Who put our sins upon Jesus on the cross?

[RBDERRICK]

As the saying goes, we have found the enemy, and they be us, not God.

Here is the Scripture that our sins were upon Jesus:

1 Pe 2:22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Our sins were upon His body, not His soul. Having sin upon the soul is only by the soul sinning. Having sin upon the body is by damage done to the body sinfully. The scars of sin upon the body can be seen by the sinful abuse of oneself by lust, or of others by asault.

Here is Scripture of God commanding righteous abuse of the body by law:

Deu 19:12Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.

The guilty under the law bear the marks of righteous execution of sentence. The abuse of the body by others executing the law is justified by the Lawmaker. The guilty are esteemed smitten by God. Their righteousness by the law are righteous acts upon the body of the guilty.

However, if the guiltless are executed unjustly by law, then the innocent bear the marks of unjust judgment, sentencing, and execution.

Deu 19:9If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways...That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

When execution of the law is unjust, whether wilfully or ignorantly, then the excecutioners are made guilty of shedding the innocent blood: their unrighteousness contrary to the law are sins made upon the body of the guiltless.

Here is Scripture on how man's sins were on His body:

Isaiah{50:5} The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. {50:6} I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

He took man's sinful acts upon His body, by willing and meek submission to being crucified unjustly.

Here is Scripture showing who put our sins upon Jesus on the cross:

Rom 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

By the law against shedding the innocent blood, sinful man is guilty of abusing Jesus' body. The sins upon His body ar ethe marks of inflicting their own unrighteousness upon Him. God did not asasult nor crucify His own innocent Son's body on a tree, nor was it justified by His law.

God was not the smiter by law, as all them at the cross believed:

Isa 53:3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

And, when the Lord of all the earth is sinfully slain, then His innocent blood is upon all the land of the earth.

In the crucifixion of Jesus Christ the Son of God, we see our sins working against Him on His own body. Our sins laid upon Him, are the marks of our sinful acts born upon His body. When we see Jesus Christ crucified on a cross, we see our own sins at work upon His own body.

Not only the wicked hands doing so, are guilty of His innocent blood, but all hands that sin are judged guilty of the same, and made worthy of execution by the law:

Deu 19:9If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways...That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

All the world was condemned before the Son of man came in the flesh, and is exceeding condemned at the cross. He came not to condemn a condemned world, but the world by recieving Him not, greatly condemned itself by unjustly crucifying Him and shedding His innocent blood unto death.

We that have sinned are the ones that grievously made our sins on His body, and marked Him as smitten of God. It was not the righteous Lord and Judge of all the earth that imputed any sin to the guiltless, nor put any sinful mark upon His own Son's body:

Gen 18:25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[RBDERRICK]

What man did for the evil to the Son, God works to the good by the gospel of the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

As righteous Abel's blood cried guilty to God against his murderer, so Jesus' innocent shed blood cries guilty to God against all sinners. But the gospel of His resurrection speaks of better things than unredeemable guilt as that of Cain:

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Whereas Abel was did not rise again from the earth, so that Cain had none to repent, Jesus Christ now risen from the dead speaks of mercy and forgiveness for them that repent.

Whereas the cross speaks of guilt by the death of the Son on earth, the gospel promises reconciliation from heaven by His resurrection.

Rom 5:10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
At His death none are reconciled to God, but by His death through His resurrection, the enemies that repent are reconciled to God.

1 Cor 15:2For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

All the world of sinners are alienated from Jesus at the cross. But His death was made also to be for us; for by His death, He could rise again in all victory to offer mercy to His enemies that repent.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

He died for us to repent with godly sorrow, that by His resurrection He can justify us through mercy.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Heb 9:22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Through His innocent blood shed on the cross, He is able by law to forgive all His enemies, solely by repentance with godly sorrow, and wash them clean by His blood and Spirit. None of His enemies need die for shedding the innocent blood, because the innocent One is risen with power to forgive His own slayers.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

At the cross, all the world is made sorry, with no hope of being reconciled to the crucified Son. But by His resurrection all the world might be saved, not only for the Jew that slew Him, but also for the Gentile that sinned against Him.

Jhn 3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Gal 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

As the saying goes, we have found the enemy, and they be us, not God.

Here is the Scripture that our sins were upon Jesus:

1 Pe 2:22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Our sins were upon His body, not His soul. Having sin upon the soul is only by the soul sinning. Having sin upon the body is by damage done to the body sinfully. The scars of sin upon the body can be seen by the sinful abuse of oneself by lust, or of others by asault.

