Who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it.

[Michael74]

Yes, but for anyone to say it's a matter of covenant law to do so would be out of line. The appointed Day and time of sacred assembly in this New Covenant is Jesus Christ, God's appointed Sabbath Rest for the people of God. We enter into that appointed Rest and are joined together in sacred assembly through faith in Christ.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Colossians 2:16 KJV

 

[JLB]

On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, Luke 13:10 NIV

As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath. Acts 13:42 NIV

That was customary, as everyone was "off work" and could gather for hearing the scriptures.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Colossians 2:16 KJV

Yes, I agree, Those were just a shadow of the good things to come, as the substance was Christ.

Observing a day of the week, or not observing a day is up to the observer, and as Jethro pointed out, not a law of the covenant.


5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
Romans 14:5-6


JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Jesus said of the Pharisee's who taught people to do the things in the law, but they themselves did not do all that the law commanded, were hypocrites, who followed the traditions of men, and made the word of God of no effect.

You have not given any scripture where Jesus or Paul obeyed the Sabbath law of Moses and commanded new covenant believers to do the same.

Why would the Lord ask us to keep one half of a scripture, but disobey the other half.

You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you...
Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

I hope you can understand my concern about this.

Please continue to study what the Apostles wrote in the New Testament and if you see a scripture where Jesus or Paul obeyed the Sabbath according to the law of Moses, then please, let's discuss it.

JLB

I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to ... the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

 

[WalterandDebbie]

He did?

Can you show me some scriptures where Jesus kept the law of Moses?



JLB

I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to ... the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

 

[WalterandDebbie]

On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, Luke 13:10 NIV

As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath. Acts 13:42 NIV

Jesus Heals a Man with an Unclean Spirit - And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching. Mark 1:21

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to ... the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

If Jesus can be a legitimate non-literal, New Covenant fulfillment of the Mosaic laws of sacrifice (and he is) then he can surely be a non-literal, New Covenant fulfillment of the Mosaic Sabbath laws (and he is).

Because he is the fulfillment of the law (not the abolishing of it) this change of law can, and has, occurred.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

If Jesus can be a legitimate non-literal, New Covenant fulfillment of the Mosaic laws of sacrifice (and he is) then he can surely be a non-literal, New Covenant fulfillment of the Mosaic Sabbath laws (and he is).

Because he is the fulfillment of the law (not the abolishing of it) this change of law can, and has, occurred.

Yes, we are to follow his steps. I Peter 2:21, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I was just trying to understand your position on the Law. It seems I remember that you also believe Christians should eat kosher. Is that correct?
If so, I was wondering how you understand what all Christians, not just you, are/are not, may/may not, follow in the Law of Moses.
I'm not saying that you believe any works are for justification. I believe, you do believe, you are justified by grace and faith.

I didn't ask you if You would have more than one wife or own slaves.
I asked if a Christian, (any Christian) could/should owe slaves or have more than one wife at a time, if it was not against the secular laws of where they reside?
You haven't answered that question. But if you would rather not, I won't ask again.

Blessings to you both.

I asked if a Christian, (any Christian) could/should owe slaves or have more than one wife at a time, if it was not against the secular laws of where they reside?

It would be up to the authority that make the laws of that area for the people.

 

[Deborah13]

I asked if a Christian, (any Christian) could/should own slaves or have more than one wife at a time, if it was not against the secular laws of where they reside?

It would be up to the authority that make the laws of that area for the people.

So if the authority, in that area, says a man may have more than one wife at a time, the Christian man, if he wants to, can have more than one wife at a time.
So you believe God approves of a man having more that one wife at a time. Why do you believe that?

 

[handy]

I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to ... the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

So, honest question here: Do you not believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets on the cross?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

So if the authority, in that area, says a man may have more than one wife at a time, the Christian man, if he wants to, can have more than one wife at a time.
So you believe God approves of a man having more that one wife at a time. Why do you believe that?

I don't go along with man or woman authority, only what The Lord have to say about every issue. If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:36
http://biblehub.com/john/8-36.htm

Remember when the woman was caught in the very act of adultery, and was brought before
the Lord, but what did Jesus tell her?

As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. John 8:1-11
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8:1-11&version=NLT

 

[WalterandDebbie]

So, honest question here: Do you not believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets on the cross?

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

Also! that Jesus did many things for the people, even to the death of the cross, do you understand ? So that my answer is yes. I do believe of the above question. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! Philippians 2:8

 

[handy]

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

Also! that Jesus did many things for the people, even to the death of the cross, do you understand ? So that my answer is yes. I do believe of the above question.

So, if the Law and the Prophets are fulfilled... do you believe that we are now bound to it?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

So, if the Law and the Prophets are fulfilled... do you believe that we are now bound to it?

