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Why America is MIA in the End Times

jasonc What a shame He had so much to share. His stubbornness was at my cost... :hips

more like he was strongly asked to conform ... Him conform never ... so he left
 
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Kathi said:
Revelation 8:10-11 10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water.11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.
Yes you can take this passage literally for exactly the way it reads.
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Kathi you brought something to my mind as Rev talks a lot about the third beast, third part of the trees, third part of the sea, third part of the creatures, third part of the rivers, third part of the sun and stars, third part of men. My mind is wondering about the other two third parts that are not mentioned. OK, I have to dig. I love a good challenge. Do you have any takes on that?
 
for_his_glory said:
Kathi you brought something to my mind as Rev talks a lot about the third beast, third part of the trees, third part of the sea, third part of the creatures, third part of the rivers, third part of the sun and stars, third part of men. My mind is wondering about the other two third parts that are not mentioned. OK, I have to dig. I love a good challenge. Do you have any takes on that?
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3 in jewry is an important number and their recollection tish ma'bav(ad 70) has a lot to do with threes and sevens
 
for_his_glory said:
Deborah said: I do not believe that this will go on forever. Not all things have happened that are spoken of, the bodily resurrection of the dead, the final judgement, etc..

I apologize as I took that to mean you thought I meant all things have already been fulfilled in Matthew 24.
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No worries, sometimes it's hard when we are writing to each other and I'm not the best of writers. :)

I agree the rapture and the resurrection are not to separate events, but I do believe it comes right before Gods final judgement starting with the vial judgements as I believe the Church will be here until the harvest judgement of Rev 14.

I believe the two witnesses spoken of in Rev 11 is the word (God) and the Spirit (Holy Spirit) which is given to the Church (body of Christ) to preach until the day of the Lord, which is when Christ returns. John compares the two witnesses to the two candlesticks and two olive trees, which if you read Zechariah Chapter four it explains that the golden candlestick is God. The seven lamps with the seven pipes holds the oil (anointing), which is that of the seven Spirits of God: wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and Spirit of the Lord.

I believe the angels mention in Matthew 24:31 are the same angels of Rev 14 starting with the first one that gathers the harvest which are we who are in Christ as those who sleep first are raised to meet us in the air and we are changed to that new glorified body as then we will look like Christ in His glorified body.
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Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

I can see how Rev 11:4 and Zech 4:14, are talking about the same thing as the wording is almost identical and the same in context as to being beside the Lord and in front of God. So I think you are saying that the two olive trees are one the Word of God and the other the Holy Spirit. I have two questions....
1) How do you explain the 1260 days that they witness?
2) What does it mean they are clothed in sackcloth?
 
reba said:
Deborah13 for_his_glory ...


I sure appreciate the example you 2 set for the forums... One of mutual understanding, even in a disagreement, accepting each other as sisters in the Lord ... looking for discussion as apposed to 'being right'

:sohappy
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It nice to be able to discuss without feeling like I have to prove something. AND one never knows what they will be able to glean for someone else's knowledge. I enjoy talking to glory. She is a sincere seeker, a Berean.
 
for_his_glory said:
Deborah13 I love how you challenge me as it makes me dig deeper into the word to find answers, even to my own things I question. You are my sister from another Mister, which is God the Father :sohappyI would have given you a hug, but all I got is a girl hugging a guy...............>O< this will have to do, LOL.
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I feel the very same way about you. You are a joy, Sister. :yes Thanks for letting me pick your brain.
 
Deborah13 said:
No worries, sometimes it's hard when we are writing to each other and I'm not the best of writers. :)


Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

I can see how Rev 11:4 and Zech 4:14, are talking about the same thing as the wording is almost identical and the same in context as to being beside the Lord and in front of God. So I think you are saying that the two olive trees are one the Word of God and the other the Holy Spirit. I have two questions....
1) How do you explain the 1260 days that they witness?
2) What does it mean they are clothed in sackcloth?
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I'm not sure if I can condense the 1260 days that they witness, but let me put it all together as right now I think it all goes with the seven different trumpets and the women that goes in hiding. I'll work on it tomorrow morning as soon as I get all my notes together than will post it here.
 
for_his_glory said:
I'm not sure if I can condense the 1260 days that they witness, but let me put it all together as right now I think it all goes with the seven different trumpets and the women that goes in hiding. I'll work on it tomorrow morning as soon as I get all my notes together than will post it here.
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That would be great.
In the mean time I will do one as well as to how I see it working in and post here.
 
