Bible Study Whom do I need to pray to for being saved? Either Jehovah or Jesus?

[JLB]

An angel appeared to Moses; not God the Father nor the Son.

If we try to understand this from a Western mind set, from our cultural perspective, it is difficult to understand. Not so from Middle Eastern thought. This is what is known as the "law of agency". "The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum "A person's agent is regarded as the person himself" (Ned.72b; Kidd.41b)." The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion, Adama Books, New York, NY, 1986, pg.15. The angel that spoke from the bush was Yahweh's agent or representative. As such, he had full authority to not only speak in His name, but to appropriate His name as in Exodus 3:14-15;

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
He was speaking exactly what Yahweh wanted him to say.

Yes, God wanted Moses to see His Son and know He is God, I AM.

That's why Jesus said -

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

The same way He said these words -

Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. Genesis 1:3


JLB

 

[JLB]

Consider Ex.23:20-23;

"Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off."
The "angel" (Heb. malak - messenger) would actually speak to Israel, but Yahweh says, "all that I speak." Yahweh would command the angel what to say and he would say it.

Saw not heard.

What you deny is Moses saw God. by your explanation the scripture would have to say Moses heard God.

It doesn't say that, is says plainly... Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:2,6

Now if the scripture said Moses covered his ears, because he was afraid to hear God's Voice, then your explanation would be credible.


Since Moses said the words, and wrote these words - Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God, then your explanation does not address my point.

I will ask you again to address the point I made, about these three different people who all said the same exact thing.


And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:2,6

and again

21 When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:21-22

and again

11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child, and you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild man; his hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him. and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
13 Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” Genesis 16:11-13


“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” 2 Corinthians 13:1



JLB

 

[JLB]

I see quite well. I know my lord and He knows me. Jesus is Gods Son not the Lord God.
I follow Him. He is the Son of God Christ the Lord. Now since you question my faith and my salvation I don't think this conversation is fruitful.

You question The Lordship of Jesus Christ, that is not wise.

Paul quotes directly from Isaiah, in writing to the Philippians...

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

This is a direct quote from Isaiah -

“Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.
Isaiah 45:22-23


Jesus Christ is YHWH, the Lord God of Israel, our great God and Savior. Titus 2;13



JLB

 

[jocor]

Your definition of Lord, is different than that of the scriptures.

The bible says Lord is YHWH.

Your definition of Lord is a man.

JW and Messianic's have the same claim, that Jesus is not God, [the Son], but just a man and is not divine.

Do not think that your repeated misrepresentations of me will go unchecked by the Almighty.

 

[JLB]

Do not think that your repeated misrepresentations of me will go unchecked by the Almighty.

Which one of the following statements do you find to "misrepresent" you?

• Your definition of Lord is a man.

Is Jesus a man, or God? Before you said Jesus was a man, and not God. Have you changed your mind?

If you confess Jesus as the Lord God of Israel, then yes, I have misrepresented you?

• JW and Messianic's have the same claim, that Jesus is not God, [the Son], but just a man and is not divine.

Again, see above.



JLB

 

[AirDancer]

This thread's topic is not about the Trinity.

After 24 pages, the OP's question has been amply answered.

Henceforth, this thread is now closed.