Who put our sins upon Jesus on the cross?

[journeymanisnothing]

RBDERRICK
I have read your responses and although I agree with most of it, we seems to be spinning our wheels on a few things.
I have very recently noticed some things that I think are rather strange conversations between iur Lord, his half brothers and the religious leaders.
I would like to ask you why you think the people who took oart in those conversations said what did.

His half brothers don't believe in Him and want Him to go to the feast and do miracles and "show Himself" to the oeople. So Jesys says,
My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready. Jn.7:6 KJV

What did He mean by "your time"?

I'm just curious about your opinion and I don't want to oredjuice yiu with my opinion. I would ask nd hooe you would not go to any commentary on this passage, but would just read it plainly yourself and ask, Why ids Jesus saying "Your time is always ready"?

If yiu want my opinion first jyst ask. I'm not trying to trick you. I just want your own ooinion.
If yiu don't want to give me yiur view, then I won't pist t the one about Jesys and the Pharisees.
Whatever you do thanks

 

[RBDERRICK]

Isaiah 53
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;

So the LORD bruised Jesus' body? The Father was the smiter that scourged His back? Then Jesus was guilty of blasphemy for calling Himself Son, so that the LORD's hand was with the wicked?

Lev 24:16And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

Deu 19:12Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.

So, the accusers were right by the law to condemn the Son to death without pity? So that He was indeed smitten of God?

Psa 69:20Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

And the LORD took pleasure in beating His own Son to death. And yet, He doesn't even take pleasure in the death of the wicked?

Eze 33:11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked;

Luk 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Is this when the LORD was taking such pleasure in bruising Jesus Christ?

It takes an act of will to confuse the enemy killing obedient troops in battle, with blaiming the good commander for sending them.

The wording of Scripture alone ought to forbid any notion of the LORD Himself unlawfully bruising any innocent man, much less His own Son, and taking pleasure in it.

Deu 19:9That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Pro 6:16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Deu 19:12Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.

If the LORD's hand by law did bruise Jesus Christ, then either Jesus was guilty by the law of blasphemy, and rightly crucified, or else the LORD is guilty of shedding the innocent blood, and must Himself be killed by law.

Perhaps, the Father's hand unjustly executed Jesus, and then the risen Lord Jesus rightly executed the Father. Talk about the wicked myth of Cronus and Zeus.

The Father was pleased to command His Son into submission of the wicked hands, and the Son was pleased to do so for the Father's sake. Both knowing that His resurrection was at hand. And now by the good pleasure of the Father and the Son, any enemy that repents may find mercy of forgiveness, and be justified by His faith.

The LORD did not bruise Jesus' body, any more than He did Job's. Nor did He lay any charge of guilt to His innocent Son, that always pleased the Father in life, upon the cross, and unto death.

 

[RBDERRICK]

when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,

Jesus willingly submitted to wicked men as an offering to God, not to man. He died for our sins, but was not made guilty by our sins. He was only made dead by our sins, not guilty.

The Lamb of God was not a scapegoat, with figurative sins placed upon him by the commanded hands of priests.

Neither His body nor His blood was that of bulls and goats. The foreshadowing of the scapegoat to the Lamb of God, was only in that they both submitted willingly. But no sins and errors of the people figurative nor real, were laid on the Son, other than the sinful stripes upon His body.

God does not impute sin to the righteous, nor does He lay sin upon any soul. God does not tempt any man to sin, much less put sin on any soul, thus making him a sinner.

he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

And this is the resurrection from the dead, that He sacrificed His life for. For this cause, it pleased both Father and Son to die by the unjust, that He might rise again for the just seed that repent and live righteously by His faith.

He died because of all sinners, but died and rose again only for them that repent of His unjust death, at all our hands.

Act 2:23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Were all those at Pentecost also in the judgment room to accuse Him? Were they with the smiters to scourge His body? No. But all that sin and repent not, are guilty of His blood on their hands.

