Growth Who Will Stand in the Gap?

[Deborah13]

But, the question is, is there a new Paul that will stand up anyway, no matter what the consequences may be? For our sakes, I hope so.

Obviously there is. The military is in retreat mode and the AFA is considering legal action. Of coarse you will have those Christians who say suing anyone is wrong. So Christians sometimes tie the hands of other Christians but that's another issue.

Quote from second article above.

"a soldier at a Mississippi base presented evidence to media that an Army presenter at a briefing identified AFA as a “hate group,” because of its stance on homosexuality and marriage, according Fox News Radio’s Todd Starnes. Army spokesman George Wright confessed the information was “acquired from an Internet search.”

Wright said the information about AFA “did not come from official Army sources, nor was it approved by senior Army leaders, senior equal opportunity counselors or judge-advocate personnel.”

But Tim Wildmon, president of AFA, one of the country’s largest Christian ministries, said the issue is not resolved.
“We are probably going to be taking legal action. The Army has smeared us. They’ve defamed the American Family Association,” he said.

Brian Fischer, AFA’s director of issues analysis, said the source likely was the Southern Poverty Law Center, which routinely labels Christians who adhere to biblical teaching on homosexuality as “hate groups.”"

http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/army-retreats-in-fight-with-american-family-association/

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Sandy Zalecki, Me, too. I had the dept of corrections in federal court over some tyrannical supervision which was forcing many to disobey federal and state motor carrier regulations. The road there was VERY dangerous (5 yrs of dcumentation and them continuouly falsely accusing me, setting me up, and other things I better still be quiet about.) Many well-meaning fellow Christians who are still in the box that says that if the govt or police find you a problem, then there MUST be a problem with you, found things I said unbelievable and tried to hide their scepticism but it came thru. To their potential damage that type ALSO thinks that if the police want to ask questions I will answer anything unreservedly, "as I have nothing to hide." I thought that way one at one time till I had a policeman who secretly has a grudge against conservative Protestants (and I with scripture on my garage door) come investigate something that clearly was perpetrated by someone a couple of houses down the road. On his last visit (he repeatedly came and asked questions) he explained that it was his position that we were his primary suspects and we then went to a Christian lawyer. He explained that that police officer had been discovered to have steered children's testimonies which led to the unjustified arrests of the assistant pastor and bus driver of a local Bible Church and told us to NOT ever talk to him or any police officer who doesn't have a warrant. A tatic which some use to make you appear guilty is to ask you the same questions over and over through a period of time and when you answer differently than before becasue your memory isn't perfect they have documented "proof" that you lied to a police officer about the incident and must be guilty. The lawyer told us to only tell the police officer to contact the lawyer the next time he came. We did and we (and the lawyer) never heard from him again. We heard about him a year or two later. He was in the headlines. He had embezzled funds from the policeman's fund to get a nice lakefront home. Now he was trusted by the police admin to handle such an account and was so CORRUPT!!! Think about it if one ever comes around asking questions. Make sure that they have justifiable reason to ask those questions and aren't just fishing. I love, respect, honor, and pray for the police; BUT we must remember that they are human just like us and are not infallable. Sometimes we need to help them do their job as it ought be done. Ask for a warrant.

Been there, done that, bought that tee-shirt. I won't go into the details. I never talk to the police unless I have a lawyer present and NEVER allow them to investigate anything without a warrant. It is just for my own protection and that of my families that I do that.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

jason, I didn't say anything about the military jailing Christians; although after what they did nationally to a national Christian broadcasting group this past summer (put them on a watch list of terrorist groups - an apology and removal was eventually granted) I wouldn't be surprised if it occurred.

I was talking about in the US now, you can be put in jail for speaking God's point of view regarding things like homosexuality or pagan faiths; it is given the label of being intolerant and categoized as a "hate crime." In 2005 Canada also legislated such laws.

Deborah13, Go back further and you'll see that you correctly understood me. I was talking about civilian life in the US. The military application came up through jasoncran's misunderstanding but it did give me the opportunity so show just how crazy the govt and our society is getting with JUST what I WAS talking about. That attack upon American Family Association by the Federal Govt (military IS the Federal Govt-their ultimate Commander and Chierf is the President) had eluded me but his misunderstanding reminded me of it. The attack Was upon CIVILIANS.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah13, Go back further and you'll see that you correctly understood me. I was talking about civilian life in the US. The military application came up through jasoncran's misunderstanding but it did give me the opportunity so show just how crazy the govt and our society is getting with JUST what I WAS talking about. That attack upon American Family Association by the Federal Govt (military IS the Federal Govt-their ultimate Commander and Chierf is the President) had eluded me but his misunderstanding reminded me of it. The attack Was upon CIVILIANS.

Yes they were attacked by a few within the military who had not been authorized by any of the brass or the white house. It only takes a few bad apples to damage the bushel.
We need to remember this ourselves and stand up and speak out against groups like the Westboro Church who wear the name Christian. They can ruin the message of the true Christian Church.

