Who is the antichrist?

[Who Says]

Your speculations are silly see above This is one of the most ridiculous posts I ve read here.

It is a lot to think about in few words, isn't it.

But that is what the antichrist would do in his subtleness. And since we are not the antichrist we need not be incensed to consider it.

But this is indeed how the antichrist works, through such subtilty:
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Hitch]

It is a lot to think about in few words, isn't it.

But that is what the antichrist would do in his subtleness. And since we are not the antichrist we need not be incensed to consider it.

But this is indeed how the antichrist works, through such subtilty:
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Nothing subtle in teaching that Jesus is anything but God incarnate. Though often subtleties are employed.
Caiaphas was anything but subtle,so to Herod, Nero, but then there are always the Gnostics and such.

 

[Who Says]

Nothing subtle in teaching that Jesus is anything but God incarnate. Though often subtleties are employed.

1. 
   

Point well taken. I am not promoting either view over the other.

I am simply showing that the trait of the antichrist would be to use knowledge in a subtle way that violates love and thus tears down the holiness that is Christ as Paul speaks concerning at 1 Cor 8:1.

Knowledge apart from love is not only useless to us but dangerous:
1 Corinthians 13:1 ¶If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[Sam21]

This is kind of an answer to a post above, actually in this realm, truth or being correct in the word of God is more important than love and more important than faith. There are people who love with passion and have incredible faith but who are headed for hell because they are not in the truth of God. It may seem awful that christians bicker over what the bible does and does not say, however life and death can be in the balance in some cases, to believe the truth is to be saved and to believe a lie is to be damned.

 

[Who Says]

This is kind of an answer to a post above, actually in this realm, truth or being correct in the word of God is more important than love and more important than faith. There are people who love with passion and have incredible faith but who are headed for hell because they are not in the truth of God. It may seem awful that christians bicker over what the bible does and does not say, however life and death can be in the balance in some cases, to believe the truth is to be saved and to believe a lie is to be damned.

But are we talking about loving after the example of those who are headed for hell because they do not love as Christ loved and as men like Paul examplified to us?

Or are we talking about loving after the example of Christ and men like Paul who we can be sure loved rightly?

So you are comparing apples with oranges. And the scripture I quoted at 1 Cor 13 and 1 Cor 8:1 as well as many of Jesus own words speak saying love is the more important thing when it is God's love. Surely you don't really deny that.

 

[Hitch]

Point well taken. I am not promoting either view over the other.

well its time you did

I am simply showing that the trait of the antichrist would be to use knowledge in a subtle way that violates love and thus tears down the holiness that is Christ as Paul speaks concerning at 1 Cor 8:1.

No you're not. What you're doing is speculating to support some doctrinal nothing you adhere to

Knowledge apart from love is not only useless to us but dangerous:
1 Corinthians 13:1 ¶If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[Who Says]

well its time you did

Yes, it probably is. LOL

No you're not. What you're doing is speculating to support some doctrinal nothing you adhere to

Don't let Elijah here you say that. You know how he says he feels about mind readers.

Actually, whether you accept it of not, I was talking about that one specific text and what it showed about Jesus way of handling things.

Sorry if you feel you must see it differently.

 

[Hitch]

Yes, it probably is. LOL

Until you do so there is no reason to take you seriously.

Don't let Elijah here you say that. You know how he says he feels about mind readers.

And you've spent a half hour telling us all the mind of antichrist? hmmm

Actually, whether you accept it of not, I was talking about that one specific text and what it showed about Jesus way of handling things.

Actually it showed Jesus in a single instance and its quite a stretch from John's definition of antiChrist to the passage you quoted.

Sorry if you feel you must see it differently.

 

[Who Says]

Until you do so there is no reason to take you seriously. And you've spent a half hour telling us all the mind of antichrist? hmmm Actually it showed Jesus in a single instance and its quite a stretch from John's definition of antiChrist to the passage you quoted.

Sorry if my words have somehow offended you. they are meant to love you and help you by sharing the wisdom imparted to us in scripture.

Nothing more.

Be at peace. :waving

 

[Hitch]

Sorry if my words have somehow offended you.

Originally Posted by Hitch
Nothing subtle in teaching that Jesus is anything but God incarnate. Though often subtleties are employed.

Point well taken. I am not promoting either view over the other.



