As I remember, the Apostles were long dead before the books of the Bible were assembled and canonized. So whether there were books deleted or added might be up for debate. I trust that God had a hand in it.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Who has authority to decide scripture?
- Thread starter Bible
- Start date
Truthfrees
Member
i understand what you are saying - thank you for your input
i guess in this case where it really reads "you are little rock and on this huge mountain i will build my church" there is no english translation that clarified that
my question is why not? - it is simple to clarify - there is no complicated translation gymnastics to do - when i first started learning ancient greek and hebrew i asked a bible scholar this question about all the things i as a young person found - he said most bible scholars are not believers - so they feel no obligation to represent God properly in their translations
what i just showed you with little rock vs huge mountain size rock has led people to think God was building His church on peter - it is very important translators represent God honestly
Truthfrees
Member
Holy Spirit was sent to take His place - 1 John 2:27 - John 14:26
God never relinquished His jurisdiction over His people to any man - everyone always has and always will answer to God for everything
Petros is masculine, petra is feminine. So "your name is Peter" (a man) and "on this rock (feminine) basis I will build my church".
Never forget that very shortly thereafter the Lord called Peter "Satan" so it's clear that the church would not be built on Peter the man, but on the (feminine) declaration that Jesus is the Christ of God.
Never forget that very shortly thereafter the Lord called Peter "Satan" so it's clear that the church would not be built on Peter the man, but on the (feminine) declaration that Jesus is the Christ of God.
Truthfrees
Member
correct - petros little rock is masculine
petra huge mountain size rock is feminine
so God is building His church on something feminine which for sure is not peter
and it is also not mary
There are 2 billion Christians and it is a half-half situation. It means if Protestant churches don't exist, part of the Protestant Christians may be lost if they choose not to be a Catholic. God is to maximize the number of humans to be saved.
The first authority is not given to the Catholic Christians. It is given to the Jewish authority. Since they failed to accept Jesus that by the words of "bind and loose", the authority shifted from the Jews to Christians (later the Catholic Church). That is, authentication shifts when human representative went corrupt, as the the Jews did.
It underwent a similar authority shift that Protestants are given the authority. That's why the Jews are keeping a correct OT Canon, as OT is their testimony and their canonization. The Catholics are keeping a correct version of NT because it's a testimony of the Apostles and canonization of early Christians. Now only the Protestants can have both a correct Canon of NT and a correct Canon of OT.
God has an authenticated representative on earth all the times. God's earthly Church now is an intangible entity governed by the Apostles' Creed, as Protestant churches is not a singular entity. Instead they are identified by the faith statements in Apostles' Creed, of which the Catholic Church is just one of these churches reckoning the Apostles' Creed.
This way, people don't accept the corrupted form of Catholics can join a Protestant church. People with different minds can join churches holding the diffferent denominations. The bottom line is they believe the same message of salvation governed by the Apostles' Creed. This way, God saves more people than if Catholics remains a single church.
Daniel 12:4 (NIV2011)
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.
One of the reasons why people divide in modern societies is their desire to seek knowledge, and thus disagree with each other. Multiple denominations but a single message of salvation will accommodate the different kinds of people in today's world.
The first authority is not given to the Catholic Christians. It is given to the Jewish authority. Since they failed to accept Jesus that by the words of "bind and loose", the authority shifted from the Jews to Christians (later the Catholic Church). That is, authentication shifts when human representative went corrupt, as the the Jews did.
It underwent a similar authority shift that Protestants are given the authority. That's why the Jews are keeping a correct OT Canon, as OT is their testimony and their canonization. The Catholics are keeping a correct version of NT because it's a testimony of the Apostles and canonization of early Christians. Now only the Protestants can have both a correct Canon of NT and a correct Canon of OT.
God has an authenticated representative on earth all the times. God's earthly Church now is an intangible entity governed by the Apostles' Creed, as Protestant churches is not a singular entity. Instead they are identified by the faith statements in Apostles' Creed, of which the Catholic Church is just one of these churches reckoning the Apostles' Creed.