No, I don't believe we are bound to the law, but we as christians are to follow the steps of Jesus I Peter 2:21 keeping his commandments John 14:15, 15:14. To do the works that he/Jesus did and greater.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

Also we as Christ like, that have his laws written in their hearts, they shall establish those laws. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Hebrews 8:10

If, we continue in his words we shall know the truth, and that truth will make you free. John 8:31, 32.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8:31-32&version=ESV

 

[handy]

No, I don't believe we are bound to the law, but we as christians are to follow the steps of Jesus I Peter 2:21 keeping his commandments John 14:15, 15:14. To do the works that he/Jesus did and greater.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

Also we as Christ like, that have his laws written in their hearts, they shall establish those laws. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Hebrews 8:10

If, we continue in his words we shall know the truth, and that truth will make you free. John 8:31, 32.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 8:31-32&version=ESV

Thanks for answering my questions. I know quite a few folks around here but many are new to me and I do like to get a foundation of where a person might be coming from. It's good to start from places of agreement and I'm in agreement with you on these two things: Christ fulfilled the Law and the Prophets and we are no longer bound to the Law.
I also agree that we are to follow the steps of Jesus.

So, how best to follow the steps of Jesus when it comes to the Sabbath? What is the fulfilled Sabbath and how does one defile it?
Also, why are we taught... as we very clearly are taught... that in the very days that Isaiah was prophesying of, some would consider one day more important and others would consider every day pretty much the same?

It comes down to how the Sabbath was affected by it's fulfillment, does it not?

The answers to these questions are best found in the Book of Hebrews. Honestly, the older I get as a Christian, the more I find that Hebrews is one of the most most important books to our understand of just what it means that Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets.

Without going into a full dissertation which would probably be better suited for a bible study rather than a chat in the Lounge, I just want to point out Hebrews 4-10 explains how the Sabbath rest, the true Sabbath rest, is Christ's finished work on the cross and how we can not defile God's Sabbath rest by following the precepts found in Hebrews 10:19-39.

So, the best way to keep the Sabbath and not defile it is to draw near to God with sincere hearts, be baptized for that is the sign of the new covenant, hold fast to our confession, (all of which can be summed up with "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind) as well as stimulating each other to love and good deeds, remaining in fellowship with each other and encouraging each other (yep, love our neighbor as ourselves!) The specific details how these precepts are played out in each Christian's life may differ, but as long as we follow the principles... I believe that we are doing well to keep the Sabbath rest undefiled.

My anyways!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thanks for answering my questions. I know quite a few folks around here but many are new to me and I do like to get a foundation of where a person might be coming from. It's good to start from places of agreement and I'm in agreement with you on these two things: Christ fulfilled the Law and the Prophets and we are no longer bound to the Law.
I also agree that we are to follow the steps of Jesus.

So, how best to follow the steps of Jesus when it comes to the Sabbath? What is the fulfilled Sabbath and how does one defile it?
Also, why are we taught... as we very clearly are taught... that in the very days that Isaiah was prophesying of, some would consider one day more important and others would consider every day pretty much the same?

It comes down to how the Sabbath was affected by it's fulfillment, does it not?

The answers to these questions are best found in the Book of Hebrews. Honestly, the older I get as a Christian, the more I find that Hebrews is one of the most most important books to our understand of just what it means that Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets.

Without going into a full dissertation which would probably be better suited for a bible study rather than a chat in the Lounge, I just want to point out Hebrews 4-10 explains how the Sabbath rest, the true Sabbath rest, is Christ's finished work on the cross and how we can not defile God's Sabbath rest by following the precepts found in Hebrews 10:19-39.

So, the best way to keep the Sabbath and not defile it is to draw near to God with sincere hearts, be baptized for that is the sign of the new covenant, hold fast to our confession, (all of which can be summed up with "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind) as well as stimulating each other to love and good deeds, remaining in fellowship with each other and encouraging each other (yep, love our neighbor as ourselves!) The specific details how these precepts are played out in each Christian's life may differ, but as long as we follow the principles... I believe that we are doing well to keep the Sabbath rest undefiled.

My anyways!

Let us beware of God's Sabbaths, which begins at by the end of the 6th. day at sunset/Friday by the Julian/Gregorian Calendar, until sunset 6th.Day/Saturday which is the beginning of the 7th. Day/Sabbath. This is how I would answer: It comes down to how the Sabbath was affected by it's fulfillment, does it not?

Yes, if one would have the wright Sabbath on that day by counting. How do you see it about the weekly cycle as a fulfillment? Luke 4:16, When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. Acts 17:2 New International Version As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

 

[JLB]

I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to ... the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Please show me a scripture where Jesus actually kept the law of Moses or the Sabbath.

Your scripture says the won't be abolished UNTIL it is fulfilled.

It does not show that Jesus kept the Saabbath or the law as an example.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Let us beware of God's Sabbaths, which begins at by the end of the 6th. day at sunset/Friday by the Julian/Gregorian Calendar, until sunset 6th.Day/Saturday which is the beginning of the 7th. Day/Sabbath. This is how I would answer: It comes down to how the Sabbath was affected by it's fulfillment, does it not?

Yes, if one would have the wright Sabbath on that day by counting. How do you see it about the weekly cycle as a fulfillment? Luke 4:16, When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. Acts 17:2 New International Version As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

If it was Jesus custom, to go to the synagogue and teach on the Sabbath, and we are to follow His example, then are you saying we need to go to a synagogue on the Sabbath, so as not to desecrate the Sabbath?

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes, we are to follow his steps. I Peter 2:21, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

It's like you didn't even read my post.

Faith doesn't abolish the law, but it does set the literal Mosaic observances aside because they are not needed now.