Who will say they had no hand in crucifying the Son of God, contrary to the Scripture? Who says they would not have fled like Peter, though the Lord prophesied all would? Who will say they would have defended and stood with Him in the judgment room and on a cross?

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

A believer may now say, "Oh, but I believe and would have stood by Him". So did His disicples, until He submitted to the officers, and then they all fled. Many believe by His resurrection, but none believe by His death. At the cross, there were and are no believers in Jesus Christ the Son of God at the cross.

None are imputed righteousness at the cross, with the Son imputed sin, else them that slew Him did so righteousy by the law of blasphemy.

And them that sin today are not crucifying Him anew to themselves, because they are imputed righteousness by His death.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I'm aware of this now more than ever That's why Jesus doesn't need to leave the "GWT" for "one thousand" more years by earth time to subdue His enemies.

He needed to do so to fulfill prophecy of doing so Himself in person. The Jews demanded He do so the first time, and still look for another Christ to do so. And some Christians say He will never do so.

 

[RBDERRICK]

RBDERRICK
I have read your responses and although I agree with most of it, we seems to be spinning our wheels on a few things.

True. That's the way or irreconciable disagreement. That's why it's best to move on, unless something new is offered into the mix. So far that's been the case.

His half brothers don't believe in Him and want Him to go to the feast and do miracles and "show Himself" to the oeople. So Jesys says,
My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready. Jn.7:6 KJV

What did He mean by "your time"?

People that live by their own will, always do things on their own timetable.

Them that live only by the will of another, only do things at the time given by another.

Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

In the military our time is never our own, but always on call by the commander.

Mar 8:34And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Crucifying our old man for Jesus' sake is doing away with our own will and works, that we may only do the will and works of God that calls us, even as the Son with the Father.
Heb 4:10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
No man is justified at the cross of Jesus' death, but only them that repent are justified by the cross of our own will and life's death.

Why ids Jesus saying "Your time is always ready"?

People that live by their own will alone, are ever ready to do their own thing alone.

Such a time of man's own will on earth begins with disobeying God's will, as Adam first did. But the 2nd Adam never did.

And them in Christ Jesus also do not have any time for our own will and way and life, even as the Son on earth:

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Th 4:1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

Gal 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

True. That's the way or irreconciable disagreement. That's why it's best to move on, unless something new is offered into the mix. So far that's been the case.

Good, because that's really the only reason I wanted your unbiased thinking in why Jesus said "your time" being "always ready."

People that live by their own will, always do things on their own timetable.

I agree most of the time we are like that, but if loved ones like our mothers or fathers asked for help at an inconvient time we would alter our plans. But I do agree for I don't want to share "my time" is a proper reason why Jesus said that.

Them that live only by the will of another, only do things at the time given by another.

Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

In the military our time is never our own, but always on call by the commander.

Mar 8:34And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Crucifying our old man for Jesus' sake is doing away with our own will and works, that we may only do the will and works of God that calls us, even as the Son with the Father.
Heb 4:10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
No man is justified at the cross of Jesus' death, but only them that repent are justified by the cross of our own will and life's death.

People that live by their own will alone, are ever ready to do their own thing alone.

Such a time of man's own will on earth begins with disobeying God's will, as Adam first did. But the 2nd Adam never did.

And them in Christ Jesus also do not have any time for our own will and way and life, even as the Son on earth:

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Th 4:1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

Gal 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

That makes sense to me and doesn't disagree with my view, except when I read it yesterday it came out, "I'm not ready to reveal Who I am, but you can go whenerver you want and tell them about me."
Then I wondered how on earth could people He grew up in the same house with people who (no doubt in my mind) saw the things He was doing came "not believe in Him?"
I try to put myself, how would I tryly feel if He was saying "your time" to me in that vein.
I think if yiu and I were His brothers we would be up at the crack of dawn telling the festival goers that "Our big brother is coming!!!" But we don't live in 1st century Israel, where every citizen was afraid if being excomunicated from the synagogue for believing in Him.
Anyway I don't think we disagree here. As you said, "I'm too busy" or as I offered, "I believe but I'm still scared" it fits the text perfectly.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

He needed to do so to fulfill prophecy of doing so Himself in person. The Jews demanded He do so the first time, and still look for another Christ to do so. And some Christians say He will never do so.