Somehow?? I was clear

Until you do so there is no reason to take you seriously.

they are meant to love you and help you by sharing the wisdom imparted to us in scripture.

Nothing more.

Be at peace. :waving[/QUOTE]

 

[reba]

Who is the antichrist?

The question is asked as if it a forgone conclusion he/it is a man?

 

[Who Says]

Who is the antichrist?

The question is asked as if it a forgone conclusion he/it is a man?

What does our righteous indignation really communicate to us?

Back in my self-sure days I used to argue that the tares and the wheat are completely separate and distinct individuals. After much refining by means of the fiery torment of tribulations which I now today admit I brought largely upon myself, I have come to see that for the most part the tares and the wheat are the war of the flesh and the spirit even right within us.

It is a competition of our flesh against our spirit and we are not really completely a tare or completely wheat until one or the other has won that race.

The trait of the wheat is its calmness after the peace of God’s love. The trait of the tare is its fiery torment after the hate of the anger it feels.

These things are evident to us long before they become evident to others. And that is our best time to work on them. But the expression “it’s too late” ought to be stricken from our vocabulary for it is never too late until we are dead. As long as there is a hint of life left in our bodies and the power of breath to repent, we can do so.

So then we see Esau of whom it was said: Hebrews 12:17 “For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.”

And that is but one more place where I had to mature before I could understand it. Does that verse say that Esau had lost any hope of salvation? I used to say yes it did. Now I understand that all Paul is there saying is that Esau had lost his chance for that particular blessing which he had foolishly tossed away and that now God was not allowing Esau to repent that decision. But I understand that this blessing was about kingdom rule in association with Christ and not about Esau’s total salvation. In other words, now Esau’s hope was as a subject of Christ’s kingdom rather than one of its kings and priests ruling with Christ.

My point is that the way I used to understand that scripture made me subtly see God as unforgiving of our human weakness and ready to destroy us. But now I know I was wrong.

My point is that what we believe has a subtle effect upon us for the worse or the better, even what we believe as to things that seem rather innocent of themselves.

In my own self confrontation I had to come to admit that when I burned like a tare the problem was not external to me, but in me and caused by what I believe. And that is good because that I can do something about. If the burning in me were righteous indignation by the sins of others as I had been passing it off to be, that was beyond my power to do anything with other than to try justifying myself.

It is the extreme unchecked condition of this that becomes the antichrist.

And as misery loves company so like men join together as one mightier man in a united effort to justify themselves to the world.

 

[Hitch]

Stop by Occam's a take a shave will ya?

 

[AKJVReader]

Matthew 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one

Just thinking, if the seed is declared a wheat then it cannot be a tare, though they may look like the same at times. So the children of the kingdom cannot be children of the wicked one.

 

[Hitch]

Matthew 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed taresamong the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one

Just thinking, if the seed is declared a wheat then it cannot be a tare, though they may look like the same at times. So the children of the kingdom cannot be children of the wicked one.

Yup.

 

[Who Says]

Matthew 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed taresamong the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one

Just thinking, if the seed is declared a wheat then it cannot be a tare, though they may look like the same at times. So the children of the kingdom cannot be children of the wicked one.

That is word for word what I myself have said. But they are not revealed until the harvest. Until that time what we need to see is what Jesus said in that first parable of Matthew 13. And that is that the soil is each man's human heart. And the wicked one is not the tares but is Satan. Just as the good seed is sown into the individual man's heart, so also Satan sows his tares in that same heart right alongside.

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Satan catches it away by sowing something into that one and the same heart to choke out the good seed.

So the field is the world and the soil is the human hearts.

This sets up that contest in us to either prove we are sons of our father in heaven as Jesus talks about in Matthew 5:45 or prove that we are children of the wicked one as Jesus talks about at John 8:44.

And by the time of the harvest we have proved which.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Galatians 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

You see, where this gets confusing is that we see separate children of the wicked one as opposed to the children of the righteous one.

But we know that reality. There dwells nothing good in our flesh Paul tells us. Our fleshly man is the child of the wicked one by nature.

Romans 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."

But the spiritual man is the child of God by nature.

So what Jesus said there is completely true of what I have said here. And Jesus is portraying the competition of those two for our sakes.

