WHO 'killed' Jesus Christ?

[Imagican]

NOPE, not asking 'why' He died. Not asking 'why' God 'sent' Him. What the question is PLAIN and SiMPLE, 'WHO' Killed Jesus Christ? WHO sentenced Him to 'death' and WHO carried out the execution of our Lord and Savior?

 

[Vic C.]

:-D Actually, this might be interesting. 8-)

 

[jgredline]

It was me who nailed Jesus to the cross.

Jesus handed me the nails and hammer

Jesus gave his own life for me.

 

[Imagican]

It was me who nailed Jesus to the cross.

Jesus handed me the nails and hammer

Jesus gave his own life for me.

This 'sounds good' J, but I believe that your answer goes more towards answering the 'why' rather than the 'who'. For the 'truth' is, you DID NOT murder Jesus Christ. Yes, you ARE a sinner. But that is the REASON Christ died, not WHO killed Him. If your answer had any validity, then it would be invalidated by Adam's FIRST sin rather than ours.

No J, you were NOT there to spit upon our Saviior, beat him mercilessly and then take a hammer and nails and 'literally' NAIL Him to a cross.

So, back to the question: WHO DID murder Jesus Christ?

Oh, and one of the 'most' evil men of our generation, Mick Jagger, made the EXACT comment as yours in a song that he wrote and sang called, 'Sympathy for the Devil'. "After all, it was you and me". But I am well aware that I did NOT nail Christ to the cross. He died FOR me, but there were certainly those that were 'actually' responsible FOR the ACT itself. Just like JUDAS betrayed Christ, SOMEONE also murdered Him, WHO is the question.

 

[jgredline]

It was me who nailed Jesus to the cross.

Jesus handed me the nails and hammer

Jesus gave his own life for me.

This 'sounds good' J, but I believe that your answer goes more towards answering the 'why' rather than the 'who'. For the 'truth' is, you DID NOT murder Jesus Christ. Yes, you ARE a sinner. But that is the REASON Christ died, not WHO killed Him. If your answer had any validity, then it would be invalidated by Adam's FIRST sin rather than ours.

No J, you were NOT there to spit upon our Saviior, beat him mercilessly and then take a hammer and nails and 'literally' NAIL Him to a cross.

So, back to the question: WHO DID murder Jesus Christ?

Oh, and one of the 'most' evil men of our generation, Mick Jagger, made the EXACT comment as yours in a song that he wrote and sang called, 'Sympathy for the Devil'. "After all, it was you and me". But I am well aware that I did NOT nail Christ to the cross. He died FOR me, but there were certainly those that were 'actually' responsible FOR the ACT itself. Just like JUDAS betrayed Christ, SOMEONE also murdered Him, WHO is the question.

Imajic
While you are looking at the physical I am looking at the spritual. I could give you 20 differant answers and chances are you would disagree or pick them apart. I read and studied a book by John MacAurther called The murder of Jesus. I read the book 3 times and studied the bible relentlessly on the crucifixion of my Jesus and what the cross means in great detail. I was preparing for a class on this I was to teach. If I am not mistaken, you don't even believe Jesus is God so it would not have the same impact on you as it would say me, Vic, or Solo or many others that have been born again.

The fact is nobody Killed Jesus. He gave his own life. Nobody took it and noboday could take it. You can blame the jews for yelling crucify him, or the romans for condeming this innocent lamb to death, but the fact is If I were the only man on this planet Jesus would still have went to the cross for me.

Something perhaps you will not be able to understand.

JG

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Hi guys,

Jesus was a case of a conspiracy in the same manner a person hires a hit man to kill someone he doesn't do so himself. Which is what happened in the murder of Jesus, by the Romans.

The Romans had shut down the Sanhedrin of Israel, and prevented them from the process of any adjudication or in effecting any death penalties of their own. So they had to go to the Roman governor to effect their demands, or Jesus would have been stoned to death by the Jews themselves, which was their way of putting a person to death, according to their law.

From Jn.19:4-7, Israel gave Pilate no choice but to crucify Jesus for them, as in Jn.19:16-17, and gave up His Spirit in vs 30. In vs 34, the Roman soldier pierced Jesus side with a spear.