jasonc said:
when JOHN wrote that book all but him were died, so is that section about the apostles and prophets in future then? see revelation 17 and revelation 18
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Rev 18:20 is addressed to Heaven, and the holy apostles and prophets who reside there, but were martyred or persecuted by "Babylon". Babylon is the corrupt amalgam of all the religious, political and social systems of the world, which go all the way back to the tower of Babel, and the rise of paganism and idolatry almost immediately after the Flood. While Babylon is being judged, the saints of God are rejoicing in Heaven.
 
for_his_glory

I also see the two witnesses as being the Word of God but both of them, as I said the Law and the Prophets. I see the 1260 days as being tied to the Feasts. Frankly, I hope I get a lot of critiquing on this.
These days are mentioned twice in Rev. In Rev 11:3 and Rev 12:6. This is the time when the woman, who I believe are the followers of Christ, are protected, John 18:9. It is also the time when there is the war in heaven and Michael kicks satan out and onto the earth and salvation is proclaimed.
Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Using the Jewish calendar, if one counts backwards from the Passover 1260 days this lands us on the 22nd day of Tishri, the last day of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles. This day is the 8th day, sometimes referred to as the Last Great Day. Note: one of these years has the 13th month of 29 days.
I believe that this is the first 3.5 years of Christ ministry before the Resurrection beginning on the Last Great Day.
As pre- Daniel 9, the Messiah confirms a covenant for 1 week but is 'cut off' in the 70th week, 3.5 days of years, 1260 days would be the middle of that week.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: .......
The Hebrew word translated as 'cut off' in v26 is H3772, which means....
A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces)
 
Deborah13 said:
for_his_glory

I also see the two witnesses as being the Word of God but both of them, as I said the Law and the Prophets. I see the 1260 days as being tied to the Feasts. Frankly, I hope I get a lot of critiquing on this.
These days are mentioned twice in Rev. In Rev 11:3 and Rev 12:6. This is the time when the woman, who I believe are the followers of Christ, are protected, John 18:9. It is also the time when there is the war in heaven and Michael kicks satan out and onto the earth and salvation is proclaimed.
Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Using the Jewish calendar, if one counts backwards from the Passover 1260 days this lands us on the 22nd day of Tishri, the last day of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles. This day is the 8th day, sometimes referred to as the Last Great Day. Note: one of these years has the 13th month of 29 days.
I believe that this is the first 3.5 years of Christ ministry before the Resurrection beginning on the Last Great Day.
As pre- Daniel 9, the Messiah confirms a covenant for 1 week but is 'cut off' in the 70th week, 3.5 days of years, 1260 days would be the middle of that week.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: .......
The Hebrew word translated as 'cut off' in v26 is H3772, which means....
A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces)
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Deborah, I tried to condense the 1260 days, but couldn't do it and still keep within the ToS so I am sending it to your inbox. If anyone else wants a copy just send me a message.

BTW, you are not to far off with what you have posted, but there is so much more to it that you will see with what I sent you.
 
Zec 4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
Zec 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Zec 4:4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
Zec 4:5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
reba said:
Zec 4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,
Zec 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Zec 4:4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
Zec 4:5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
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The two witnesses are also symbolized by the two cherubims on either side of the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. With Jesus enthroned upon the seat, each angel looks toward Him. Rendered as a timeline, we have these messengers of both covenants focused upon Jesus' presence on earth. It doesn't matter if one reads right to left as in Hebrew, or left to right as in Greek. Either way, Judaism looks forward to their Messiah, while Christianity looks backward to our Messiah.

These two faiths are the witnesses pointing to God's work on earth. During the last half of the pagan Roman war against God's people, it would have seemed as if these two sides of the same coin were doomed to extinction. Yet after all the wars and persecution Judeo-Christian values have displaced paganism and grown into the dominant moral force on earth.
 
Malachi said:
Rev 18:20 is addressed to Heaven, and the holy apostles and prophets who reside there, but were martyred or persecuted by "Babylon". Babylon is the corrupt amalgam of all the religious, political and social systems of the world, which go all the way back to the tower of Babel, and the rise of paganism and idolatry almost immediately after the Flood. While Babylon is being judged, the saints of God are rejoicing in Heaven.
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Jerusalem is Babylon. look at those verses again. its says where the lord was crucified. that spiritual Sodom and gommorah. modern jewry to wit chassidics don't teach sodomy, they are the same as we are about it. they are anti-abortion, anti gay marriage. so if the orthodox jews eschew that whom was he talking about? ancient isreal? yup
 
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