Just my two cents.

 

[gr8grace3]

who will stand in the gap? We won't see them. Take this United States for example. The blessing is leaving and things are worse because the believer has left. The blessing does not come from "christians" standing in the Gap. The blessing comes from believers who reside in this great nation. The sins and wrongdoings of a nation does not remove blessings, the removal of believers removes blessings.

Take a wealthy profitable business for example. the CEO and board members are at their annual profit meeting and trumping up all their "right" decisions for their successful year. All the while God blessed that company because the janitor was a believer and God had Him in there to feed his family and reach an unbeliever. The CEO and board members lied, cheated and stole for their profit and God blessed that company because he had a believer in there.

 

[jasoncran]

on gay and hate

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...t-be-forced-to-conduct-same-sex-marriages.php

the army didn't do it officially. was the army officially(Im not saying it doesn't do bad things or deny) torture the inmates and abu gharib? NO. it didn't that was a failure of massive proportions. I know that is my job.

that said when the afa flap went down. I was asking the chaplain on that. he said it wasn't sanctioned by the dod. he is a retired federal agent who has down work as a mp and cid agent. the kkk is a no-no. I cant quote the mcm on that its there and the cid agents frequent those meetings and when they find a soldier they arrest him and he is charged and if convicted removed from the service. the same is with the case with militias. YOU will all know when I post that im done and why if that happens. I have been labeled a homophobe. so they would be after me for sure. I don't go around saying that I don't agree with the lbgt, but they know where I stand and what I believe.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

Yes they were attacked by a few within the military who had not been authorized by any of the brass or the white house. It only takes a few bad apples to damage the bushel.
We need to remember this ourselves and stand up and speak out against groups like the Westboro Church who wear the name Christian. They can ruin the message of the true Christian Church.

Just my two cents.

So the govmt and white house says. Things ARE different in the military. You don't hardly ever get a rouge person acting on their own; unlike fantasy and erroneous hollywood portrays. The punishment for insubordination in the military is very severe, unlike in the civilian world. In combat, insubordination can get a lot of people killed in a second. It is hard to believe that someone would risk the severe punishment/cout-martial for just exercising a prejudice esp when I think all that happeded to him was he/they had to make a retraction. I doubt VERY MUCH if there was a small, insignificant element here as you say; but it is possible, time will tell.

I think we are missing the point here anyway. Relative to standing in the Gap: At the least, someone in an offical governmt capacity "sicked" his soldiers on the AFA because of them exercising their freedom of speech which they found offensive. If it hadn't been effectively stopped (AFA is a national entity-you and I have relatively zero influence and power as they do) they would still be on the domestic terrorism list of hate groups for expressing Christian values and beliefs.The hate group legislation is touching and as it is progressing will be touching in a painful way every Christian believer who takes a stand in our society for Christian values and beliefs-(remember: don't hide your light under a bushel basket? be the salt of the earth? but rather expose evil? I would rather you be Hot or Cold and not lukewarm (middle of the road/fence straddler/coward))

 

[jasoncran]

So the govmt and white house says. Things ARE different in the military. You don't hardly ever get a rouge person acting on their own; unlike fantasy hollywood portrays. The punishment for insubordination in the military is very severe, unlike in the civilian world. In combat, insubordination can get a lot of people killed in a second. It is hard to believe that someone would risk the severe punishment/cout-martial for just exercising a prejudice esp when I think all that happeded to him was he/they had to make a retraction. I doubt VERY MUCH if there was a small, insignificant element here as you say; but it is possible, time will tell.

people act rouge. but what would I know. I asked the chaplain on this. it happens. I did things that well weren't allowed but no one cared. my unit broke rules all the time. they drank and some fornicate and adulterated all against army regs in country. its not like we leaders don't know.

first off in order for any ucmj action to happen there has to be a reg on it or it has to be a lawful order. if it vague enough a good jag officer can get you off. I have seen a soldier that did sleep on duty and was reduced in rank and because we the leaders didn't have the paperwork. he got his rank back. the article 15 was null and void.

 

[jasoncran]

since we are on this subject. the feds allowed police agencies to buy and to use the mrap. stipulation? the lead swat guys works for the dod/homeland security and can in a bad situation , say a riot and an its bad that the feds are needed to quell it , take over the agency and act on behalf of the potus.

that is a larger concern for me. I can see some of this but I can see that going south.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

Deborah13 said:
"We need to remember this ourselves and stand up and speak out against groups like the Westboro Church who wear the name Christian. They can ruin the message of the true Christian Church."

