Who nailed Him ?

[wayseer]

Neither the Romans or the Jews crucified our Lord. The Romans, of course, did the physical deed, and the Jews were all there, but the sons of Cain crucified Christ, those who said they were Jews, but were not, and did lie.

And what evidence do you have to support this idea?

Could we please deal in fact.

 

[Davies]

I don't believe what other people tell me is God's word.

The reason I am here on this forum is hopefully to try and focus on the issues raised and not fantasy.

If you are really interested in what the Bible has to say at least but a new one and not rely on something that is essentially over 400 years old.

Hi wayseer,

As a born again Christian, that is one who has repented and put their faith in Jesus Christ, a person should understand how to look at the world. We don't look at the world and interpret the Bible, rather, we take the Bible and interpret the world.

Who nailed Jesus to the cross?

Isaiah 53:10-11

New King James Version (NKJV)

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul,[a] and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.

It was the Father who nailed Jesus to the cross. It was Jesus' Soul who was offered as a sin offering, and because Jesus was obedient to the will of the Father, it would be right to say that by Jesus' righteousness, He justified many because He took their sins upon Himself. That would include us today, and saving those who had faith in the Messiah to come in the past before the cross.

Without the forgiveness of Jesus, a person will pay for his own sins.

John 14:6

New King James Version (NKJV)

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

I'd suggest taking a more serious look at what the Bible says.


- Davies

 

[ezra]

our sins nailed him to the cross his Love kept him on cross read Isiah 53

 

[Hammer]

Neither the Romans or the Jews crucified our Lord. The Romans, of course, did the physical deed, and the Jews were all there, but the sons of Cain crucified Christ, those who said they were Jews, but were not, and did lie.

It was the sons of Judah who killed Jesus. Those who say they're Jews, but they're not, are those people who claim to be Jews but are not Christians. Christians are the true Jews, the children of Abraham. Those who call themselves Jews but reject Jesus are of the Synagogue of Satan. They killed Jesus, using the Romans.

 

[wayseer]

Hi wayseer,

Hi

As a born again Christian

Could you explain to me the difference between a born again Christian and a Christian?

that is one who has repented and put their faith in Jesus Christ

I'm left wondering if this 'faith' of which you speak might have anything to do with the Creeds?

a person should understand how to look at the world. We don't look at the world and interpret the Bible, rather, we take the Bible and interpret the world.

I simply cannot follow you logic here. The Bible is the revelation of God to humanity - not about Psychology 101.

Who nailed Jesus to the cross?

My Bible says Pilate. What's your's say?

 

[Hammer]

My Bible says Pilate. What's your's say?

No, your Bible doesn't say that. The Bible blames Jews repeatedly for killing Jesus. Peter specifically says Israelites nailed Jesus to the cross (a verse quoted a few times in this thread). To say Pilate did it is to shift the guilt, and so is dishonest. Pilate tried to save Jesus.

 

[Eventide]

Ye did it for evil... but God did it for good...

I must agree because this is what we read in the scriptures from the Apostle to the circumcision;

He is speaking to Israelites in Acts 3.. and he explains this plainly..

That Pilate was willing to let Him go.. and that they asked for a thief and a murderer to be RELEASED to them, instead..

Talk about conviction, are you kidding me ?

THEN he says that ye did it in ignorance.. and that you can still be saved..

Amazing grace to say the least...

Although if we continue through the book of Acts we see that it was Israel's leaders who continued in their rejection of Christ and ultimately they were what...?

CUT OFF.. the Lord told them that their house would be left desolate... UNTIL a time..

This is what Paul speaks of with respect to the mystery pertaining to Israel.. and how that Christians ignoring it would result in becoming wise in our own conceits..

Not good..

Israel will remain judicially blinded until the fulness of the GENTILES come in.. and that should not be much further on up the road..

As it is written (like a double edged sword).. the DELIVERER shall COME from Sion and shall turn ungodliness from JACOB...

Remember him.. Jacob.. the guy with twelve sons.. who wrestled with God all night... the one who was deceived into believing that the son of his old age (Joseph), was dead.. because of his coat dipped in blood..?

Remember him ?

He found out in the end that his son was not only alive.. but ruler over all..

Amazing things in those ancient stories..

 

[Hammer]

Re: Ye did it for evil... but God did it for good...

That Pilate was willing to let Him go.. and that they asked for a thief and a murderer to be RELEASED to them, instead..