Well that was the other one I was thinking about.
The scibes said, "Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? Jn.8:4-5
I don't see anything wrong with that question, but then it says, "This they said, tempting him,that they might have to accuse him. " vs.6
Tempting Him about what? It's a logical question for someone preaching forgiveness.
I'll tell you the thought that came into my mind and I had this thought because (again just recently) I began thinking of some of Jesus' answers (concerning the law) from a defense attorneys' view, or a witness, but not the judge ) even though He is.
I think they might have been trying to set Him up. I think it's possible if Jesus answered, "You're right that's what Moses said", they might have responded, "Well people are thinking you're the prophesied Messiah the geeatest teacher and upholdrr of the lae. Here's your rick."
Something like that?

 

[RBDERRICK]

It did please our Father to see the way His Son suffered sinners like me, instead of destroying sinners like me.

Mat 17:17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

He suffered sinners all His life on earth, until He suffered at the hands of sinners unto death on a cross.

Changing the argument ends any honesty in the argument. And so ends any argument about who put their sins on Jesus Christ by the cross.

As one man said, "There has been only one perfect man on earth, and we killed Him."

I take this personally. He's talking about an innocent man being put to death by sinners like me.

As all we that have sinned should know our personal guilt at the cross.

However, the good news is that by His resurrection we can repent and crucify our old man, and no longer be like sinners still guilty of His blood and crucifying Him to themselves today.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The passages you just cited show my Lord asking how they can escape. That's called pleading, not condemning.
Jesus warned of coming judgment if sinners didn't repent. Warning is not condemning. Jesus condemned no one.

There is judged with condemnation. He condemned some for their present guilt of evil deeds and unrighteousness, they must repent of or be damned in the judgment.

There is also condemning one to hell that has no repentance, which He did with some blaspheming the Spirit.

Now show me in the passages you used as a proof texts where Jesus condemned anyone.

And one in particular that would betray Him:

Jhn 17:12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Mat 17:17Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

He suffered sinners all His life on earth, until He suffered at the hands of sinners unto death on a cross.

I agree with your comments here. I believe his suffering that way is what it means when it says, "He bore the sin of many," Isa.53:12 KJV

Changing the argument ends any honesty in the argument.

I believe the meaning of, "He bore the sin of many" means when erligious leaders tried to contradict Jesus they were sitting against him.
I believe when people mocked him they were sitting against him.
I believe when people spit on him they were sitting against him.
I believe when he was tortured and executed it was sin against him.

I believe as people were doing these things to him he still prayed for them,

And made intercession for the transgressors.

If that is whhat you mean then I agree,
Changing the argument ends any honesty in the argument.

As all we that have sinned should know our personal guilt at the cross.

Amen!

RBDERRICK
However, the good news is that by His resurrection we can repent and crucify our old man, and no longer be like sinners still guilty of His blood and crucifying Him to themselves today.

I fully agree.

---

 

[RBDERRICK]

Anyway I don't think we disagree here. As you said, "I'm too busy" or as I offered, "I believe but I'm still scared" it fits the text perfectly.
Thanks for sharing.

Not sure where 'too busy' is from what I said. Other than being to busy with sinning to obey the Lord.

No longer living by our own will, does not exclude us to honoring mother and father.

And being scared is one thing, but denying Him is another entirely.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

There is judged with condemnation. He condemned some for their present guilt of evil deeds and unrighteousness, they must repent of or be damned in the judgment.

Please consider that Jesus warning someone that they are in a state of comdemnation doesn't mean Jesus was condemning them
He was only warning them that the wrath of God was abiding on them unless they repented. He was telling them to repent because of Gods'coming judgment.

There is also condemning one to hell that has no repentance, which He did with some blaspheming the Spirit.

