And that is exactly why I said that 'god' and 'world' need to be defined.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Who is the God of this world?
- Thread starter BigSodaExposer
- Start date
That seems to pretty much agree with what I was saying, so now I wonder why you seemed to agree with someone else and question me.
Deborah13
Member
That seems to pretty much agree with what I was saying, so now I wonder why you seemed to agree with someone else and question me.
I must have heard you incorrectly, I apologize for that.
To me 'the world' are those not in Christ, and satan is their ruler.
To me it is obvious that satan is still working on this earth to destroy man but his ultimate goal (he is delusional) is to destroy the Body of Christ. he thought he could do that through the crucifixion, he can't out wit God.
Gary
Member
thankfully Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no man comes to the Father but through Him.
still, as it is written somewhere in Revelation to the beheaded ones who are crying out for His quick Judgment of those who murdered the saints,
It is written something like wait a little while longer, until the rest of your brothers who are to be beheaded(or die otherwise for their faith?) /martyred, are killed. ...
Revelation 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
still, as it is written somewhere in Revelation to the beheaded ones who are crying out for His quick Judgment of those who murdered the saints,
It is written something like wait a little while longer, until the rest of your brothers who are to be beheaded(or die otherwise for their faith?) /martyred, are killed. ...
Revelation 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
as others already (i think in the first few posts) gave the Scripture that shows that satan is the god of this world now, today, at the point we are living (and the past as far back as Jesus on earth and further),
here's a search for others who think Jesus is ruling or has been ruling on earth at any point since His resurrection....
search terms=
some say Christ Jesus is ruling earth now, today
it would be an altogether different thread really, but doesn't need to be, i think, as Scripture is simple and clear (to me) that has been posted that shows that Jesus is not now ruling over the governments and people on earth.
wonderfully, Jesus is Lord, Ruler, King, and in union with His people now, but that's entirely different with the carnal earthly nations/peoples - the ones who are opposed to Jesus and opposed to His people, and they will receive His Sure Judgment soon.
Do you agree then that Jesus is King now, that he is ruling all things now?
Deborah13
Member
God always had the ultimate control over the earth. He put kings and rulers in place and used them to bring about many things for His people, judgement, blessings, etc. That has not changed, except..
The Father has given authority to the Messiah, the man Jesus, His only begotten Son. He also gave Him authority over satan, which before the cross no man had. He took back the dominion over the earth that man had lost. Through Christ we have been given that authority over satan, in His name.
I picture the signet ring, the ring that is a seal of authority. The Father has put His signet ring on the Messiah's hand. He in return says to us, this is what I command you to do and you can do this because I have the signet ring, the authority and I am giving you the authority and power (ability, courage, strength) in my name to do these things.
Okay, it sounds like we are in agreement then.
Deborah13
Member
There are many verses that identify Satan as the god of this world. Please note that in the scripture presented in the op, god is spelled with a lower case g.The term god in this sense is who the worldly serve, and who rules in the minds through a temporal deception. This is not the True God almighty who rules through Eternal Truth. This world will pass away which means it is subject to vanity. Nothing God does is ever vanity but always Eternal. In Job, Leviathan is called king over all the children of pride. This same leviathan will be feasted upon when he is pulled out of the waters he swims in.
After Christ defeated Satan through the cross, Satan was cast out of heaven onto the earth and his place is no more in heaven, as it was before Christ came. He is now trapped in time and knows his days are numbered. He is currently deceiving vast amounts of people with his lies which are used to persecute the faithful and those who witness to the Christ. This is depicted in the book of revelations as the great dragon sending a flood out of his mouth after being cast to the earth. Hence we see the early church believers imprisoned and fed to the lions for their testimony, the deaths of all the apostles excluding Johns exile to Patmos. We see the inquisition, the holocaust, all forms war and racism. Satan rules in all those not set free by the Truth. Satan will bring forth the final government of the antichrist figure seen in Daniel whom Christ will destroy by his coming. Scripture says that his lies are so great that only the elect will see through them. Therefore scripture says that this antichrist figure deceives the whole world. Hence Satan is the god of this world.