Pilate wasn't just willing to let Jesus go. He wanted to release Jesus.

Israel will remain judicially blinded until the fulness of the GENTILES come in.. and that should not be much further on up the road..

The fullness of the gentiles came in by 70AD. The only Israel today is the church, imposters aside.

 

[Davies]

Re: Ye did it for evil... but God did it for good...

The fullness of the gentiles came in by 70AD. The only Israel today is the church, imposters aside.

Hi Hammer,

You're the lone ranger on that point. Everyone here who has read the Bible with any integrity, will disagree with you. The more you say it, the more I think you're trying to convince yourself. Did you learn this in a particular denomination or did you come to this understanding on your own?

- Davies

 

[Hammer]

Re: Ye did it for evil... but God did it for good...

You're the lone ranger on that point. Everyone here who has read the Bible with any integrity, will disagree with you. The more you say it, the more I think you're trying to convince yourself. Did you learn this in a particular denomination or did you come to this understanding on your own?

I'm already convinced. There's no integrity or intelligence is insisting followers of the Talmud are somehow descendants of Judah. Jews themselves don't claim to be natural descendants of Judah. The tribe of Judah was lost with the fall of Judea around 70AD, just as the first ten tribes were lost with the fall of the kingdom of Israel. Israelites can no longer be blinded when they no longer exist. Israelites dissolved into the gentile world.

Professed Christians of Zionist persuasion know that a gentile can convert and become a Jew, yet when they meet a Jew they still believe they're meeting descendant of Judah. If that's not blindness, it's willful ignorance. I have no use for a theology based on blindness or ignorance.

Why did God wait 40 years to destroy the Temple? He was waiting for the fullness of the gentiles to come in. This was a time of transition from the Temple Age, under the Israelites, to the Church Age, under the gentiles. Do you get it now?

What nincompoopery it is to think that God would keep Jews blind for 2000 years? For what purpose, when the original purpose was to bring salvation to the gentiles? That was accomplished in the First Century.

 

[Stormcrow]

You don't like my answers.

Because they didn't address my questions. I asked three pointed, direct questions all of which you evaded with a single non-sequitor. That's usually indicative of someone who cannot defend their position.

 

[Stormcrow]

Pilate wasn't just willing to let Jesus go. He wanted to release Jesus.

Chapter II

How Tiberius was affected, when informed by Pilate respecting Christ.

​

The fame of our Lord's remarkable resurrection and ascension being now spread abroad, according to an ancient custom prevalent among the rulers of the nations, to communicate novel occurrences to the emperor, that nothing might escape him, Pontius Pilate transmits to Tiberius an account of the circumstances concerning the resurrection of our Lord from the dead, the report of which had already been spread throughout all Palestine. In this account, he also intimated that he ascertained other miracles respecting him, and that having now risen from the dead, he was believed to be a God by the great mass of the people. Tiberius referred the matter to the senate, but it is said they rejected the proposition, in appearance, because they had not examined into this subject first, according to an ancient law among the Romans, that no one should be ranked among the gods unless by a vote and decree of the senate; in reality, however, because the salutary doctrine of the gospel needs no confirmation and co-operation of men.

The senate of the Romans, therefore, having thus rejected the doctrine of our Saviour as it was announced, and Tiberius still continuing to hold the opinion he had before cherished, formed no unreasonable projects against the doctrine of Christ. This is the testimony of Tertullian, a man who made himself accurately acquainted with the laws of the Romans, and, besides his eminence in other respects, was particularly distinguished among the eminent men of Rome, and in his Apology for the Christians in the Roman tongue, which is also translated into the Greek, to give his own words, writes after the following manner. "In order to give also an account of these laws from their origin, it was an ancient decree, that no one should be consecrated a god by the emperor, before it had been approved by the senate. Marcus Aurelius has done this, in reference to a certain idol, Alburnus, so that this evidence has been given in favour of our doctrine, that divine dignity is conferred among you by the decrees of men. Unless a god pleases men he is not made a god; and thus, according to this procedure, it is necessary that man should be propitious to the god. Tiberius, therefore, under whom the name of Christ was spread throughout the world, when this doctrine was announced to him from Palestine, where it first began, communicated with the senate, being obviously pleased with the doctrine; but the senate, as they had not proposed the measure, rejected it. But he continued in his opinion, threatening death to the accusers of the Christians; a divine providence infusing this into his mind, that the gospel having freer scope in its commencement, might spread every where over the world."