Here is Scripture of God commanding righteous abuse of the body by law:

Deu 19:12Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.

The guilty under the law bear the marks of righteous execution of sentence. The abuse of the body by others executing the law is justified by the Lawmaker. The guilty are esteemed smitten by God. Their righteousness by the law are righteous acts upon the body of the guilty.

However, if the guiltless are executed unjustly by law, then the innocent bear the marks of unjust judgment, sentencing, and execution.

Deu 19:9If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways...That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

When execution of the law is unjust, whether wilfully or ignorantly, then the excecutioners are made guilty of shedding the innocent blood: their unrighteousness contrary to the law are sins made upon the body of the guiltless.

Here is Scripture on how man's sins were on His body:

Isaiah{50:5} The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. {50:6} I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

He took man's sinful acts upon His body, by willing and meek submission to being crucified unjustly.

Here is Scripture showing who put our sins upon Jesus on the cross:

Rom 3:19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

By the law against shedding the innocent blood, sinful man is guilty of abusing Jesus' body. The sins upon His body ar ethe marks of inflicting their own unrighteousness upon Him. God did not asasult nor crucify His own innocent Son's body on a tree, nor was it justified by His law.

God was not the smiter by law, as all them at the cross believed:

Isa 53:3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

And, when the Lord of all the earth is sinfully slain, then His innocent blood is upon all the land of the earth.

In the crucifixion of Jesus Christ the Son of God, we see our sins working against Him on His own body. Our sins laid upon Him, are the marks of our sinful acts born upon His body. When we see Jesus Christ crucified on a cross, we see our own sins at work upon His own body.

Not only the wicked hands doing so, are guilty of His innocent blood, but all hands that sin are judged guilty of the same, and made worthy of execution by the law:

Deu 19:9If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways...That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

All the world was condemned before the Son of man came in the flesh, and is exceeding condemned at the cross. He came not to condemn a condemned world, but the world by recieving Him not, greatly condemned itself by unjustly crucifying Him and shedding His innocent blood unto death.

We that have sinned are the ones that grievously made our sins on His body, and marked Him as smitten of God. It was not the righteous Lord and Judge of all the earth that imputed any sin to the guiltless, nor put any sinful mark upon His own Son's body:

Gen 18:25That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

This is the true gospel. Cain committed premeditated murder but ias terrible as that is, was it unforgiveable?
One Jewish version has Cain saying, "Is my punishment so great that it cannot be borne?" As if asking God. The YLT says,
"And Cain saith unto Jehovah, 'Greater is my punishment than to be borne." <---but this could be a question.( Like Lord,) "Greater is my sin than can be borne? ( more than others) I'm not positive on that.

 

[RBDERRICK]

This is the true gospel.

Yes. No sinner is imputed righteousness at the cross, but all sinners are imputed guilty of shedding His blood.

Only by His resurrection can His enemies repent and find mercy, from the victoriously risen Lord over all His enemies.

Psa 110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Cain committed premeditated murder but ias terrible as that is, was it unforgiveable?

This is not about murder being forgiveable, but about Cain's guilt slaying his brother foreshadowing the guilt of all sinners, for the judicial murder of Jesus Christ, the Son of man.

The blood of Jesus Christ speaks better things than that of Abel, though they both cry guilty from ground, because Jesus Christ, not Abel, rose again to forgive shedding His righteous blood.

If Jesus had not risen again, then even as Cain departed condemend from the presence of the LORD, all sinners would depart the cross condemned, without any hope of mercy and cleansing from the Son.

Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

If Jesus' death on the cross was His finished work on earth, then His resurrection work to save and justify sinners that repent, would never be done.

 

[RBDERRICK]

One Jewish version has Cain saying, "Is my punishment so great that it cannot be borne?" As if asking God. The YLT says,
"And Cain saith unto Jehovah, 'Greater is my punishment than to be borne." <---but this could be a question.( Like Lord,) "Greater is my sin than can be borne? ( more than others) I'm not positive on that.

We only need to go to other Scripture to teach any Scripture. Just manipulating translation doesn't prove anything.

Murder is forgiveable, beginning with Cain, as well as the wicked hands that judiciously murdered the Son of God. The LORD gave Adam and Cain space to confess and repent, even as the Lord Jesus now gives every sinner on earth space to repent.

Cain departed from the LORD, rather than repent.

1Jo 3:12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Cain killed righteous Abel, because Cain was evil, and repented not.

Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Therefore, Cain, like Esau, was angry and crying about his punishment, rather than having any sorrow about killing his brother. He was complaining to the LORD against any punishment.

Gen 4:14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

And afraid of less merciful men.

Cain was first a self-righteous religious hypocrite, and became a murderous, angry, coward, that blamed the LORD for his woes in life. First by daring to reject his personally special sacrifce, then by declaring him guilty of murdering his own brother, and the last straw was to actually punish him for it, which put his life at risk of more vengeful men.

Perhaps the LORD should have just killed him outright, and be done with all the pathetic show of self-justifying indignant and cowardly evil. But alas, the LORD is merciful, and so declared Cain was off limits to justified execution.

2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes. No sinner is imputed righteousness at the cross, but all sinners are imputed guilty of shedding His blood

Even Judas Iscariot knew what Moses said,
"Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood " Mt.27:24 KJV

Only by His resurrection can His enemies repent and find mercy, from the victoriously risen Lord over all His enemies.

Psa 110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.



This is not about murder being forgiveable, but about Cain's guilt slaying his brother foreshadowing the guilt of all sinners, for the judicial murder of Jesus Christ, the Son of man.

The blood of Jesus Christ speaks better things than that of Abel, though they both cry guilty from ground, because Jesus Christ, not Abel, rose again to forgive shedding His righteous blood.

Jesus' blood didn't cry guilty on earth to condemn, but to correct, because His blood = His life (His eternal life) which shows Gods' will for us is to turn to Him so we are found not guilty. Abel probably prayed for God not to lay charge to His brother (righteous blood.)
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." Lev.17:11
He lived as though He was no better than any other human in the world. He lived according to the law, except when it came to condemning, He was silent,
"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. "Jn.5:45 KJV

If Jesus had not risen again, then even as Cain departed condemend from the presence of the LORD, all sinners would depart the cross condemned, without any hope of mercy and cleansing from the Son.

I believe If the Faithful witness on earth had said "guilty" to the Faithful Judge in Heaven fire would have fallen on Cain immediately, but Jesus lived as a man under the law where 2 witnesses were needed to convict.

Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

There's the First Witness.
from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness Rev.1:5 KJV
Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find? Pro.20:6 KJV

The 2nd faithful witness of "tribulation" is the Holy Spirit from Heaven. Even so, the law on earth will not be broken. Faiithful believers as one body in Christ willbe attested to by Him,

and I will give to My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy days, a thousand, two hundred, sixty, arrayed with sackcloth; Rev.11:3 YLT

Not for 3 1/2 years, but of the 3 1/2 years our Saviors' ministry on earth lasted.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both inJerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Act.1:8 KJV

"If Jesus' death on the cross was His finished work on earth, then His resurrection work to save and justify sinners that repent, would never be done.

I hope you realize you're saying God in the OT couldn't forgive any sins until He was sinned against even more. Whenever God appears in the Bible insert the name "Jesus." It can be a real eye opener.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

We only need to go to other Scripture to teach any Scripture. Just manipulating translation doesn't prove anything.

Murder is forgiveable, beginning with Cain, as well as the wicked hands that judiciously murdered the Son of God. The LORD gave Adam and Cain space to confess and repent, even as the Lord Jesus now gives every sinner on earth space to repent.

Cain departed from the LORD, rather than repent.

1Jo 3:12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Cain killed righteous Abel, because Cain was evil, and repented not.

Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Therefore, Cain, like Esau, was angry and crying about his punishment, rather than having any sorrow about killing his brother. He was complaining to the LORD against any punishment.

Gen 4:14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

And afraid of less merciful men.

Cain was first a self-righteous religious hypocrite, and became a murderous, angry, coward, that blamed the LORD for his woes in life. First by daring to reject his personally special sacrifce, then by declaring him guilty of murdering his own brother, and the last straw was to actually punish him for it, which put his life at risk of more vengeful men.

Perhaps the LORD should have just killed him outright, and be done with all the pathetic show of self-justifying indignant and cowardly evil. But alas, the LORD is merciful, and so declared Cain was off limits to justified execution.

2 Peter 3:9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I think the end of an individuals life is the "end times" for that person. I relate what Jesus said of the entire world from beginning to end as though He was talking about me. I'm glad I did.
I'm sorry we fon't agree.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Jesus' blood didn't cry guilty on earth to condemn, but to correct,

Murderers are judged with condemnation, not correction.

because His blood = His life (His eternal life)

Not His natural blood.