What did Jesus say about this? In Mt.20:18-19, where He said, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn Him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day He will be raised to life."

In the prophecy of Zechariah in 12:10, Jesus will say, "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a Spirit of grace and supplication. THEY WILL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for a firstborn son."


Therefore, as seen from the Scriptures qbove, Jesus clearly blames Israel [The Jews] for His being murdered.


Blessings,

Quasar

 

[Georges]

The Sadducean High Priest hood's power was threatened by Jesus. They covertly had him tried and sent to Pilate....

The very same thing happened to Stephen...Stephen belonged to a radical group of the Nazarene (Pharisee) Jews...a threat to the HP group as well.

Paul (Saul) an agent of the HP's police group was responsible for rounding up the Nazarene sect...in the case of Jesus and Stephen, they were murdered sucessfully. In the case of James, he escaped Paul with only minor injury...

bottom line....the Sadducean High Priest group.

 

[lovely]

Isaiah 53
1 John 3:16
John 3:16

God planned for the Word to become flesh and die. Certainly the Jews were pressing for this. John 5:18 and Matthew 27:25 It was at the hands of the Romans. Matthew 27:27 and Matthew 27:35 Both Jew and Gentile did the killing, but we are all sinners and guilty as some have said already. But, essentially it was through the loving will of the Father, and the willing sacrifice of the Son, and for the sins of whosoever will believe that Christ died...God allowed it, for His glory, and our redemption, and through the vehicle of the sin that was in the world at that time in history, and through those who rejected the Spirit's witness of Christ because of their own self-righteousness.

the Lord bless you.

 

[Oscar3]

Lovely
As always your correct.
Jesus knew he was going to the cross from before he created this earth out of love and his own free will.

May the Lord bless you.

 

[Imagican]

I want to thank everyone for their participation regarding this subject. I agree with most of what has been offered. But, regardless of God's will, there WERE 'people' responsible for Christ's death. Yes, He died for ALL men and their sins. Yes, it WAS God's will that The Son be crucified. But, as we ALL KNOW, Judas was CERTAINLY held accountable for his betrayal of Christ. So too were those that Killed an innocent man. Regardless of fate, Woe to those that shed innocent blood.

It's really NO different than God allowing His enemies of the past to convict themselves and bring about their OWN demise. The Egyptians, Canaanites, etc........... Each, in their turn, brought about their OWN demise by their treatment of others and ignoring their Creator.

Yes, the religious order of the time WERE threatened by Christ. And YES, they were the ones instigating the public outcry for the 'death' of Christ. BUT, the Jews were UNDER ROMAN Jurisdiction. This is UNDENIABLE. So ULTIMATELY, EVERYTHING that they did HAD to be OK'd by the Roman representative in Israel. The Jews did NOT nail Christ to the cross. The Jews were NOT the ones that beat Him mercilessly. The Jews were NOT the ones that 'cast lots' for His clothing. And it was NOT a Jew that pierced His side with a spear. And, it WAS the Romans that had to be begged for His body after He died. And it WAS a ROMAN guard that was ordered to guard His tomb.

Political correctness doesn't change ONE iota of the 'truth'. And, AFTER Christ's death, it WAS the Romans that FED Christians to lions and had them HACKED to death by Gladiators every time something went wrong in their kingdom. And it WAS the Romans that massacred the Jews less than a century after Christ's death. Not to mention how many they must have murdered upon their occupation of Israel.

What I am curious of is WHY this is 'such a touchy' subject. If it's the 'truth', why would so many go to such lenngths to 'avoid' the OBVIOUS answer? Is it fear of how it may affect the CC? Everybody is QUICK to blame the Jews. But the 'truth' IS that it WAS the Romans that murdered Christ. The Jewish people ASKED for it. But it WAS the ROMANS that carried out their wishes.

You know, it's kind of funny. Over the history of the RCC, the Jews were BLAMED by them too and this was used to persecute them by the CC. Funny, kind of. That those that were ACTUALLY responsible for Christs' murder would shirk their responsibility for His death and persecute others for 'their' part in it. Kind of hypocritical isn't it?

