Why didn't CHRIST invite doctors?

[Classik]

for example, when a human living in this world has the necessaries to survive, but being sick does not get (complete) healing, or it is healthy, but has no enough necessities to survive

Blessings

Okeydokey

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

ah yes punch the cancer out of a man. I wonder why some of the prosperity gospel believe in the book of revalation then? where it mentions things done and the church being attacked and slain by the enemy. I know that god allows suffering in the prosperity doctrine, but really? its a bit odd to me. to say that we are the head then be that effective of the enemy and god would just yank the church from the scene and allow the enemy to overwhelm. really odd.

or the other extreme of post mil where they could by faith usher in jesus to return.

If the Lord showed him to punch cancer out of a man, and the man was healed, what is that to you or me? It is the Lord. He kicked stuff out of people too, and they were healed.
The Church will not be here for the Day of God's Wrath as it is called in Revelation 6, for you see in Revelation 7 that we surround the throne and are the ones who were pulled out of the Great Tribulation. Also 1 Thes 5:9 and Romans 5:9 say we are now saved from all of God's wrath to come. So we won't be there for it. Praise God. On top of that, we are under a better Covenant with better promises and terms (which means by definition that it does and gives everything the old one did plus more), and so if you see God's wrath poured out on Egypt, but God's people were, though even in the midst of it all, 100% untouched by it. Think of that now at the end, on the Day of God's Wrath...and as the Scriptures say, we won't be there, we've been saved from it, praise and glory to God!

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

uhm, where does paul say give ten percent in the new testament? show me whe where? the tithe doctrine is supported usually by malachi 3:10. but well its not like my pastor doesn't teach this stuff in my church. nope he doesn't. note sarcasm.

uhm the pasture on this earth? im amil. I can take that idea and run with it but well again in the west things are a snare. I have seen it all too much. I work around all day in some shape or form with billionaire homes and millionaire homes. I don't like that life. I don't care for it. its a snare. sure one can be wealthy but really its more of a curse then its a blessing. I have family that are more blessed then me . some of them are more miserable then me. money has worries.

she GAVE during the time of what is called the tzaddik. where the temple would use that to help the poor but that is a Talmudic tradition not a tradition of the torah. show me that in the torah. not that is bad but its one of the oral laws.

oh if you own a business, you will work more then 40 hours a week running it. I know, I know a few friends whom own a business. my wife did at one time. its more then just 40 and go home. god has blessed me but to assume that I must give to get a job that pays more isn't the truth. this time last year. I was told to go to customer service, or be laid off. in that process I did pray, I gained 12 cents an hour raise and had better hours. I made probation and im one of the best workers. I have myriads of route prayers. here. that is a blessing from god. the very job that I had earlier was from god. I know that im at the covb because god ordained it to be for his purposes. its not what you make at times but also what you SPEND. IF I DIDNT HAVE a spending habit in my home. not me all the time but the other half. I wouldn't be where I am.not that she does things that are really bad just well overdoes it. but she and I have learned from that.

I could live simplier. I have prayed to god for that so that I can be with my grandkids.but to assume that im out of gods view of giving is off, as I know men who tithe and are blessed and men who give as they see fit as they are blessed. usually those are calvary chapel types as that is their doctrine they don't pass a plate around and I have seen that church grow and grow. no tithing and yet that one is one of the larger churches.

but this church back in 09 paid off its land debt.

http://www.fcog.com/give/faq/

I don't know what that church has on tithing views. but if I recall correctly last time I heard. its not a tithing type church. donations only. hmm while one can use that. but its not really defined in the nt as to what is the means. that is my argument. you are free to give by tithing or as you are lead to do so by the holy ghost.

I am not sure what you are getting at here, to be honest...talking about minimization or going without or whatever, that's all poverty talk, unless you're spending more than is coming in and you're going into debt. The Devil is always trying to get people to think shortage, poverty, lack, coming up short - don't accept those thoughts. Can't find them in Scripture either, and rather, it is the opposite. God is the same yesterday today and forever, so you look at what He did in the Old Covenant and you should be expecting MORE in the New Covenant.edited
As for the tithe, the point was since it existed with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and Abel and Cain and Abraham etc, it pre-dates the Law and always is shown to be connected with THE Blessing. It was included in the Law, but again predates the Law and so it is always in effect. In a place where God's perfect will was being done, the TITHE was happening, and it was connected to God's Blessing in Eden, and it is connected to God's Blessing now; THE Blessing, not blessings.
Jesus fulfilled the Law but He didn't do away with it. You just don't have to fulfill it, because He did, but again, tithing predates the Law, and it is why Jesus said yes, we should tithe, rather than saying, "Yes, the Law says you must tithe." So to be clear, instead of saying the Law says we should tithe (which would be the perfect place for Him to eliminate confusion on that) He said, "Yes, you SHOULD tithe..."

