Who is the Devil

[follower of Christ]

but if you notice Satan was referred to as Satan, the devil or the dragon never and arch angel or Lucifer.

Irrelevant.
Why would he be called 'accuser' BEFORE he began to do evil and was cast out of heaven ?
And we DO KNOW he fell from heaven, friend...like it or not.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Your illogical arguments never cease to astound and amaze.

 

[Benoni]

Like all things that do not fit in your preconceived religious box you try to spin them instead of give a valid answer? This is a valid question; you speak of harmony of scripture where the harmony is when a doctrine proclaims one thing and God’s Word proclaims another.

So explain to me how Satan has two beginnings?

YOU are the one playing the game with scripture to come up with that nonsense...not me ;)

 

[walter]

Who says archangels aren't created beings?

I do not believe that archangels being created or not is the issue with Benoni. The question is; was Satan an angel at all?
Bubba

I believe to be given dominion over the Earth he would have to be an archangel or higher. Remember he offerd Jesus the things that were in his power to give.

 

[follower of Christ]

My point about evil no matter how bad it gets God is soverign over all things. No one pulls the wool over His divine plan and purpose. That is why Satan is a created being not an arch angel. It was God who created the waster.

it no more destroys GODS plan that Lucifer, an angel, CHOSE to rebel against God than it does for Adam to rebel against God.
God IS sovereign and so he cast the being we call Satan down from heaven....and God also cast Adam from the garden.
Neither thwarts GODS sovereignty or His plan.

Good grief man, get your arguments and your logic together...

 

[Benoni]

I answered this question already the word angel is not in the original language, it simply means messenger. Yes Satan was a messenger.

Sure archangels are created beings; but this does not make Satan Lucifer.

Who says archangels aren't created beings?

I do not believe that archangels being created or not is the issue with Benoni. The question is; was Satan an angel at all?
Bubba

 

[follower of Christ]

Like all things that do not fit in your preconceived religious box you try to spin them instead of give a valid answer? This is a valid question; you speak of harmony of scripture where the harmony is when a doctrine proclaims one thing and God’s Word proclaims another.

So explain to me how Satan has two beginnings?

YOU are the one playing the game with scripture to come up with that nonsense...not me ;)

There is no valid question.
*I* didnt SAY that satan had 2 beginnings...YOU came up with that nonsense....so YOU try to explain it.

 

[follower of Christ]

I answered this question already the word angel is not in the original language, it simply means messenger. Yes Satan was a messenger.

Oh good grief. Thanks for the bible lesson there...
I think we ALL KNOW HERE that 'angel = messenger'..and WAY before you decided to bestow your great wealth of knowledge upon us....

Satan WAS a 'messenger'....ie Satan WAS an 'angel'.
And NOW he is a FALLEN angel....thus Jesus saying He saw him cast out of heaven.
Whew...

Sure archangels are created beings; but this does not make Satan Lucifer.

It doesnt make him NOT Lucifer either.
Some of your threads are really just a waste of time and energy...ya know ?

 

[Benoni]

I agree... Neither thwarts GODS sovereignty or His plan.

Point being Satan did not choose to rebel; God created Satan as a waster, a murderer a liar from his beginning. To many give Satan far too much power, Like I said he is god of the earth; not God of the earth.

My point about evil no matter how bad it gets God is soverign over all things. No one pulls the wool over His divine plan and purpose. That is why Satan is a created being not an arch angel. It was God who created the waster.

it no more destroys GODS plan that Lucifer, an angel, CHOSE to rebel against God than it does for Adam to rebel against God.
God IS sovereign and so he cast the being we call Satan down from heaven....and God also cast Adam from the garden.
Neither thwarts GODS sovereignty or His plan.

Good grief man, get your arguments and your logic together...

 

[walter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

I know wiki isn't the most reliable but there are some interesting infos here.

 

[Benoni]

Then you explain to me how Satan has two beginnings instead of spinning the question...

I answered this question already the word angel is not in the original language, it simply means messenger. Yes Satan was a messenger.

Oh good grief. Thanks for the bible lesson there...
I think we ALL KNOW HERE that 'angel = messenger'..and WAY before you decided to bestow your great wealth of knowledge upon us....

Satan WAS a 'messenger'....ie Satan WAS an 'angel'.
And NOW he is a FALLEN angel....thus Jesus saying He saw him cast out of heaven.
Whew...

Sure archangels are created beings; but this does not make Satan Lucifer.

It doesnt make him NOT Lucifer either.
Some of your threads are really just a waste of time and energy...ya know ?

 

[walter]

Fellas! Slow down and take a breath!

Check this out!

http://www.israelofgod.org/lucifer.htm

 

[Benoni]

I love this

Fellas! Slow down and take a breath!