After Christ defeated Satan through the cross, Satan was cast out of heaven onto the earth and his place is no more in heaven, as it was before Christ came. He is now trapped in time and knows his days are numbered. He is currently deceiving vast amounts of people with his lies which are used to persecute the faithful and those who witness to the Christ. This is depicted in the book of revelations as the great dragon sending a flood out of his mouth after being cast to the earth. Hence we see the early church believers imprisoned and fed to the lions for their testimony, the deaths of all the apostles excluding Johns exile to Patmos. We see the inquisition, the holocaust, all forms war and racism. Satan rules in all those not set free by the Truth. Satan will bring forth the final government of the antichrist figure seen in Daniel whom Christ will destroy by his coming. Scripture says that his lies are so great that only the elect will see through them. Therefore scripture says that this antichrist figure deceives the whole world. Hence Satan is the god of this world.
Last edited:
Andrew Mason
Member
Jesus' kingdom has defeated Satan's kingdom. You have to be a part of Jesus' kingdom to have access to His victory.
This is where biblical debate involves too much semantics. It's pretty simple to understand if you want to. If you want to make it complicated, just keep doing what you're doing.
Andrew Mason
Member
Yes and no. Is Jesus the king of Iran? Well, yes and no. God is a relational God and in our current dispensation His rule in our life and world is optional for human beings. Every knee will bow to Him because He is the King of kings, but every knee hasn't bowed to Him yet.
And of course yours is the position that is "pretty simple." You sidestepped the error I pointed out in the verse you used to support your initial assertion--that, according to Jesus, the ruler of this world was judged and being cast out. And you don't seem to want to address what Paul says in 1 Cor 15, which very strongly implies that Jesus is, in fact, reigning right now.
But you even say that "Jesus' kingdom has defeated Satan's kingdom." So what does that mean? Does it not mean that Satan is no longer ruling, no longer god of this world? Your position seems to not be very consistent. So much for being "pretty simple."
I agree that this isn't very difficult but the problem comes when certain assumptions creep in regarding what it means when Jesus is reigning as King and what one thinks that will look like.
Deborah13
Member
This is what I understand....
The kingdom of God has come but has not been fully realized on earth, when it is there will be no more evil. Even now those who are in His kingdom have power over sin and satan. Those who are not in His kingdom do not.
satan has been judged and been cast down but this has not been fully realized yet because he still has power over those who are not in God's kingdom. They have no power over sin or over satan.
That's uncanny! You sure you haven't been sneaking into our Vineyard church, and been sitting on the back row, listening? (That's almost a quote of our SoF.)
I think this is well said. It reminds me of, The kingdom of God is not here or there, but in your heart.
That is basically what I understand as well. Jesus is currently reigning as King--beginning his kingdom reign with his death and resurrection--and while his kingdom has begun on Earth, it is not fully established and won't fully be established until his return and the final judgement. However, in the meantime, his followers are to be about his kingdom business, which is how his kingdom begins to further break through on Earth.
Quite roughly, those are ideas put forward by N. T. Wright, provided I have remembered correctly.
Deborah13
Member
I have been listening to only grace preachers for about four yrs. now. If one is not preaching grace so that some will say, "Should we go on sinning the grace should abound?" then maybe their grace message is weak?
But if their message does not clearly proclaim, "God forbid!" then maybe their message is incomplete?
I have learned more about the OT from grace preachers then any of those who mix law and grace. Isn't that strange? You would think it would be the other way around.
You might enjoy this site... http://escapetoreality.org/
I truly believe this is the MEAT of the Milk & Meat. Most people will say learning and adhering to the Laws is Meat.... but that can't be, because all those Jews who they said had to move on to Meat, from Milk, ALREADY knew all the Laws, and were keeping them on a regular basis. So, they were well versed in the MILK..... Law keeping. They had to learn the true Meat of trusting in Grace. (Often much more difficult for some people to do than just keeping a set of rules.)