I hear what you are saying, but even these people who were blaspheming the Holy Spirit were being warned that if they didn't repent they would be damned for doing it.
He was telling the Pharisees sinners who speak against the Spirit now are not forgiven now. And if they don't repent of it now they may will not be forgiven after they die.

And one in particular that would betray Him:

Jhn 17:12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Only the son of perdition, the one who is unrepentant no matter how much truth Giod shows Him... never has forgiveness. Not in thus world or the one to come,

He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Rev.22:11

I have to go out for a bit. Please excuse me.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The scibes said, "Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? Jn.8:4-5
I don't see anything wrong with that question, but then it says, "This they said, tempting him,that they might have to accuse him. " vs.6
Tempting Him about what?

The temptation was not to stone her according to law. The temptation was to execute anyone forbidden by Roman rule.

They were tempting Jesus to become a zealot for national Jewish law over Roman law. They also falsely accused Him of defying Caesar, by calling Himself a king, that Rome did not aprove.

He called Himself the Son of God, not a king of Israel. Others called Him the born king of Israel, and zealots tried to make Him king, which He refused.

I think they might have been trying to set Him up. I think it's possible if Jesus answered, "You're right that's what Moses said", they might have responded, "Well people are thinking you're the prophesied Messiah the geeatest teacher and upholdrr of the lae. Here's your rock."
Something like that?

If He had been in the days of Moses, Joshua, Solomon, Nehemiah, He would have, since He authorized them to do so by law.

But He was in the days of Rome with Judea being a province under law of Rome, not an independent nation.

He avoided being ensnared into defying Roman law as a Jeiwsh zealot, which was their goal. And He did not do so by challenging their own zeal under Roman rule, as well as showing mercy of the law by repentance.

He did the same with David and Bathsheba. Jesus Christ proved His law does not unjustly favor rulers. Every Bible Jew still knows David was forgiven by repentance and not executed by law.

It's a logical question for someone preaching forgiveness.

Jesus did not preached repetnance. He confirmed examples of repentance by forgiving their sins, including the woman caught in adultery.

Mark{1:15} The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke{13:2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? {13:3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Cor {7:10} For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Heb {6:1} Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[RBDERRICK]

I hear what you are saying, but even these people who were blaspheming the Holy Spirit were being warned that if they didn't repent they would be damned for doing it.

Them that do so have no forgiveness, which forgiveness of God can only be by repentance granted by God.

The plain reading is true, that Jesus is judging blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgiveable. And He did so against certain people standing before Him.

Only the son of perdition, the one who is unrepentant no matter how much truth Giod shows Him... never has forgiveness. Not in thus world or the one to come,

And Jesus condemned him in this life by prophecy before being betrayed. And Judas fulfilled it by killing himself rather than repent.

The effort to distinguish between condemning someone's deeds, and condemning someone to hell, is a hair that can't be split with Jesus. He did both.

And the shedding of His innocent blood has certainly condemned all men by law, for all have sinned and transgressed His law.

It is only Jesus the Lord, that could condemn men or forgive sins on earth. We cannot. We can only teach His judgment, which He did declare on earth.

Jhn 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Them that do so have no forgiveness, which forgiveness of God can only be by repentance granted by God.

I don't want to go back and forth arguing. If you would read the posts in the thread "the Holy Spirit came as a witness" ut will explain everything in scripture.
I won't have to explain that thread at all and you won't need it explained. You will understand it perfectly well if you agree with what is being said. And I know you will.

The plain reading is true, that Jesus is judging blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgiveable. And He did so against certain people standing before Him.

Blasphemy is speaking against God. Saying things anout Him that aren't true. Please read this,

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy,because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1Tim.1:13 KJV

Paul is speaking of Himself and he received forgivness because he became humbled himself. Blasphemy cannot be forgiven "in this world (unless it is repented of before we die.)