I have noticed that all the people that seem to fight tooth and nail against the notion of God's will being prosperity everywhere are always coming up short, living with less, bound by a poverty-spirit where they constantly talk and think and act in line with a poverty spirit of always looking to scrape off a little more here, or a little more there, or try to figure out how to pinch pennies or try to figure out how to get a bill paid, or they worry, they fear, they are bound by anxiety, and they desire and need prosperity, but have trained themselves to believe it is evil to have money in abundance or altogether.
God said it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. If money were evil, then why did God bless so many people with money and make Abraham the richest man in the world, the man whose faith we are supposed to walk in with Jesus, why did He give us the power to get wealth in Deut 8 and promise to make all our stuff multiply and do all He says in Deut 28:1-14, and so on and so on. He's the same yesterday today and forever, so He cannot then say now it is bad to be rich when all you see when God says He blessed someone is that they became rich. And especially Abraham, whose Blessing we have now by faith in Jesus according to Gal 3:13-14....look at how God blessed Abraham in Genesis 24:35, or Gen 13:2...God cannot be one way then and another way now, He's always the SAME, and if He lavished money on His people back then when He blessed them, He will do the same NOW, the only difference is now the Devil has corrupted many in the Church to think that being rich is evil and He can't get money to them because they stand against it and won't believe for it.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

Where do you get this idea from ? I think this is a man of straw to give you something to rail against.

Well, it's from the comments that were made about where certain people were saying things of that nature, that to be in faith on something means you do nothing and so therefore receive nothing, insinuating that you should have made flesh your arm instead.

 

[Gary]

I have noticed that all the people that seem to fight tooth and nail against the notion of God's will being prosperity everywhere are always coming up short, living with less, bound by a poverty-spirit where they constantly talk and think and act in line with a poverty spirit of always looking to scrape off a little more here, or a little more there, or try to figure out how to pinch pennies or try to figure out how to get a bill paid, or they worry, they fear, they are bound by anxiety, and they desire and need prosperity, but have trained themselves to believe it is evil to have money in abundance or altogether.

That's a pretty big brush you're using.
.

 

[agua.]

Well, it's from the comments that were made about where certain people were saying things of that nature, that to be in faith on something means you do nothing and so therefore receive nothing, insinuating that you should have made flesh your arm instead.

Can you present the posts where someone has said or inferred "that to be in faith on something means you do nothing". I think this is a misrepresentation but I'm willing to look again at these posts if you present them. I thought everyone here prays for Yahweh's intervention so I'd like to see who doesn't.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I am not sure what you are getting at here, to be honest...talking about minimization or going without or whatever, that's all poverty talk, unless you're spending more than is coming in and you're going into debt. The Devil is always trying to get people to think shortage, poverty, lack, coming up short - don't accept those thoughts. Can't find them in Scripture either, and rather, it is the opposite. God is the same yesterday today and forever, so you look at what He did in the Old Covenant and you should be expecting MORE in the New Covenant. Are we reading the same Bible, the Holy one?
As for the tithe, the point was since it existed with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and Abel and Cain and Abraham etc, it pre-dates the Law and always is shown to be connected with THE Blessing. It was included in the Law, but again predates the Law and so it is always in effect. In a place where God's perfect will was being done, the TITHE was happening, and it was connected to God's Blessing in Eden, and it is connected to God's Blessing now; THE Blessing, not blessings.
Jesus fulfilled the Law but He didn't do away with it. You just don't have to fulfill it, because He did, but again, tithing predates the Law, and it is why Jesus said yes, we should tithe, rather than saying, "Yes, the Law says you must tithe." So to be clear, instead of saying the Law says we should tithe (which would be the perfect place for Him to eliminate confusion on that) He said, "Yes, you SHOULD tithe..."