And j, I have tried to warn you guys about 'thinking' that you are able to judge the 'hearts' of others. I warn you once again. Beware of your judgement of 'others' Salvation for 'how' you judge is HOW you have been told you WILL be judged.

I am WELL aware of 'who' Jesus Christ IS. I have His words and The Word of God to SHOW me. And trust me, my friend, I didn't need YOU or ANYONE else to introduce me to Christ OR His Father, MY GOD. And, what's even MORE bazaar to YOU probably, I don't NEED to follow 'man-made' tradition for my relationship with the Father THROUGH His Son to flourish. Simple obedience to HIS WILL and begging for His mercy and guidance, thanking Him continually. That is how I have come to KNOW the LOVE Of my Creator. I don't need to 'bully up' on people that disagree with me. I don't need to call them names or threaten their Salvation. I am VERY well satisfied with what has been offered. My ONLY regret is that I AM NOT WORTHY to have received the LOVE that I have been offered. I do the best that I can to return it though.

And j, you would do well to understand as I understand. You are right. Because of 'your' beliefs, there are MANY things that I will NEVER understand about 'your' religion. I have 'watched' those that believe that they must 'bow' to men and their means in order to 'fit in' to the 'church game'. I have NO NEED for this either. And I bet that just hearing those words just 'eats you up' inside. Makes you wish that there were 'some insult', some 'punishment', some WAY that you could silence a one such as myself for saying such a thing. For I understand what it's like to 'be a slave' and witness 'someone else' that is FREE. It is enough to make one 'envious'. Envious to the point of violence or betrayal even. Fortunately for me I live in a time that those that 'try' and FORCE me to follow 'their way' is LONG past. Hopefully I'll be able to 'leave this world' before it changes BACK into that. But until then, I am here to warn ANY that will listen, to FLEE the religions of men and learn to follow God instead. Become a 'part of the TRUE CHURCH' instead of simply attending 'a church'. Flee the idolatrous traditions of the churches and learn to LOVE for the sake of LOVE itself. THAT, my friends is EXACTLY what Christ came and died for. Not JUST for our sins, but He came, lived and died as THE EXAMPLE of what God would have of US TOO. A witness of the TRUTH and a GIVER OF HIMSELF. That was WHAT Christ WAS and STILL IS. ARE you?

 

[thessalonian]

Imagican,

As always you poll contains false dichotomies. If one were to answer any one of the individual answers in your poll they would only be partially correct. Most certainly in an immediate way, all in the crowd, of which I think it highly likely had you been born in their situation, you would have been with them, yelling "CRUCIFY HIM", were guilty of killing him. For they could have said "release Jesus". Instead they let the criminal go. Christ took the place of Barabus as he did everyone who yelled "Cruify" him, as he did you and I. Most surely the Jews who brought him forward to the Romans killed him and the Roman solidiers did as well. But I would submit that in some sense those who had governmental authority were actually less culpable according to Romans 13. At any rate all of us were in some sense responsible for the crusifixion of Christ by our sins. Without sin there was no need for his suffering. It would not have happened. If you cannot see that your sins were nailed to that cross that day in the flesh that was so pure and holy that it could rightfully atone for them then I feel sorry for you. For you do not know him and his deep love for you, that those words "forgive them for they know not what they do" applies to you as well. YOU HELPED PUT HIM THERE IMAGICAN. YOU AND ME!

Blessings

 

[jgredline]

Imagican,

As always you poll contains false dichotomies. If one were to answer any one of the individual answers in your poll they would only be partially correct. Most certainly in an immediate way, all in the crowd, of which I think it highly likely had you been born in their situation, you would have been with them, yelling "CRUCIFY HIM", were guilty of killing him. For they could have said "release Jesus". Instead they let the criminal go. Christ took the place of Barabus as he did everyone who yelled "Cruify" him, as he did you and I. Most surely the Jews who brought him forward to the Romans killed him and the Roman solidiers did as well. But I would submit that in some sense those who had governmental authority were actually less culpable according to Romans 13. At any rate all of us were in some sense responsible for the crusifixion of Christ by our sins. Without sin there was no need for his suffering. It would not have happened. If you cannot see that your sins were nailed to that cross that day in the flesh that was so pure and holy that it could rightfully atone for them then I feel sorry for you. For you do not know him and his deep love for you, that those words "forgive them for they know not what they do" applies to you as well. YOU HELPED PUT HIM THERE IMAGICAN. YOU AND ME!