This way, people don't accept the corrupted form of Catholics can join a Protestant church. People with different minds can join churches holding the diffferent denominations. The bottom line is they believe the same message of salvation governed by the Apostles' Creed. This way, God saves more people than if Catholics remains a single church.
Daniel 12:4 (NIV2011)
But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.
One of the reasons why people divide in modern societies is their desire to seek knowledge, and thus disagree with each other. Multiple denominations but a single message of salvation will accommodate the different kinds of people in today's world.
My question was… Where in scripture does it say Daniel 13 is scripture?
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18
Sorry but this scripture doesn’t mention any Daniel 13.
The rock or foundation the Church is built upon is Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Here is the context —
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:15-18
JLB
It is on peter
Or else
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession?
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23
God always establishes order in the obedience to hierarchical authority!
Matt 23 the successors of Moses had the keys of authority (open and shut) and the power to bind and loose in the seat or chair of Moses (also called a cathedral) and Christ says they MUST be obeyed!
Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter matt 16:18 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
God is still in charge of his church yes but thru the authority granted to his apostles
And the HS still leads them into all truth Jn 8:32 16:13
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 mph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
Eph 5:24 the church is subject to christ
And we must be subject to those who are his ministers and represent his person
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
The rock is Peter’s person
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession?
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23
God always establishes order in the obedience to hierarchical authority!
Matt 23 the successors of Moses had the keys of authority (open and shut) and the power to bind and loose in the seat or chair of Moses (also called a cathedral) and Christ says they MUST be obeyed!
Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter matt 16:18 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Matthew 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18 give Peter and the apostles the authority to bind on earth and in 381 the apostles with the authority of Christ set the canon of scripture
Including dan 13 & 14
Why would you have a problem with dan 13 anyway? It does not establish some great catholic doctrine
Maybe you prefer the tradition of men to scripture
Both in the KJV and the five Protestant dogmas (Solas)
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:15-18
As others have plainly shown you, Peter and “rock” are two different Greek works, one being masculine and one feminine.
The rock, or foundation the Church is built upon is that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of the living God.
The Church is not built upon Peter.
JLB
Truthfrees
Member
what you attribute to a chosen few God says about all His children - those verses are about all believers
Truthfrees
Member
it's on everyone to submit to God - it's called walking in the Spirit - follow God - - Galatians 5:25 - 1 John 2:27 - John 14:26
Then Matt 28:19 is commanded of all believers?
Read it and you will see how ridiculous that is
Believers ain’t enough
Believer is only a catechumen and not a Christian
The church is governed by a hierarchical authority founded by christ on Peter and the apostles (priesthood)
Truthfrees
Member
yes - have you thought it is only for a few?
do you think you are exempt from telling others how to start a lasting relationship with God?
what are you here on earth for then? - is your life on earth all about yourself?
There are no personal relationships with Christ no personal savior or salvation
There is only one new covenant we must enter by faith and baptism 1 cor 12:13
We have a common salvation Jude 1:3
Must put on Christ by baptism gal 3:27
Jn 16:13 the HS leads the apostles (hierarchical priesthood) into all truth, then they are to teach all nations math 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8
Truthfrees
Member
so you are going to leave it all to peter to do the work while you do what?
read all those verses you attribute peter - see how peter was not mentioned in any of them - believers/disciples were - are you a believer/disciple? - if not then what are you? - where are you mentioned in scripture?
It's important to remember that shortly after Peter called Jesus "the Son of the living God” in Matthew 16:17, he overstepped his place and Jesus said in verse 23, "... Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.” I hardly think that there is evidence here that the church was built on Peter, the fallible man, instead of his statement "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Truthfrees
Member
amen - another good reason why God alone is the head - and all of His children are the body - no man comes anywhere close to qualifying to be the head of the body - and certainly not peter - he appears to flip flop on serious issues all through his life - imo the apostles were not an example of the cream of the crop - they were an example of the worst of the crop - meaning God wants people to know that even the least can be used by God