Mat 23:35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

which shows Gods' will for us is to turn to Him so we are found not guilty.

Only because He rose again from the dead. If not, then all sinners remain condemned without hope of mercy and washing the conscience clean.

Abel probably prayed for God not to lay charge to His brother (righteous blood.)

What's not probable, is that the LORD heard his blood cry out from the ground against his murder.

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls:for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." Lev.17:11

Jesus' blood was not that of a bull or goat. God did not command men to shed His Son's blood, nor did God do so Himself.

Jhn 6:53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Jesus' command is not canabalism. Jesus' blood that washes away sins, is of His Spirit by His resurrection from the dead.

He lived as though He was no better than any other human in the world.

If you mean He had the natural flesh and blood body of all men, and suffered the same trials of obdience to God, then true.

Heb 2:17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 2:18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

He lived according to the law, except when it came to condemning, He was silent,
"Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. "Jn.5:45 KJV

Mat 23:25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

The only time He was silent was on the cross in obedience to the Father to sumbit to wicked hands as a meek lamb for the slaughter.

Isa 53:7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

He made no defence for Himself, not condemned His false accusers.

I believe If the Faithful witness on earth had said "guilty" to the Faithful Judge in Heaven fire would have fallen on Cain immediately,

The world is full of probablities from personal opinions. Those and $2:25 get you a cup of coffee.

but Jesus lived as a man under the law where 2 witnesses were needed to convict.

True. And they gave two false witnesses to convict wrongly, and failed pertaining to the temple.

Therefore, they falsely convicted Him a blasphemer for calling Himself Son and making Himself God. Which He was.

Jhn 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find? Pro.20:6 KJV

True. Which is why they all forsook Jesus and counted Him smitten of God, because He opened not His mouth to defend Himself.

Innocent men may submit to error or abuse of the law, but no innocent submits to death by the law, without any defence made.

This is why all at the cross believed Him guilty of blasphemy and worthy of death by the law of God.

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

And this is how all at the cross are concluded guilty of His blood and unbelief in Him as Christ and Son of God, the Jew first and also the Gentile.

That by His resurrection He might have mercy on any sinner that repents of His name's sake:

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom{11:32} For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 4:25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Whenever God appears in the Bible insert the name "Jesus." It can be a real eye opener.

The LORD's new name of Jesus Christ was not made known, until He comes in the flesh.

Mat 1:1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Mat 1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

And so only with Matthew 1, can we insert His new name in the Bible for the Lord and God. And we only do so, if the true Lord and God is not written the Father or Holy Spirit.

However Christ is revealed in the NT, as being the LORD of the OT making covenant with His people:

Gal 3:17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And so, we can insert Christ for LORD at any time in the Bible.

We can also do the same with the Word throughout all the Bible, where God is spoken of, being God in the beginning, and with God from the beginning.

 

[RBDERRICK]

There's the First Witness.from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness Rev.1:5 KJV

The 2nd faithful witness of "tribulation" is the Holy Spirit from Heaven. and I will give to My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy days, a thousand, two hundred, sixty, arrayed with sackcloth; Rev.11:3 YLT

Not for 3 1/2 years, but of the 3 1/2 years our Saviors' ministry on earth lasted.

The Holy Spirit is not the faithful witness killed on earth and bodily resurrected from death. And the faithful witness Jesus Christ was buried for 3 days, not exposed on earth for 3 1/2 days.

Some errors take some study to expose by Scripture, and other erros are painfully obvious.

This is why teaching probablities and personal speculation is no good with the Bible. Because it only comes from disregarding the plain record of the Bible.

I hope you realize you're saying God in the OT couldn't forgive any sins until He was sinned against even more.

9. Do not speak for other members by declaring what they believe or make leaps and draw your own conclusions. Let them state their own beliefs and arguments.

I have found that people who mangle what others teach from the Bible, begin that practice by first mangling the Bible to teach something else.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I think the end of an individuals life is the "end times" for that person.

This is true, as well as great tribulation in life. No tribulation is greater than our own, when we are enduring it.

However, the Lord's prophecy of His return, is with the greatest tribulation over all the world, since the days of Noah.

Mat 24:37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I relate what Jesus said of the entire world from beginning to end as though He was talking about me. I'm glad I did.