Yes, I know what you are feeling, Deb. But as Katie said on the interview of the young lady who came out of that truly hateful terrorist group said on the "Katie" youtube interview, we are only feeding into their hands of helping to get them exposure. Last year there were ONLY 40 members of that cult according to Katie's research last year. Like terrorists, they depend upon us and the media to make them appear appear bigger and stronger by giving them attention. That group who call themselves Baptists disociated themselves from the anabaptists, Baptists lineage as best as I understand the Baptist denomination, way back in 1646 and they did it in a very abrasive manner in their Confession of faith of 1646 in London. (i.e.: German Baptist's (sorta like a contemporary Amish denonmination) are NOT affiliated in any way with Baptists as they are actually derived from the Bretheren denom) Yes, the westboro type have been around a LONG time. (It is esp interesting that they have another confession of faith from 1742 made in Philadelphia of all places. Maybe there is history there which made them the evil haters of homosexuals which they are.) Apparently, it is just that they hadn't figured out a way to effectively get their hate message out till recently. They are all over youtube thanks largely to the homosexual community giving them the exposure. Last June when Katie, admittedly, helped to give them exposure there were only 40 members, as I said. I would not be surprised if their number has grown now due to all of the exposure they have been given. There are more and more HATEFUL people everywhere in the world looking for a group of which to affiliate. This is why we need to focus on standing in the gap for Christ preaching the Gospel of forgiveness/salvation with the promise of love, hope, and peace and try to NOT focus on distractions.

 

[Sailingflutist-SF]

Been there, done that, bought that tee-shirt. I won't go into the details. I never talk to the police unless I have a lawyer present and NEVER allow them to investigate anything without a warrant. It is just for my own protection and that of my families that I do that.

Exactly. You never know if that police knocking on your door to ask questions is one of those rotten apples and if so your answers from a position of innocence can get twisted around in a court presentation along with conjecture and heresay to end you up, an innocent, judged guilty and in prison. I have seen it happen in a relative's life. It DOES happen. Courtrooms anymore are nothing but a manipulative, theatric presentation geared to pervert justice one way or another by biasing the jurors/judge. Justice is forgotten in the efforts and attention given to manipulating the outcome, regarless of the factual evidence or lack thereof. This is why MONEY or INFLUENCE or POWER gets you "JUSTICE" and the lack of it leaves you as dinner for the wolves.

With that in mind, standing in the gap as we ought, should be done in an organized united way and NOT as individuals: "United we stand, divided we fall." Because AFA had the influence it has (mass media of its own which is very popular among many Chriastians and they were very loudly daily, hourly, decrying the injustice of what was going on in the heat of it) the Army "cleaned house" and took AFA off the hate group/domestic terrorist list. One thing commendable about the Catholic church is just this point; they are organized in a way which makes them strong to defend and protect themselves against the oonslaught of the world. I wonder if the Potestant denominations will be able to servive with all of the divisions and subdivisions when the persecutions REALLY starts. The world could end up with a one world church again as before with that church alligned/in bed with the emporer/world ruler: but surviving.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Exactly. You never know if that police knocking on your door to ask questions is one of those rotten apples and if so your answers from a position of innocence can get twisted around in a court presentation along with conjecture and heresay to end you up, an innocent, judged guilty and in prison. I have seen it happen in a relative's life. It DOES happen. Courtrooms anymore are nothing but a manipulative, theatric presentation geared to pervert justice one way or another by biasing the jurors/judge. Justice is forgotten in the efforts and attention given to manipulating the outcome, regarless of the factual evidence or lack thereof. This is why MONEY or INFLUENCE or POWER gets you "JUSTICE" and the lack of it leaves you as dinner for the wolves.

With that in mind, standing in the gap as we ought, should be done in an organized united way and NOT as individuals: "United we stand, divided we fall." Because AFA had the influence it has (mass media of its own which is very popular among many Chriastians and they were very loudly daily, hourly, decrying the injustice of what was going on in the heat of it) the Army "cleaned house" and took AFA off the hate group/domestic terrorist list. One thing commendable about the Catholic church is just this point; they are organized in a way which makes them strong to defend and protect themselves against the oonslaught of the world. I wonder if the Potestant denominations will be able to servive with all of the divisions and subdivisions when the persecutions REALLY starts. The world could end up with a one world church again as before with that church alligned/in bed with the emporer/world ruler: but surviving.

I am not sure about what will happen. I know that the Lord is coming soon for a bride without spot or wrinkle. He will do the gathering. It will not be a church or denomination. I believe that is going to happen soon. The world seems to be winding down to the second coming. Something needs to happen or we are going to destroy ourselves.

Yes, I had a close relative of mine go to prison for a crime he didn't commit. If he would have had some money and a good lawyer he would have gotten out of it, but there was no one to stand in the gap for him. There was absolutely no evidence of any crime, but the cops made up a bunch of circumstantial evidence.

 

[jasoncran]

sadly that happens more then it should. but well I have a different take on end times. I really don't see where in the bible when the world is killing us that our blood is so that that it cant be shed so that some in the world will be saved. I don't see that god is going to remove the church from the world.