By the time of the harvest we will be all one or the other. It is up to each of us not to let that happen to our self just as Paul said.

 

[Who Says]

And so our first lesson from Jesus to help us know how to deal with the antichrist is that we clear his potential out of our self.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
1 Thessalonians 3:12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1 Thessalonians 4:9 ¶But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1 John 3:11 ¶For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
1 John 3:23 ¶And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 4:7 ¶Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
2 John 1:5 ¶And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

This is how we make ourselves holy. Knowledge must only ever assist that but never supercede it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

opposer's of the Truth are antichrist !

Notice one of the characteristics paul gives of this Antichrist:

2 thess 2:

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

earlier we defined the word opposeth as the greek word

antikeimai

Now this word is made up of two other greek root words anti which means over against and keimai which means:

to lie
a) of an infant
b) of one buried
c) of things that quietly cover some spot
1) of a city situated on a hill
d) of things put or set in any place, in ref. to which we often use "to stand"

1) of vessels, of a throne, of the site of a city, of grain and other things laid up together, of a foundation

metaph.

a) to be (by God's intent) set, i.e. destined, appointed

b) of laws, to be made, laid down

c) lies in the power of the evil one, i.e. is held in subjection by the devil

This opposing is appointed by God, destined and purposed by God and it lies in the power of the evil one the devil..

This is when God loosed Satan for that appointed time in the end to deceive the Nations rev 20:

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season


7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So this is the appointed time that God will send false religion a strong delusion by the activity of Satan deceiving the false church with false gospels and teachings. notice 2 thess 2:

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, this Man of Sin, the Antichrist is not one individual but many Just as the Man of God in 2 tim 3:17

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

This does not refer to one Individual, but all the Teachers of God..

So the Man of sin applies to all the False teachers of Satan, His ministers 2 cor 11:

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.







​

 

[Hitch]

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Well Who does your doctrine of Christ conform to John's or not?

Do you have enough love to render a simple straight forward answer? This is basically the same question I asked twice last evening and I didint see a direct response from you , except

Originally Posted by Who Says
Point well taken. I am not promoting either view over the other.

 

[Who Says]

opposer's of the Truth are antichrist !

Notice one of the characteristics paul gives of this Antichrist:

2 thess 2:

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

earlier we defined the word opposeth as the greek word

antikeimai

Now this word is made up of two other greek root words anti which means over against and keimai which means:

to lie
a) of an infant
b) of one buried
c) of things that quietly cover some spot
1) of a city situated on a hill
d) of things put or set in any place, in ref. to which we often use "to stand"

1) of vessels, of a throne, of the site of a city, of grain and other things laid up together, of a foundation

metaph.

a) to be (by God's intent) set, i.e. destined, appointed

b) of laws, to be made, laid down

c) lies in the power of the evil one, i.e. is held in subjection by the devil

This opposing is appointed by God, destined and purposed by God and it lies in the power of the evil one the devil..

This is when God loosed Satan for that appointed time in the end to deceive the Nations rev 20:

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season


7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So this is the appointed time that God will send false religion a strong delusion by the activity of Satan deceiving the false church with false gospels and teachings. notice 2 thess 2:

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Again, this Man of Sin, the Antichrist is not one individual but many Just as the Man of God in 2 tim 3:17

That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

This does not refer to one Individual, but all the Teachers of God..

So the Man of sin applies to all the False teachers of Satan, His ministers 2 cor 11:

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.







​

Amen.

This is why we see that God commands the Locust of Joel as his army:

Joel 2:25 "And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you."

And that is possibly involved in the identity of Abaddon. Though one open mindfully must also admit that king could be Satan as the king whom God manipulates to use his army as God wills.

My point is simply that we can find agreement apart from arguing that yet allows us to see who that army is as born out of the flesh having let that flesh conquer them.

If I have to hate you because of knowledge I would rather remain ignorant. And I do not believe that God anywhere gives us knowledge to use to hate.

So if I cannot agree with your logic I would rather see it as cute and imaginative so long as you are injuring no one with it and I would hope you would view what you cannot understand of my reasoning as cute and imaginative so long as I also use it to injure no one.

That way we maintain the peace of God that allows us all to grow and mature at our own pace, trust it in God's hands to care about our individual needs. And that frees us to truly be of encouragement to one another after the image of the holiness of Christ.

Amen?