 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (1 Jn. 2:1-2 NKJ)

I notice that a LOT of people are quick to argue that “world” doesn’t mean “Atonement for all without exception” in John 3:16 (and rightly so given the “whoever believes” qualifier within that same verse making that a legitimately debatable point) but few people seem willing to take on 1 John 2:1-2 directly and attempt to show how Jesus is not the propitiation for all sins without exception [which requires some explaining WHATEVER your position … except the unbiblical universalism].

 

[Tenchi]

To give you the condensed version of the ministry of the high priest, he does two things:
1. He prays for the people of God, and,
2. Offers sacrifices for the people of God.

The high priest DOES NOT pray for the non-Covenant people nor offer sacrifices for the non-Covenant people. He does nothing for the Gentile people not in Covenant with God. And the same ministry was performed by Christ before He went to the cross. He prayed for the people of God and offered sacrifice [Himself] for the people of God. He did nothing for the non-Covenant unbelievers of the world.

???

John 1:26-29 (NASB)
26 John answered them saying, "I baptize in water, but among you stands One whom you do not know.
27 "It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."
28 These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

John 3:16-17 (NASB)
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Hebrews 10:10 (NASB)
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 (NASB)
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Since the Atonement and Resurrection of Christ there has been no one counted by God as one of His own, an adopted child of His, a co-heir with Christ (Romans 8:17), who was not a "non-Covenant" person prior to their spiritual "second birth." See: Ephesians 2:1-3, Colossians 1:21, Titus 3:3, Romans 3:10, 21. Every person now a redeemed child of God was once alienated from God by wicked works and an enemy toward Him in their hearts and minds, bound under the power of the World, the Flesh and the devil. But it was for these very people Jesus became the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." How, then, do you contend that Jesus "did nothing for the non-Covenant unbelievers of the world"? He gave his life as an atoning ransom for them!

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jn. 17.

John 17:1-12 (NASB)
1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
4 "I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.
5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
9 "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;
10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.
11 "I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

As has already been pointed out, the "they" and "them" in the prayer of Jesus in John 17 are specifically the Twelve, not all those who would come to faith in Christ after his Atonement and Resurrection. Though Christ's prayer is for them only, not for all those who would trust in him as their Savior beyond the cross, it is a false dichotomy to assert that the world is therefore excluded from his concern and saving work. The Twelve would have a special work to do in establishing and enlarging the Early Church, communicating what they had been taught by Christ to the world, making disciples of the lost, and so Jesus prays for them in particular in John 17. Christ's concern for them in his prayer doesn't exclude the world, however, but is prayed with a view to the future redemption of the lost in the world.

In other words Christ died for His Church, those whose names are in the book of life and those who are called out of the world (vs. 6)

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25–27.

1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I notice that a LOT of people are quick to argue that “world” doesn’t mean “Atonement for all without exception” in John 3:16 (and rightly so given the “whoever believes” qualifier within that same verse making that a legitimately debatable point) but few people seem willing to take on 1 John 2:1-2 directly and attempt to show how Jesus is not the propitiation for all sins without exception [which requires some explaining WHATEVER your position … except the unbiblical universalism].

Of course Christ's propitiation, available to the entire world, is only achieved by those who believe. I am NOT by any stretch, a universalist.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The writer is addressing Christians. Believers. Those in Covenant with God.
The Word of God is NOT addressed to unbelievers NOT IN COVENANT with God.
Read it in this context and come to the knowledge of the truth.

If people die outside Covenant with God whether in the OT or the NT, they are eternally lost.
And millions of people NOT in Covenant with God are lost.
Does God love them?
Understand: If God loves 'you' He will save 'you.'
If God doesn't love 'you' He will not save 'you.'
God does not change. He loves and He hates. He is Immutable. His love is Immutable.
His hate is Immutable. He doesn't love 'you' one day and hate 'you' the next. His love and His hate is FIXED!

Christ said Christians "shall not come into judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis), but has passed from death into life" (Jn. 5:24 NKJ). That means the "judgment" (2920 κρίσις krisis) in Hebrews 9:27 is deciding what happens to non-Christians after they die, not Christians who have been saved by grace (Eph. 2:5-10).