Check this out!

http://www.israelofgod.org/lucifer.htm

 

[walter]

Check out the roots. Old Frank is telling the truth about that.

http://www.abasiccurriculum.com/homeschool/roots/roma/

Now whether the original word in Ezekial is correct I'm stillworking on it.

 

[Bubba]

Benoni,
For clarity, are you saying Satan is not an angel?
Bubba

 

[Benoni]

The word angel simply means messenger; many time there are heavenly messengers as well as in some cases earthy messenger, you must weigh each verse closely. Satan is a spirit; not an angel or a man; but my point is his powers are limited; not like God who is all powerful. Satan has no power unless God ordained it. We give him way too much power the idea that some how he can pull the wool over God’s eyes is just plain carnal.

Benoni,
For clarity, are you saying Satan is not an angel?
Bubba

 

[Orion]

Does a being "chose to rebel" if it is created to do so?

"....a liar fron the beginning..."

 

[Relic]

My point about evil no matter how bad it gets God is soverign over all things. No one pulls the wool over His divine plan and purpose. That is why Satan is a created being not an arch angel. It was God who created the waster.

it no more destroys GODS plan that Lucifer, an angel, CHOSE to rebel against God than it does for Adam to rebel against God.
God IS sovereign and so he cast the being we call Satan down from heaven....and God also cast Adam from the garden.
Neither thwarts GODS sovereignty or His plan.

Good grief man, get your arguments and your logic together...

follower of Christ,

I just want to thank you and relay my extremely sincere appreciation to you for keeping up with the correcting of so many of the convoluted messages being presented all over the forums by those who adhere to Universalists teachings. I find keeping up with having to clean up after the mess they present very ehausting. So I praise God for sending you here to reveal the spirit of confusion they have repeatedly spread about here. It saddens me to see they don't see the logic you have repeatedly presented to them on various subjects in so many different threads around this web site. They say Universalism is not allowed around here but these guys continue to push their non - sense in such ways here that those new to bible studies might not yet see.

You punch holes in their ill-logic each and every time! THANK YOU for exposing the spirit of confusion that is of the Universaists teachings and that has taken hold to only confuse their senses. I pray the Lord reveal to them their illogical reasoning as you have been blessed to reveal to them, and may the Lord continue to use you as his servant in this area. It is a blessing to see the sword of truth being used through you. I praise God for your presence here!

.

 

[Bubba]

Relic,
Maybe the opposition has a reason for their theological leaning that you and Follower refuse to even consider, an example would be the Greek word "Aionios".
Bubba

"The Greek word in question here is: Aionios, an adjective usually translated "eternal," "forever" or "everlasting." Biblical Hebrew offers several combinations of the word olam (usually translated "forever, lifelong"). The Greek aionios comes from the root word: Aion, which means "age" or "era," and from which we acquire the word "eon." The adjective aionios appears 70 times in the New Testament writings (with well over 100 additional occurrences in the Septuagint), and although the word does denote that which is unending in some passages, it just as often does not. "The force attaching to the word is not so much that of the actual length of a period, but that of a period marked by spiritual or moral characteristics" (W.E. Vine, An Expository Dictionary of NT Words). The reality, which some seem reluctant to acknowledge (because it affects their theology), is that aionios is used in two very distinct and separate ways in the Scriptures --- qualitatively and quantitatively. One must examine the context, as well as that which these words describe, in order to determine which meaning applies, or if both meanings are perhaps applicable. The Holman Bible Dictionary stresses that although "some aspects of both quality and duration appear in every context," nevertheless in some passages "the emphasis is on the quality ... rather than on unending duration" (p. 440). The tendency of some to view aion and aionios as only signifying "time without end" can be exegetically misleading, for these terms may also describe the quality of something, with no reference to time whatsoever! Failure to perceive this fact has led to some misguided theology.

Simply stated, "forever" isn't always forever! In other words, about half the time aionios is used in Scripture it denotes the quality of that which is described (as being of the "eternal," rather than the "temporal," realm), rather than a reference to quantity of time. Thus, in a great many biblical examples, "forever" actually ends! A noted theologian by the name of Emmanuel Petavel correctly observes, "There are at least 70 occurrences in the Bible where these words qualify objects of a temporary and limited nature ... signifying only an indeterminate duration of which the maximum is fixed by the intrinsic nature of the persons or things themselves." In other words, the nature of "forever" is often directly determined by the nature of the object described. Thus, "eternal" or "forever" may well simply denote something will endure for as long as that object has the ability or capacity to endure. Although Plato had a huge impact upon the thinking of the Hellenistic Jews and the early Christians in this area (away from the biblical concept), nevertheless "Aristotle returns to the conception of aion as the relative period of time allotted to each specific thing" (Gerhard Kittel, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. 1, p. 198)."