I have noticed that all the people that seem to fight tooth and nail against the notion of God's will being prosperity everywhere are always coming up short, living with less, bound by a poverty-spirit where they constantly talk and think and act in line with a poverty spirit of always looking to scrape off a little more here, or a little more there, or try to figure out how to pinch pennies or try to figure out how to get a bill paid, or they worry, they fear, they are bound by anxiety, and they desire and need prosperity, but have trained themselves to believe it is evil to have money in abundance or altogether.
God said it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. If money were evil, then why did God bless so many people with money and make Abraham the richest man in the world, the man whose faith we are supposed to walk in with Jesus, why did He give us the power to get wealth in Deut 8 and promise to make all our stuff multiply and do all He says in Deut 28:1-14, and so on and so on. He's the same yesterday today and forever, so He cannot then say now it is bad to be rich when all you see when God says He blessed someone is that they became rich. And especially Abraham, whose Blessing we have now by faith in Jesus according to Gal 3:13-14....look at how God blessed Abraham in Genesis 24:35, or Gen 13:2...God cannot be one way then and another way now, He's always the SAME, and if He lavished money on His people back then when He blessed them, He will do the same NOW, the only difference is now the Devil has corrupted many in the Church to think that being rich is evil and He can't get money to them because they stand against it and won't believe for it.

All this does nothing for healing.
Are you saying people lack faith, therefore are not healed?
That would be a bold statement.

 

[Edward]

our faith is reasonable. good lord. if faith wasn't able to be logical then it wouldn't be worth it. it may not be in our nature to see things that god does but when we do it makes sense. ie the order of the universe. the fact if he says don't do it.we do and we reap a seed. hmm that is evidence

Sometimes faith isn't logical brother, but we hold onto it and put our trust into Him and understand why later, after the fact. But you are right about the evidence. When we keep faith in the Lord, and He comes through for us, then that is evidence.

I don't think it does say anything in the NT about tithing but we have to remember that God does not change, and God has proven to me that He still honors tithing, because I have done it. I think that in modern day, first fruits can be reasonable construed as "gross" before deductions. It is true that tithing was all about food in the OT.

 

[jasonc]

uhm god doesn't change. you do realize that jesus never said verbally that the cross negated the torah. paul said by his actions and his nature it was superior in that he fulfilled the law, but jesus didn't destroy the torah but fulfill it. by that he completed it. the tithe was part of that. can a cursed me under the law actually enter into heaven? if so then any sin that is listed under the torah that we cant shake will keep us out.

I never said faith didn't require some type mind boggling belief and trust just that god is a god of order. if I asked by faith for god to cancel the sun out, and he did, and then it poof back and that happens all the time. then how is that actually a miracle? its a common occurance. god doesn't work like that.

the problem I have with that position is this.im giving for a monetary blessing. its not worth the bother if that is what you want. if that is. then keep it. its not in the right place.



uhm TheCurseoftheRodain

have you outdone paul? raised the dead lately? healed anyone like the apostle paul? he certainly could walk circles arounds ken Copeland. yet the man said that he learned to praise god in being blessed and in lacking. did he lack in tithing. before you tell me that the tithe existed before the law. kindly tell me what the torah is? oh its the first five books of the bible. if you noticed by definition what the tithe was to melchisedek. it was not money, it was sheep, and livestock and the fruit of the land. the coinage of the day and what do we see in the torah? the same thing. tis called oral tradition. I can do this with most of the accounts with the patriarchs. Judah and tamar. the idea of the goel is there. he had to give seed to his son and did so in bad manner but the implied law of it is there. the sons that died had to give seed to the brother that died first. it wasn't a command from god and yet he honored it. theres no command to tithe told to Abraham in the book genesis. the word tithe would likely be moses adding that since its close to what god wrote literally on the two tablets (all 613 laws)

when I read your posts I see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing about giving to man who needs to hear the word. to feed him so that he can see that jesus cared. that is what the idea of tithing was for in this type of instruction. in the torah its not that at all. its an act of blessing god by providing the means for which the priests could atone and eat. if you wanted to atone. YOU offered the sacrifice to the priest and he inspected it and he offered it on your behalf. torah 101.