Your view of God is unscriptural, dark. The survivors of Armageddon who attacked Jerusalem aren't eternally lost, they will keep the "Feast of Tabernacles" with the people of God:

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16 NKJ)

If what you say about God is true, then Paul never would have given this speech in Athens:

21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious;
23 "for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 "Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
26 "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.'
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:21-31 NKJ)

 

[jeremiah1five]

Christ said Christians "shall not come into judgment (2920 κρίσις krisis), but has passed from death into life" (Jn. 5:24 NKJ). That means the "judgment" (2920 κρίσις krisis) in Hebrews 9:27 is deciding what happens to non-Christians after they die, not Christians who have been saved by grace (Eph. 2:5-10).

Your view of God is unscriptural, dark. The survivors of Armageddon who attacked Jerusalem aren't eternally lost, they will keep the "Feast of Tabernacles" with the people of God:

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech. 14:16 NKJ)

If what you say about God is true, then Paul never would have given this speech in Athens:

21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious;
23 "for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 "Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
26 "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
28 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.'
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:21-31 NKJ)

Passed from death unto life, huh?

We still suffer the penalty of sin.
Death.
We still die.
And you haven't addressed all the millions of people in the Old Testament not part of the Covenant of God. God loves everyone? Then why command Joshua to utterly destroy the inhabitants in the Promised Land, all the men, women, children and babies.
What are your thoughts on that? God utterly destroys those He loves?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Passed from death unto life, huh?

We still suffer the penalty of sin.
Death.
We still die.
And you haven't addressed all the millions of people in the Old Testament not part of the Covenant of God. God loves everyone? Then why command Joshua to utterly destroy the inhabitants in the Promised Land, all the men, women, children and babies.
What are your thoughts on that? God utterly destroys those He loves?

You are repeating yourself, Posts #20 and #22 already answered those issues.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You are repeating yourself, Posts #20 and #22 already answered those issues.

No you didn't Al.

You say God loves everyone but He killed a great many people to get His people in the Promised Land. Seems the god you believe in has a weak love that can't save.
Or doesn't.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No you didn't Al.

You say God loves everyone but He killed a great many people to get His people in the Promised Land. Seems the god you believe in has a weak love that can't save.
Or doesn't.

I cited the text proving all those driven out of the Holy Land, knew they should have left and not try to fight God:

9 and said to the men: "I know that the LORD has given you the land, that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land are fainthearted because of you.
10 "For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were on the other side of the Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed.
11 "And as soon as we heard these things, our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
12 "Now therefore, I beg you, swear to me by the LORD, since I have shown you kindness, that you also will show kindness to my father's house, and give me a true token,
13 "and spare my father, my mother, my brothers, my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death."
14 So the men answered her, "Our lives for yours, if none of you tell this business of ours. And it shall be, when the LORD has given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with you." (Jos. 2:9-14 NKJ)


Adam and Eve got kicked out of paradise because they transgressed God's command. God could have ended humanity then, but before God created He foreknew billions of humans that He wants to spend eternity with.

But they won't come into existence if God doesn't let things continue, and they are born.

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Rom. 9:22-24 NKJ)

We will be showered with God's love so everything that was bad, won't be remembered at all:

"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. (Isa. 65:17 NKJ)

NKJ Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
7 "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall.
16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal.
17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.
18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald,
20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.
21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.
24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it.
25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there).
26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.
27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. (Rev. 21:1-27 NKJ)

Unlike you, I blame Satan first, mankind second for everything bad on the planet. Even after Adam sinned, every generation could have repented and confessed to God the error of their ways. And God would have healed them.

They did not. Each generation of humans replicates the sins of the ones gone before. Therefore, all that is bad us on us, its our fault and we'd be without hope for anything different, without God.

But because God is who He is, and does indeed love us (proving that by sending His only begotten Son to save us) we have a glorious hope, a wonderful future.


Unlike you, I can only praise God for His goodness, for being who He is. I thank Him continually, for having mercy upon a wretch like me. Imagine, the infinite Creator of all things, answered my cry for help! I can't fathom it, its beyond my comprehension, the love He has shown me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No you didn't Al.

You say God loves everyone but He killed a great many people to get His people in the Promised Land. Seems the god you believe in has a weak love that can't save.
Or doesn't.

As Rahab observed, everyone knew it was time to go, but instead like Pharaoh they thought they could fight God and win. We know they were all destroyed for their foolishness, for their evil.

But look what happens if people repent and cry out to God for Mercy, He gives it:

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day's walk. Then he cried out and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them.
6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water.
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it. (Jon. 3:4-10 NKJ)

So it was with all those driven from the land God gave to Israel. They could have repented, joined Israel, served Yahweh God helping Israel establish themselves in the God given land. But they didn't, they fought against God and lost. And I should feel pity for them? I do not.