Eusebius Pamphilus, The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, WORDsearch CROSS e-book, 51.

Pilate not only wanted to release Christ, but gave such a report of the events that unfolded under his watch to Tiberius, that Tiberius Caesar himself made it possible for the gospel to be spread throughout the entire known world at that time!

 

[Eventide]

Re: Ye did it for evil... but God did it for good...

The fullness of the gentiles came in by 70AD. The only Israel today is the church, imposters aside.

Don't you preterists have a forum to spread your cancer in... Why don't you take your nonsense there where it belongs..

I'm even amazed that you're allowed in a Christian forum.

 

[wayseer]

No, your Bible doesn't say that. The Bible blames Jews repeatedly for killing Jesus. Peter specifically says Israelites nailed Jesus to the cross (a verse quoted a few times in this thread). To say Pilate did it is to shift the guilt, and so is dishonest. Pilate tried to save Jesus.

Please supply your reasoning. Certainly there is much anti-semitism contained in the words of the Gospel writers as early Christianity broke away from its Jewish roots but to then turn this ideology into historic fact is a step too far.

Pilate had no love for the Jews and even less for a Jewish trouble maker. And don't believe the bit about Rome setting a prisoner free - that is fantasy. The only way out for a rebel was through death.

 

[Eventide]

..what shall we have therefore ?

Perhaps one of the most fascinating things that I've read in the gospels is this; read the entire chapter of Matthew 19 to get its full context..

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

The Lord says as plain as day that in the regeneration, when He sits upon the throne of His glory, that his Apostles will also sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..

So all we need to know now is WHEN that will be...

And of course the gospel of Matthew tells us precisely WHEN that will be... when He sits upon the throne of His glory..

Matthew 25 says this..

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

How is this related...

..because it's the gospel of God's Son..?

In the end the very nation which crucified their King.. shall be delivered.. it's a biblical certainty.. because it's all connected to our Lord Jesus Christ.. coming in His infinite power and glory.. in that DAY.. the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ..

 

[Eventide]

Thy Kingdom come...

And this has nothing to do with the church of God.. for the Spirit had not yet been given.. because Christ had not yet been glorified.

The church of God did not exist when the Lord explained these things to Peter...

These are earthly things..

And did you know that Luke 22 makes a perfect connection to these things.. for it also speaks of the Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of ISRAEL..

And that is absolutely and undeniably connected to..

HIS KINGDOM...

For that Day is coming.. when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.. and our Lord Jesus Christ shall then sit upon the throne of His glory.. right there in Jerusalem.. the city of the GREAT KING.

Can you see that Day approaching..?

 

[Eventide]

scoffers ? ...

The Apostle to the circumcision says that there's something we should know first.. as in going into this kind of speak.. and that is that there will be scoffers who say.. where's the promise of His coming..?.. and that since the FATHERS FELL ASLEEP (gee, when was that, 1st century?), all things continue as they were..

Interesting isn't it.. ?

Seen any scoffers lately ?

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[rrowell]

Please supply your reasoning. Certainly there is much anti-semitism contained in the words of the Gospel writers as early Christianity broke away from its Jewish roots but to then turn this ideology into historic fact is a step too far.

Pilate had no love for the Jews and even less for a Jewish trouble maker. And don't believe the bit about Rome setting a prisoner free - that is fantasy. The only way out for a rebel was through death.

I believe the Bible to be truth, therefore the burden of proof lay upon you, you claim no such custom existed yet can show no proof other than modern theory that the custom did not exist.

The only way you can make this claim is to deny providential preservation of the word of God and do not belong on a Christian Forum.

 

[Hitch]

Re: Thy Kingdom come...

And this has nothing to do with the church of God.. for the Spirit had not yet been given.. because Christ had not yet been glorified.

The church of God did not exist when the Lord explained these things to Peter...

These are earthly things..

And did you know that Luke 22 makes a perfect connection to these things.. for it also speaks of the Apostles sitting upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of ISRAEL..

And that is absolutely and undeniably connected to..

HIS KINGDOM...

For that Day is coming.. when the kingdoms of this world shall become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ.. and our Lord Jesus Christ shall then sit upon the throne of His glory.. right there in Jerusalem.. the city of the GREAT KING.

Can you see that Day approaching..?

The devil shares your wish to deny Christ's royal status.

 

[Kaliani]

Re: Thy Kingdom come...

The devil shares your wish to deny Christ's royal status.

The devil officially approves of this thread. Who wants to argue that point with me?