Blessings

Thess
Thank you. I could not agree with you more.
jg

 

[Imagican]

Imagican,

As always you poll contains false dichotomies. If one were to answer any one of the individual answers in your poll they would only be partially correct. Most certainly in an immediate way, all in the crowd, of which I think it highly likely had you been born in their situation, you would have been with them, yelling "CRUCIFY HIM", were guilty of killing him. For they could have said "release Jesus". Instead they let the criminal go. Christ took the place of Barabus as he did everyone who yelled "Cruify" him, as he did you and I. Most surely the Jews who brought him forward to the Romans killed him and the Roman solidiers did as well. But I would submit that in some sense those who had governmental authority were actually less culpable according to Romans 13. At any rate all of us were in some sense responsible for the crusifixion of Christ by our sins. Without sin there was no need for his suffering. It would not have happened. If you cannot see that your sins were nailed to that cross that day in the flesh that was so pure and holy that it could rightfully atone for them then I feel sorry for you. For you do not know him and his deep love for you, that those words "forgive them for they know not what they do" applies to you as well. YOU HELPED PUT HIM THERE IMAGICAN. YOU AND ME!

Blessings

I believe that you and others have heard this 'sermon' so MANY times that you have come to 'believe' it.

Christ came to 'die' for sin NO DOUBT. I have already acknowledged this on a number of occasions in this thread alone. I also explained that 'this' WASN'T the question. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS.

What the question WAS and IS, is; WHO, my friends. Who actually KILLED Jesus Christ?

I can see by the answers given so far that those that have offered them are more concerned with being 'Politically correct', than 'facing the truth'. Not surprising. And so far, those that have answered in 'such a manor' ARE responsible for Christ's death as offered. For 'these' ARE the ones that would have 'chosen' to 'follow the crowd' yelling 'crucify Him', for the 'sake' of being 'politically correct'.

Now, let me ask you 'bright people' this; Let's say that Peter had been identified by the people as; one of Christ's followers. Someone had identified him in front of a Roman soldier and Peter had been arrested and crucified along side Christ. NOW, let's get down to the 'truth'. WHO would you THEN say had been responsible for PETER'S death?

Or, let's make it EVEN simpler; Who killed the TWO men that hung beside Christ?

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

Or, let's make it EVEN simpler; Who killed the TWO men that hung beside Christ?

We know little about their crimes or who sentenced them. Any answer would be hypothetical. 8-)

That answer that comes close is, it was the Romans who carried out the executions. Alright, I will concede and say, they were accomplices. :-D

 

[JM]

Wicked hands. Since no one is free from having wicked hands, we all did.

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain Acts 2

 

[Vic C.]

Wicked hands. Since no one is free from having wicked hands, we all did.

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain Acts 2

Thank you! This was what I said in another thread, whidc prompted Imagican to start this thread.

"We all did" is the reason why He had to die and the answer to "who killed Him?".

 

[Imagican]

Wicked hands. Since no one is free from having wicked hands, we all did.

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain Acts 2

Actually, I like this offering. For it shows CLEARLY Who killed Jesus Christ. NO, not just God's will. NO, not just the Romans, NO, not just the Jews. It shows that He was 'accused' by the Jews, Sent by the Father, and 'slain by the 'wicked' hands of the Romans. Or, am I confused again?

I notice that you made NO attempt to offer an answer to the 'rest' of the question.

Vic,

We DO know that the Romans Used crucifiction as 'their' form of capital punishment and HISTORY PROVES THIS. So, regardless of 'who' brought 'charges' against them, or WHO 'desired' their 'deaths', SOMEONE KILLED THEM. I believe that quite often there NEEDS be NO statement of FACT to determine the FACTS, the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE is PROOF enough as to the 'truth'. Not attacking you, my brother, just trying to wade through the semantics and 'poetry' to get to the 'truth'.