If I were there, the words of God would be like frontlets before my eyes, so I see them clearly always, when I lay down, when I get up and when I am about in the way:

16 "And you shall destroy all the peoples whom the LORD your God delivers over to you; your eye shall have no pity on them; nor shall you serve their gods, for that will be a snare to you.
17 "If you should say in your heart,`These nations are greater than I; how can I dispossess them?'--
18 "you shall not be afraid of them, but you shall remember well what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt:
19 "the great trials which your eyes saw, the signs and the wonders, the mighty hand and the outstretched arm, by which the LORD your God brought you out. So shall the LORD your God do to all the peoples of whom you are afraid.
20 "Moreover the LORD your God will send the hornet among them until those who are left, who hide themselves from you, are destroyed.
21 "You shall not be terrified of them; for the LORD your God, the great and awesome God, is among you.
22 "And the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you little by little; you will be unable to destroy them at once, lest the beasts of the field become too numerous for you.
23 "But the LORD your God will deliver them over to you, and will inflict defeat upon them until they are destroyed.
24 "And He will deliver their kings into your hand, and you will destroy their name from under heaven; no one shall be able to stand against you until you have destroyed them.
25 "You shall burn the carved images of their gods with fire; you shall not covet the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be snared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God.
26 "Nor shall you bring an abomination into your house, lest you be doomed to destruction like it. You shall utterly detest it and utterly abhor it, for it is an accursed thing. (Deut. 7:16-8:1 NKJ)

They perished because of their abominations, their fornication with demons. They could have repented, but they did not. Therefore, they were destroyed. And my eye does not pity such fools.

The same will happen to the followers of Satan and the Beast, they will be destroyed from under the heavens.

We are in the new covenant in Christ's blood, our days of fighting flesh and blood are over. We now wrestle with spiritual forces of darkness. But if you cannot understand the earth is the LORD's and He does with it what He wills, I can't help you at all.

 

[JLB]

To give you the condensed version of the ministry of the high priest, he does two things:
1. He prays for the people of God, and,
2. Offers sacrifices for the people of God.

The high priest DOES NOT pray for the non-Covenant people nor offer sacrifices for the non-Covenant people. He does nothing for the Gentile people not in Covenant with God. And the same ministry was performed by Christ before He went to the cross. He prayed for the people of God and offered sacrifice [Himself] for the people of God. He did nothing for the non-Covenant unbelievers of the world.

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jn. 17.

Martin Luther once called the prayer of Christ in John 17 as 'the holy of holies' prayer. But although Christ offered Himself as sacrifice for those whom the Father gave the Son, Christ did not offer sacrifice nor prayed for the non-Covenant people of the world:

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Jn. 17:6.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Jn. 17:9.

In other words Christ died for His Church, those whose names are in the book of life and those who are called out of the world (vs. 6)

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Eph. 5:25–27.

Jesus Christ caps it all off when He was dying on the cross by saying:

34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; Lk. 23:34.

And to know the identity of "THEM" all you have to do is read through John 17 and take notice of the two groups of people in this chapter: "THEM" and "the world."

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16






JLB

 

[Alfred Persson]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16






JLB

Upon reflection, you did with one verse what I was trying to do in 5 or more posts; prove God's love for the world. Thank you.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No you didn't Al.

You say God loves everyone but He killed a great many people to get His people in the Promised Land. Seems the god you believe in has a weak love that can't save.
Or doesn't.

One final observation. You don't know all things, your perspective on this is like an ant looking at a skyscraper. You cannot know why God does what He does.

One day God will reveal to us the reasons why things "went down" as they did, and it will cause all to burst out in praise, we will see the genius, the righteousness, the justice of God when His judgments are made manifest:

Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all nations shall come and worship before You, For Your judgments have been manifested." (Rev. 15:4 NKJ)

I believe the Sermon on the Mount reveals a "reversal" will take place, all who suffered in this fallen realm will have things reversed, in a sense they will be "compensated for their trouble."

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
(Matt. 5:1-9 NKJ)

As it is written:

3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:3-4 NKJ)

 

[jeremiah1five]

As Rahab observed, everyone knew it was time to go, but instead like Pharaoh they thought they could fight God and win. We know they were all destroyed for their foolishness, for their evil.

But look what happens if people repent and cry out to God for Mercy, He gives it:

4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day's walk. Then he cried out and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them.
6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water.
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it. (Jon. 3:4-10 NKJ)

So it was with all those driven from the land God gave to Israel. They could have repented, joined Israel, served Yahweh God helping Israel establish themselves in the God given land. But they didn't, they fought against God and lost. And I should feel pity for them? I do not.