So do I when it pertains to me, which is all His commandments, beginning with repent of my own sins and trespasses:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[Runningman]

What man did for the evil to the Son, God works to the good by the gospel of the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 17:30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

As righteous Abel's blood cried guilty to God against his murderer, so Jesus' innocent shed blood cries guilty to God against all sinners. But the gospel of His resurrection speaks of better things than unredeemable guilt as that of Cain:

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Whereas Abel was did not rise again from the earth, so that Cain had none to repent, Jesus Christ now risen from the dead speaks of mercy and forgiveness for them that repent.

Whereas the cross speaks of guilt by the death of the Son on earth, the gospel promises reconciliation from heaven by His resurrection.

Rom 5:10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
At His death none are reconciled to God, but by His death through His resurrection, the enemies that repent are reconciled to God.

1 Cor 15:2For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

All the world of sinners are alienated from Jesus at the cross. But His death was made also to be for us; for by His death, He could rise again in all victory to offer mercy to His enemies that repent.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

He died for us to repent with godly sorrow, that by His resurrection He can justify us through mercy.

Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Heb 9:22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Through His innocent blood shed on the cross, He is able by law to forgive all His enemies, solely by repentance with godly sorrow, and wash them clean by His blood and Spirit. None of His enemies need die for shedding the innocent blood, because the innocent One is risen with power to forgive His own slayers.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

At the cross, all the world is made sorry, with no hope of being reconciled to the crucified Son. But by His resurrection all the world might be saved, not only for the Jew that slew Him, but also for the Gentile that sinned against Him.

Jhn 3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Gal 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Were sins applied to God or were sins applied to a man?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes. No sinner is imputed righteousness at the cross, but all sinners are imputed guilty of shedding His blood.

Right.

Only by His resurrection can His enemies repent and find mercy, from the victoriously risen Lord over all His enemies.

Right. No dead man can do anything.

Psa 110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

This is in reference to our High Prriest.

This is not about murder being forgiveable, but about Cain's guilt slaying his brother foreshadowing the guilt of all sinners, for the judicial murder of Jesus Christ, the Son of man.

Gently, there was nothing "judicial" about the Messiahs' murder. The law through Mosez was viiolated in evert way when our Lord was betrayed by Judas, the Sanhedrin and Pilate.

The blood of Jesus Christ speaks better things than that of Abel, though they both cry guilty from ground, because Jesus Christ, not Abel, rose again to forgive shedding His righteous blood.

Dear brother, Jesus never cried out for justice on earth,

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Lk.23:34 KJV

And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgivetheir sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exo.32:31-32 KJV

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sinto their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Act.7:59-60

If Jesus had not risen again, then even as Cain departed condemend from the presence of the LORD, all sinners would depart the cross condemned, without any hope of mercy and cleansing from the Son.

In the eyes of the wicked religious leaders, they were putting Jesus to death.
In the eyes of God (Jesus), He was putting "the flesh" (of human desire for vengence) to death.

Jhn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
If Jesus' death on the cross was His finished work on earth, then His resurrection work to save and justify sinners that repent, would never be done.

But He's speaking of Aarons' ministry "under the law." Sinners needed to confess and repent in the presence of Aaron over the blood of the sacrifice. Aaron then had to leave the pesence of God.

But after hearing our confession, Jesus sat down. Guess we'll find out at His judgment seat if our confession was genuine.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

True. Which is why they all forsook Jesus and counted Him smitten of God, because He opened not His mouth to defend Himself.

Our meek Savior only warned sinners of coming condembation. He never once as a "man under the law" out right condemned anyone. If Jesus had opened His miuth to condemn This entire world (with the exception of people who already believed) woukd have been incinerated.

Innocent men may submit to error or abuse of the law, but no innocent submits to death by the law, without any defence made.

Only One did and His defense was,

.....in secret have I said nothing. Why askest thou me? ask them which heard me, what I have saidunto them: behold, they know what I said. Jn.18:20-21

This is why all at the cross believed Him guilty of blasphemy and worthy of death by the law of God.

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

And this is how all at the cross are concluded guilty of His blood and unbelief in Him as Christ and Son of God, the Jew first and also the Gentile.

That by His resurrection He might have mercy on any sinner that repents of His name's sake:

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom{11:32} For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 4:25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Jesus was "delivered for our offences" to show His reluctance to destroy sinners who spit all over Him.

In other words,

Friend 1 - "I made a big mistake beating that innocent man. Sure wish he was alive so I could ask forgivness."

Friend 2 - "Your wish came true.l

 

[RBDERRICK]

Were sins applied to God or were sins applied to a man?

