Why America is MIA in the End Times

[dianegcook]

I don't believe that the 2 witnesses is God and the Holy Spirit.
I believe it is Moses and Elijah.
Have power to shut heaven, that it rain not ( like Elijah had done before), and smite the earth with plaques, (as Moses)
They were killed and their bodies lie in the streets for 3 days.
So by this, I don't believe it to be the Holy Spirit nor God.

 

[Edward]

I don't believe that the 2 witnesses is God and the Holy Spirit.
I believe it is Moses and Elijah.
Have power to shut heaven, that it rain not ( like Elijah had done before), and smite the earth with plaques, (as Moses)
They were killed and their bodies lie in the streets for 3 days.
So by this, I don't believe it to be the Holy Spirit nor God.

I do believe you're right sister. Moses and Elijah both showed up at the Transfiguration together, so they're already hanging out together. There's no reason to think that they wont continue to. I've heard loads of speculation about who the witnesses will be and Moses and Elijah make the most sense.

 

[dianegcook]

[QUOEdward, post: 1060570, member: 2989"]I do believe you're right sister. Moses and Elijah both showed up at the Transfiguration together, so they're already hanging out together. There's no reason to think that they wont continue to. I've heard loads of speculation about who the witnesses will be and Moses and Elijah make the most sense.[/QUOTE]

Hi Edward
I have also heard a lot of speculation,
Some say Enoch and Elijah, because these two were taken up.
They say Moses died, thus can't be it, but one has to remember that God buried Moses.
Now what that details, I do not know, but in Jude 9 it states Michael, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses.

And as you stated, appeared together, at the transfiguration.

 

[Eugene]

Some say Enoch and Elijah, because these two were taken up.
They say Moses died, thus can't be it, but one has to remember that God buried Moses.
Now what that details, I do not know, but in Jude 9 it states Michael, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses.

Dear Sister dianegcook, Moses had committed a sin unto death physically, and I just suppose Satan had a field day with that in claiming him, but not before God and His reckoning.
Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Deut 32:48 And the LORD spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying,
Deut 32:49 Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, unto mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, that is over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession:
Deut 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
Deut 32:51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.

 

[reba]

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Nowhere in the above does it say the two witnesses are people.
Could the reference to sack cloth symbolic?
Is verse 14 literal?
Do humans literally breathe fire?
Are we as a group not a body? do we not use the term the "body politic". there is also the body of a car.... the use of the word body does not have to mean one human....

 

[dianegcook]

Dear Sister dianegcook, Moses had committed a sin unto death physically, and I just suppose Satan had a field day with that in claiming him, but not before God and His reckoning.
Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Deut 32:48 And the LORD spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying,
Deut 32:49 Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, unto mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, that is over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession:
Deut 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
Deut 32:51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.

Haven' t we all committed a sin unto death physically?
Deut.34:5,6
So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

 

[dianegcook]

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Nowhere in the above does it say the two witnesses are people.
Could the reference to sack cloth symbolic?
Is verse 14 literal?
Do humans literally breathe fire?
Are we as a group not a body? do we not use the term the "body politic". there is also the body of a car.... the use of the word body does not have to mean one human....

Hi 4afaithfulone
Do humans literal breathe fire?
Yes,
Acts 2:1-4
Cloven tongue as fire sat upon them, and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.
James 3:6
The tongue is a fire.

 

[reba]

Hi 4afaithfulone
Do humans literal breathe fire?
Yes,
Acts 2:1-4
Cloven tongue as fire sat upon them, and they were filled with the Holy Spirit.
James 3:6
The tongue is a fire.

Is this literal?

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
they are not the same

 

[dianegcook]

Is this literal?

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
they are not the same

Read Zech. 4:11-14
Also
2King 1:10

Ephes.6:17
The sword of the spirit is the word of God.
The two edged sword that cuts both ways.

You know that one can be dead spiritually don't you?

 

[Sinthesis]

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Nowhere in the above does it say the two witnesses are people.
Could the reference to sack cloth symbolic?
Is verse 14 literal?
Do humans literally breathe fire?
Are we as a group not a body? do we not use the term the "body politic". there is also the body of a car.... the use of the word body does not have to mean one human....

Neither Judaism, nor Christianity, could have overcome the persecution of pagan Rome without the hand of God lifting and guiding them through it. These are the two biblical belief systems that enlighten people about God, and bear fruit.

 

[reba]

Read Zech. 4:11-14
Also
2King 1:10

Ephes.6:17
The sword of the spirit is the word of God.
The two edged sword that cuts both ways.

You know that one can be dead spiritually don't you?

I do not understand how your response relates to the question asked.

 

[reba]

I think i agree Sinthesis

 

[dianegcook]

I think i agree Sinthesis

Zech4
2 olive branches, candlestick,
These are the 2 anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

2 King 1:10
And Elijah answered, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down and consume thy 50.
Then fire came down and consumed the 50.

How does it relate that God and the Holy Spirit is the 2 witnesses?

 

[reba]

@dianegcook i am not getting the connect to my question. My question was

Is this literal? i am asking if you understand these verses literally?

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

 

[Sinthesis]

Zech4
2 olive branches, candlestick,
These are the 2 anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

2 King 1:10
And Elijah answered, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down and consume thy 50.
Then fire came down and consumed the 50.

How does it relate that God and the Holy Spirit is the 2 witnesses?

God and the Holy Spirit are not the two witnesses. The two witnesses testify to the rest of the world about God and the Holy Spirit.

 

[dianegcook]

God and the Holy Spirit are not the two witnesses. The two witnesses testify to the rest of the world about God and the Holy Spirit.

Sinthesis
I agree!
As I stated, I believe the 2 is Moses and Elijah.

 

[dianegcook]

@dianegcook i am not getting the connect to my question. My question was

Is this literal? i am asking if you understand these verses literally?

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

No, I really Don't think it is literal.
The fire that proceeds out of their mouth is God's word.
The truth, that makes the others angry, hot.
Like the 2 edged sword that cuts both ways.
Just like some get hot with me, when they don't agree with me, lol.

 

[reba]

Thanks ...

 

[dianegcook]

Thanks ...

Sorry Reba,
Thank you for your patience!
I just assume, sometimes, when I quote scripture, that everyone gets my point.
And we all should know, that people can read a verse and get something totally different than another.

Have a good day Sister.

 

[Edward]

No, I really Don't think it is literal.
The fire that proceeds out of their mouth is God's word.
The truth, that makes the others angry, hot.
Like the 2 edged sword that cuts both ways.
Just like some get hot with me, when they don't agree with me, lol.

I do think it will be literal.

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

This is talking about people who would hurt them and that they will be killed. Gods Word is life, truth will set one free not kill them. What's hard about believing that the Witnesses will be able to shoot fire from their mouth? Seems like a minor miracle to me, considering that the Lord made galaxies, lol. Impressive, yes, very much so. Didn't Elijah already kill 50 people in that manner?

I know, something like this is very 'out of the ordinary' to us because we've never seen such a thing before. This is God that we're talking about, and scripture does say that a lot of supernatural happenings will be going on in the last days. I used to not believe in big miracles or even tongues, but over time it was revealed to me that God is real, and not who I thought He is (man's teaching), but who He is irl. Since, I have been careful to not put God in a box in my mind and limit Him. Scripture does say He did it before so it must be true.