poverty talk.! americans are the most wealthiest in the world. our poor are more wealthy then most in the world. I prefer the wealth only jesus can give. peace with him. blessed life in that Im whole and that doesn't have to be a car, a home. I have never failed to have a roof over my head.

that is why im disagreeing with you. the torah and jesus commanded us to care for the poor, to help the widows, to help the fatherless. etc. take matthew 7 and the torah on what the poor is to be treated lik and see what god hates. if you are going to quote galatians 3 on that. you forget that not all Hebrew faithful were wealthy. jermamiah lost his land. surely the Babylonians didn't let him have land. they let him live amongst the poor. nuff said. to him it was better then what he was like under the wicked kings. and don't give me that junk about that is before the cross when Abraham whom had the promise of blessing that you quote often wasn't poor and also was under the torah then given to him.

 

[jasonc]

I DID NOT SAY that having things is bad. I choose not to seek them. I know me. I know that I have a disposition to keep up with the jones. part of that self loathing I got healed from is just from that. im not good enough because I cant have that or do what he does. hmm. I know many a faithful and godly men who do have money and give.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

That's a pretty big brush you're using.
.

I can see your point, Gary, I do not include you in that - you seem to be seeking answers. I have had many conversations trying to sow good seed from the Word of God into many a Believer's life. Many receive it and start acting on it with tremendous results - crises are averted, healings come, money comes, etc. Many others seem to consistently and diligently look for ways to disqualify themselves and others from receiving God's promises related to wealth, health, healing, prosperity...

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

All this does nothing for healing.
Are you saying people lack faith, therefore are not healed?
That would be a bold statement.

Are you sure you quoted the right thing, or even have the right person here? (my quote had nothing to do with healing, but with money).

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

I DID NOT SAY that having things is bad. I choose not to seek them. I know me. I know that I have a disposition to keep up with the jones. part of that self loathing I got healed from is just from that. im not good enough because I cant have that or do what he does. hmm. I know many a faithful and godly men who do have money and give.

Then get delivered from that, Jesus is ready. You don't have to live in fear that you're going to self-destruct if wealth is put in your hands.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

uhm god doesn't change. you do realize that jesus never said verbally that the cross negated the torah. paul said by his actions and his nature it was superior in that he fulfilled the law, but jesus didn't destroy the torah but fulfill it. by that he completed it. the tithe was part of that. can a cursed me under the law actually enter into heaven? if so then any sin that is listed under the torah that we cant shake will keep us out.

I never said faith didn't require some type mind boggling belief and trust just that god is a god of order. if I asked by faith for god to cancel the sun out, and he did, and then it poof back and that happens all the time. then how is that actually a miracle? its a common occurance. god doesn't work like that.

the problem I have with that position is this.im giving for a monetary blessing. its not worth the bother if that is what you want. if that is. then keep it. its not in the right place.



uhm TheCurseoftheRodain

have you outdone paul? raised the dead lately? healed anyone like the apostle paul? he certainly could walk circles arounds ken Copeland. yet the man said that he learned to praise god in being blessed and in lacking. did he lack in tithing. before you tell me that the tithe existed before the law. kindly tell me what the torah is? oh its the first five books of the bible. if you noticed by definition what the tithe was to melchisedek. it was not money, it was sheep, and livestock and the fruit of the land. the coinage of the day and what do we see in the torah? the same thing. tis called oral tradition. I can do this with most of the accounts with the patriarchs. Judah and tamar. the idea of the goel is there. he had to give seed to his son and did so in bad manner but the implied law of it is there. the sons that died had to give seed to the brother that died first. it wasn't a command from god and yet he honored it. theres no command to tithe told to Abraham in the book genesis. the word tithe would likely be moses adding that since its close to what god wrote literally on the two tablets (all 613 laws)

when I read your posts I see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing about giving to man who needs to hear the word. to feed him so that he can see that jesus cared. that is what the idea of tithing was for in this type of instruction. in the torah its not that at all. its an act of blessing god by providing the means for which the priests could atone and eat. if you wanted to atone. YOU offered the sacrifice to the priest and he inspected it and he offered it on your behalf. torah 101.

poverty talk.! americans are the most wealthiest in the world. our poor are more wealthy then most in the world. I prefer the wealth only jesus can give. peace with him. blessed life in that Im whole and that doesn't have to be a car, a home. I have never failed to have a roof over my head.

that is why im disagreeing with you. the torah and jesus commanded us to care for the poor, to help the widows, to help the fatherless. etc. take matthew 7 and the torah on what the poor is to be treated lik and see what god hates. if you are going to quote galatians 3 on that. you forget that not all Hebrew faithful were wealthy. jermamiah lost his land. surely the Babylonians didn't let him have land. they let him live amongst the poor. nuff said. to him it was better then what he was like under the wicked kings. and don't give me that junk about that is before the cross when Abraham whom had the promise of blessing that you quote often wasn't poor and also was under the torah then given to him.