If I were there, the words of God would be like frontlets before my eyes, so I see them clearly always, when I lay down, when I get up and when I am about in the way:

16 "And you shall destroy all the peoples whom the LORD your God delivers over to you; your eye shall have no pity on them; nor shall you serve their gods, for that will be a snare to you.
17 "If you should say in your heart,`These nations are greater than I; how can I dispossess them?'--
18 "you shall not be afraid of them, but you shall remember well what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt:
19 "the great trials which your eyes saw, the signs and the wonders, the mighty hand and the outstretched arm, by which the LORD your God brought you out. So shall the LORD your God do to all the peoples of whom you are afraid.
20 "Moreover the LORD your God will send the hornet among them until those who are left, who hide themselves from you, are destroyed.
21 "You shall not be terrified of them; for the LORD your God, the great and awesome God, is among you.
22 "And the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you little by little; you will be unable to destroy them at once, lest the beasts of the field become too numerous for you.
23 "But the LORD your God will deliver them over to you, and will inflict defeat upon them until they are destroyed.
24 "And He will deliver their kings into your hand, and you will destroy their name from under heaven; no one shall be able to stand against you until you have destroyed them.
25 "You shall burn the carved images of their gods with fire; you shall not covet the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be snared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God.
26 "Nor shall you bring an abomination into your house, lest you be doomed to destruction like it. You shall utterly detest it and utterly abhor it, for it is an accursed thing. (Deut. 7:16-8:1 NKJ)

They perished because of their abominations, their fornication with demons. They could have repented, but they did not. Therefore, they were destroyed. And my eye does not pity such fools.

The same will happen to the followers of Satan and the Beast, they will be destroyed from under the heavens.

We are in the new covenant in Christ's blood, our days of fighting flesh and blood are over. We now wrestle with spiritual forces of darkness. But if you cannot understand the earth is the LORD's and He does with it what He wills, I can't help you at all.

Men cannot repent unless repentance if first granted by God.
Everything about salvation is a gift of God. Men hate God. They don't seek Him.
Unless God grants it.

 

[jeremiah1five]

One final observation. You don't know all things, your perspective on this is like an ant looking at a skyscraper. You cannot know why God does what He does.

One day God will reveal to us the reasons why things "went down" as they did, and it will cause all to burst out in praise, we will see the genius, the righteousness, the justice of God when His judgments are made manifest:

Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all nations shall come and worship before You, For Your judgments have been manifested." (Rev. 15:4 NKJ)

I believe the Sermon on the Mount reveals a "reversal" will take place, all who suffered in this fallen realm will have things reversed, in a sense they will be "compensated for their trouble."

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him.
2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn, For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
(Matt. 5:1-9 NKJ)

As it is written:

3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:3-4 NKJ)

Of course I can know.

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Deut. 29:29.

It's all about knowing the Word of God.
God doesn't raise up idiots. We do that by ourselves when we fail to grasp His Word.
Sin is a factor, too.

 

[atpollard]

Men cannot repent unless repentance if first granted by God.
Everything about salvation is a gift of God. Men hate God. They don't seek Him.
Unless God grants it.

Absolutely true.

Yet we must be honest (at least with ourselves). God FORCES no one to do evil ... we do evil because we desire to do evil. That we will not desire to do good unless "God is at work in us, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure." [Philippians 2:13] does not negate the fact that the evil we do, we chose to do because we desired to do it.

Mankind does have a type of "Free Will" ... a WILL that is free to follow its fallen nature and enslaved-to-sin desires until and unless God intervenes. As it says over and over in Romans 1: "Therefore God gave them up to ..." [the sinful desires come from within US and not from God].

 

[atpollard]

WHO DID CHRIST JESUS DIE FOR?​

I have thought long and hard on this question and have only one answer with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY ... me.
(Somehow, that is enough to make my heart leap with joy.)

 

[jeremiah1five]

WHO DID CHRIST JESUS DIE FOR?​

I have thought long and hard on this question and have only one answer with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY ... me.
(Somehow, that is enough to make my heart leap with joy.)

We can only answer the question subjectively.
We cannot go around saying "God loves you" to everyone we meet that are not saved BECAUSE we can never know who's in the book of life and destined for salvation.
We can only discern a person's salvation AFTER the fact.

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 Jn 4.