I understand that many are reluctant to 'admit' the truth for that places MY position in this debate where I 'thought' I was in the beginning. Many are reluctant for the 'sake of' their Catholic brothers and sisters. I AM NOT blaming the CC for ANYTHING Of the sort. We are talking about a Godless people, (at the time), and their role in the crucifiction of Jesus Christ. But I am well aware that those that follow my comments are aware that to 'admit' that what I offer IS 'true' offers MUCH prudence in the backing of statements that I have made on 'other' issues concerning these people.

It's of little consequence to me. All I ask is that one 'search their hearts' before making statements that may or may not hold them liable for such in the future. For ours is NOT to condemn for we ARE all sinners. But to understand is paramont to developing AN UNDERSTANDING. And the 'truth' IS paramont to the developement of a relationship with the Father through His Son. For, where there is LITTLE TRUTH, there can be LITTLE Spirit. And it is the same as saying; 'where there is MUCH darkness, there is little, if ANY, light.

Once again, I am NOT accusing ANYONE OF ANYTHING. Just making a general statement that may or may NOT pertain to such issues. Let your heart be your guide. Better yet, let The Spirit be your guide.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

The two men who were sentenced to death and killed on the cross were killed by the Romans. Think about this for a minute.
There were three crosses set up for this. All three crosses were set up for the three criminals. Jewish History tells of the atrocoties that Barabass and his posey commited although they are refered to as Robbers. However, the crime of robbery was not enough to condem someone to death. initially all three were sentenced to death. When Jesus took the place of Barrabas in the center of the three crosses ( symboilic of the triune God head) he gave himself to it (John 3:16) Now if you read (ISA 53:10) It pleased the Lord to bruise Him
So to answer your question. The two robbers were killed by the Romans and Jesus gave himself for those who would beleive in him. Son of the Living God.
J

 

[Vic C.]

It's of little consequence to me. All I ask is that one 'search their hearts' before making statements that may or may not hold them liable for such in the future. For ours is NOT to condemn for we ARE all sinners

Wait a minute! LOL I was the first one to bring up the fact that we are all responsible. If I am condemning anyone, I am including myself. 8-) You are excusing yourself from responsibility by passing the blame off to the "tool" that God used to carry out the crucifixion. If I shoot someone, who get s the blame, the gun...or me?

I know... lets blame Satan! :-D

 

[Imagican]

Vic,

I have shirked NO responsibility WHATSOEVER. All I have attempted to do is determine the answer to the question that I posed. I have IN NO WAY attempted to 'talk around' the issue. I have OPENLY admitted that Christ died for ME. And the REASON that He died for ME is that I AM A SINNER. To KEEP me from suffering the consequences 'laid out' for a 'sinner', God SENT His Son to DIE FOR ME. But Vic, regardless of 'cute plays', 'warm and fuzzy sermons', I DID NOT KILL JESUS CHRIST. He died WILLINGLY AND OPENLY FOR ME. For IF I KILLED HIM, what HE offered was NOT A GIFT, but something that I TOOK FROM HIM. I can NOT take from Christ ONLY ACCEPT. I could NO more TAKE HIS LIFE than I could OFFER IT.

The Romans were NOT the 'gun' that you so elloquently offer. Anymore than the Egyptians WERE the 'gun' used to 'introduce God to the World'. Yes, this was 'a part' of the reason for what befell the Egyptians, but these has 'followed their OWN hearts and understanding' to find themselves in the position that they ended up. And God PUNISHED them accordingly. Punished them for THEIR responsibility concerning their treatment of HIS PEOPLE. PERIOD.

Revelation for those that haven't SEEN this before: Ever wonder WHY the history of Egypt has, UNTIL recently, been ALL BUT erased? Why it took archeologist from almost every other country on the planet to 'piece together' the history of the 'greatest' civilization that this planet has ever known, (second ONLY to Babylon perhaps)? There IS an answer and it IS contained within the Word. Would anyone care to answer this question before I do? I find that MANY are COMPLETELY unaware of this answer and this is WHY I ask. I'll give it a while and return with the answer if no one else is capable of offering it.

MEC