Brother, please read the thread I asked you to, because you're unaware you said God won't forgive bkasphemy and He does.
Again, blasphemy is speaking things about God that aren't true. So lets not make sure we know what Jesus taught or else we might blaspheme God and not even be aware of it.

And Jesus condemned him in this life by prophecy before being betrayed. And Judas fulfilled it by killing himself rather than repent.

Judas us called "the son of perdition. The only other person called that is "the man of sin." The only reSon he is damned is because he refused to repent no matter how much good and kindness our Lord showed Him.

The effort to distinguish between condemning someone's deeds, and condemning someone to hell, is a hair that can't be split with Jesus. He did both.

No it isn't that way at all. Please listen. People who have the Holy Spirit would never say, "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:..." 1Cor.12:3
Please go to that thead and please read it in the order it appears. Simply look at the points being made and see if if you agree with them. If you agree with them you should not have any problem understanding 99% of what the Bible really says.

RBDERRICK

And the shedding of His innocent blood has certainly condemned all men by law, for all have sinned and transgressed His law.[/quote]
Please read that thread and see if you agree with the points made. It will make a difference on how you view scripture from now on.

It is only Jesus the Lord, that could condemn men or forgive sins on earth. We cannot. We can only teach His judgment, which He did declare on earth.

Jhn 5:26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Exactly.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

RBDERRICK
My request for you to read that whole was stupid. Please if you will, just go to that thread and read posts number 38 and 46. I promise if you do that and if you agree with the points there, you will have no problem seeing the error you're making now.
I made the same error and now I know why.
I was looking cockeyed at what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said And only got half truths Which are lies.
I know others who have made the same error but stood up to our Lords' correction and now they see their error.
Please read those post and if you truly understand them you will know true correction comes only from God.

You will know exactly why the blood of Abel cried mercy not vengeance.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Blasphemy is speaking against God. Saying things anout Him that aren't true. Please read this,

Blasphemy is not the argument of no forgivness. Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is not forgiven, which is imputing the work of the Spirit to the devil.

Another way of imputing evil to the work of the Spirit, is by despising His conviction for sin and tespass.

Heb 10:29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Jhn 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Convicting the world of sin is the first work of the Spirit, that testifies Jesus is the Christ slain by sinful man. It is the draw of all sinners to God to repent of sinning against Christ, for mercy and salvation from sin.

Jhn 12:31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

The preaching of the cross the condemnation of the world of sinners for putting the Son of God to death. The gospel of the cross is mercy and forgiveness for any that repent of sinning against Him.

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy,because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1Tim.1:13 KJV

Paul is speaking of Himself and he received forgivness because he became humbled himself. Blasphemy cannot be forgiven "in this world (unless it is repented of before we die.)

This is a fair effort, but only confirms the difference between blasphemy of men, and blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

Mat 12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:

We see there are different kinds of blasphemy.

Saul of Tarsus no doubt blasphemed against Jesus as accursed and worthy of death, even as he did with Stephen. But, if Saul of Tarsus was a blasphemer of the Spirit as other leading Jews, who impute the work of the Spirit to the devil, then Saul of Tarsus would not have repented on the road to Damascus, and instead rejected the Lord as an evil angel or spirit of some sort.

But whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

This is conclusive. Anyone that does blapsheme against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven today, tomorrow, or ever.

Brother, please read the thread I asked you to, because you're unaware you said God won't forgive bkasphemy and He does.

5. Assume that other members have done their best to understand the argument(s) being presented. If you think a member has not understood what they are responding to, or if you are unsure what another member means by what they have posted, ask questions for clarification.

God won't forgiven blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. All other manner of blasphemy, including against Jesus Christ, can be forgiven with godly sorrow of repentance granted by God.

Again, blasphemy is speaking things about God that aren't true.

Bible definition pf blasphemy is railing against the true God.

Many sincere believers can be in error about Bible doctrine and prophecy, without blaspheming God.

If someone refuses to be corrected by the Bible, then the Bible calls them fools. However, if someone begins to rail against the teaching of Scriptures rather than be corrected, that could become blasphemy against the truth of God.