Try reading again. It's pretty clear from the argument of Scripture, that sins are applied only to the ones sinning, not to the innocent man and Son of God on the cross.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The LORD's new name of Jesus Christ was not made known, until He comes in the flesh.

Jesus was His old Name.

And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jn.6:42 KJV

... I will write upon him my new name. Rev.3:12 KJV

The world never called Him

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Rev.19:16 KJV

Mat 1:1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Mat 1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

And so only with Matthew 1, can we insert His new name in the Bible for the Lord and God. And we only do so, if the true Lord and God is not written the Father or Holy Spirit.

However Christ is revealed in the NT, as being the LORD of the OT making covenant with His people:

Gal 3:17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And so, we can insert Christ for LORD at any time in the Bible.

We can also do the same with the Word throughout all the Bible, where God is spoken of, being God in the beginning, and with God from the beginning.

I have no problem inserting "God" into Mt.1:1 and Mt.1:21 because Isaiah said, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa.9:6 KJV

I won't argue symantics bro. We both know what Isaiah meant.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

This is true, as well as great tribulation in life. No tribulation is greater than our own, when we are enduring it.

However, the Lord's prophecy of His return, is with the greatest tribulation over all the world, since the days of Noah.

Mat 24:37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

So do I when it pertains to me, which is all His commandments, beginning with repent of my own sins and trespasses:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Look very very carefully at Mt.24. The "abomination that brings desolation" is the rejection of God Himself being sinned against, rejected by the ungodly.

 

[RBDERRICK]

This is in reference to our High Prriest.

True. At His resurrection from the dead.

Heb 1:13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Gently, there was nothing "judicial" about the Messiahs' murder. The law through Mosez was viiolated in evert way when our Lord was betrayed by Judas, the Sanhedrin and Pilate.

And all His apostles and disciples at the cross:

Jhn 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

Dear brother, Jesus never cried out for justice on earth,

Neither did Abel. Their righteous bood did cry out from the ground, as with all the righteous blood shed by unrighteous men.

Mat 23:35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Abel's was for Cain, and Jesus' was for all generation of sinners. Jesus' innocent shed blood at the cross, condemned the same as Abel from the ground, but speaks better things, in that unlike Abel, Jesus is risen from the dead and can offer mercy to His enemies that repent.

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Lk.23:34 KJV

Then said the Father, Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgivetheir sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exo.32:31-32 KJV

And says the Son to all His people:, He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sinto their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. Act.7:59-60

And still says the Father, Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
The point of course being that God does not forgive the sins of others, because the righteous prays for Him to:

Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

1Sa 16:1And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel?

In the eyes of the wicked religious leaders, they were putting Jesus to death.

They believed they were putting Him to death justly by the law of blasphemy. All His disciples and family wrongly believed the same:

Isa 53:7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

In the eyes of God (Jesus), He was putting "the flesh" (of human desire for vengence) to death.

Jesus didn't put His own flesh to death, the sinners did. And their wicked desire for vengeance was fully satiated by His death on the cross.

Neither did the Father smite Him to death by the law of blasphemy.

By His resurrection Jesus now takes away all lust of the flesh, from them that repent of sinning against Him at the cross, and in our own secrfet places.

Heb 6:5If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

But He's speaking of Aarons' ministry "under the law."

Heb 7:14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

He wasn't in Aaron's ministry at all.

Jesus speaks of all the prophecies about His death on the cross being fulfilled, and gave up the ghost.

His work on earth was not finished, as that of other men that die, but His works on earth were only just beginning greater than ever by His resurrection.

Jhn 5:20For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Sinners needed to confess and repent in the presence of Aaron over the blood of the sacrifice.

Sinners now need to confess and repent to Jesus over His blood shed on a cross.

His sacrifice of obedience was to the Father's command, to submit to the will of sinners without protest nor self defence nor reviling.

Aaron then had to leave the pesence of God.

Not Jesus. Not ever. Nor them confessing and repenting unto the end of this life, and resurrected in His likeness.

But after hearing our confession, Jesus sat down.

Jesus sat down long before we were ever born into the world.

Heb 1:3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

As with Stephen, He can stand up for them that repent, and then sit down.

Luk 15:10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Guess we'll find out at His judgment seat if our confession was genuine.

True. By works judged good or bad.

But of course we can surely know for ourselves in this life, by doing those things necessary to ensure we do not fall in the end by bad works:

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Murderers are judged with condemnation, not correction.

No we're not,
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1Jn.3:15 NKJV

I thought we were starting to agree. Paul had believers murdered.