Judas us called "the son of perdition. The only other person called that is "the man of sin." The only reSon he is damned is because he refused to repent no matter how much good and kindness our Lord showed Him.

The original argument is of Jesus judging people on earth, which is confirmed with Judas Iscariot judged unto death. Jesus judged him the son of perdition, before Judas betrayed Him.

Jesus' judgment of people blapsheming the Holy Ghost, is another confirmation of man Jesus judging people, not only in this life but forever.

People who have the Holy Spirit would never say, "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:..." 1Cor.12:3

Once again, the argument is about Jesus on earth judging people's words and deeds.

Saints of God having the Holy Spirit, that would not call Jesus accursed, has nothing to do with trespassers, Judas Iscariot, nor blasphemers against the Holy Ghost.

 

[RBDERRICK]

And the shedding of His innocent blood has certainly condemned all men by law, for all have sinned and transgressed His law.

True. No sinner is saved at the cross, much less imputed the righteousness of Jesus Christ on the cross. And the Father certainly did not impute His righteous Son, who knew no sin on the cross, with the sins of wicked hands slaying Him.

Only at His resurrection can any man repent of sinning against the Son, and be forgiven, born again, and imputed His righteousness by grace.

 

[RBDERRICK]

RBDERRICK
My request for you to read that whole was stupid. Please if you will, just go to that thread and read posts number 38 and 46. I promise if you do that and if you agree with the points there, you will have no problem seeing the error you're making now.
I made the same error and now I know why.
I was looking cockeyed at what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said And only got half truths Which are lies.
I know others who have made the same error but stood up to our Lords' correction and now they see their error.
Please read those post and if you truly understand them you will know true correction comes only from God.

Ok.

You will know exactly why the blood of Abel cried mercy not vengeance.

No Scripture says so. And if so, and God heeded the cry, then God would have told Cain so, rather than charge him with murder.

The cry of innocent shed blood is always murder. The requests to God for mercy of men being murdered, is well pleasing to the Lord, but is not the blood God hears from the ground.

1Jo 3:12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

1Jo 3:15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

The judgment of Cain is still murder, as well as everyone crucifying the Son to themselves. The only request God hears to forgive sin, is the trespasser with repentance of godly sorrow from the heart.

 

[RBDERRICK]

RBDERRICK
My request for you to read that whole was stupid. Please if you will, just go to that thread and read posts number 38 and 46. I promise if you do that and if you agree with the points there, you will have no problem seeing the error you're making now.
I made the same error and now I know why.
I was looking cockeyed at what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said And only got half truths Which are lies.
I know others who have made the same error but stood up to our Lords' correction and now they see their error.
Please read those post and if you truly understand them you will know true correction comes only from God.

You will know exactly why the blood of Abel cried mercy not vengeance.

"We agree he rose and ascended to heaven and sent his Holy Spirit to comfort us to give us gifts and to lead us into the true ."

His first work and testimony is skipped:

Jhn 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

The first work of the Spirit in the world, that He is sent for with the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, is to convict all men of sin, not to comfort any man. For all men were concluded sinners by His death at the cross.

Gal 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Jhn 12:31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

The Spirit's first testimony to the world, is that Jesus is the Christ slain by wicked hands of man, whose unlawful death is imputed to all men, that have sinned against Him on earth.

The news of the cross is the unlawful death of God's innocent Son, to which the Spirit first bears witness. The gospel of the cross is mercy and deliverance from sin for them that repent of Jesus Christ's death, to which the Spirit first draws by conviction.

Skipping the Spirit's first work of conviction unto repentance, to speak only of comfort, is similar to skipping repentance unto salvation, to preach salvation only by faith alone.

In any case, I don't see how this has anything to do with Jesus judging the deeds of men on earth, whether for the good or the evil.

Unless of course, someone is trying to say Jesus came to earth only to speak good things, like the Spirit only coming to comfort.

Isa 30:10Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.