If you don't want to tithe and want to relegate the Scriptures about tithing in the Word to oral tradition standards then don't tithe, and don't believe the Word. I am not your judge. We'll leave it there. No need to go further on that.

When you read my posts you are seeing $$$$$$$$$$$$$ because your windshield is covered with an anti-prosperity barrier (so to speak). We're having a discussion about tithing and prosperity in the Bible...what else would we be talking about here: the gifts of the Spirit? That's like criticizing me for mentioning the Sun because we're having a discussion about the Sun...

Trying to say that the poor in the USA are better off than most in the world and therefore we should be poor and look for ways to come up short and not have enough is still poverty talk. God never told us to compare ourselves with anyone...I don't see Him saying, now Abraham, you're the richest man in the world, don't you think you should look for ways to do with less...if He wanted Him to have less, why did He bless Him and make him RICH? God is the one who did it. Just like when Abraham and Lot have so much that the land can't sustain them, who did that? God did, and His response was to enlarge their territory to give them more and more..... And He's still the same today.

You say we're commanded to help the poor - WITH WHAT? If YOU are poor, HOW can you do ANYTHING to help the poor? You think a spare $20 here or there is going to "help the poor"? That's a fish for a day my brother - their lives are no different afterward. How about you buy an apartment for a year, buy groceries and pay their bills for 6 months and buy new clothes and give them a car and set them up to succeed in a job and teach them HOW to do everything you are doing for them, THROUGH PROSPERITY FROM GOD AS THEY LEARN HOW TO WALK IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD...
Again, if you are poor, you will never do much in this world for the Kingdom of God - if the Believers are supposed to be poor and just take care of their own families then you are SELFISH. Because all you care about is yourself.
The Word says we are under the Blessing of Abraham as a tree of righteousness that is supposed to continually increase and not even notice when heat comes or be careful in the year of drought but to yield fruit unceasingly with a green waxy leaf for the birds to come eat from...what about that smacks of poverty?
You can't be a blessing to anyone else unless you are blessed.
Every place blessing is mentioned it is tied to $.
So I say it again, anyone just looking out for their own family SELFISH.
How can the Gospel be sent with poor Believers? How can you give $5,000 a week to send the Gospel all around the world if you only have enough for you and yours?
By definition you have to become rich to be able to do much in an ECONOMIC world.

Everything costs $ here, TV time, Music, Movies, Food, Fuel, Manufacturing, etc.
To sum up: the poor cannot help the poor, and until you grow beyond having your own family's needs met, you will not be able to do anything for the poor, to send the Gospel, to pay for your church buildings, to bless other Believers with cars and homes debt-free, to leave an inheritance to your children and grandchildren, etc.

God has used me to do a lot, well-before I ever had a cent. When I came to Christ, I was broke, busted, homeless dude. I had nothing. I have healed many, even raised 1 from the dead, thus far, and I am expecting to do more for the Lord; I know that I of myself can do nothing, as Jesus said, and it is the Spirit of the Father within me Who does the works. Yes, I am blessed with the Blessing of Abraham, and blessed with him (meaning blessed just the same as he was with the same properties and power of the same blessing). I'm just reading the Holy Bible. And I believe Him.

Also, Abraham heard directly from God, there was no oral tradition there. So did Moses.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

Also, Kenneth Copeland has done quite a bit (you should read the first hand accounts of the great many he has healed) in what God has told him to do. He's my partner in preaching the Gospel too. I am not ashamed of that.

 

[Edward]

jasonc:....
uhm god doesn't change. you do realize that jesus never said verbally that the cross negated the torah. paul said by his actions and his nature it was superior in that he fulfilled the law, but jesus didn't destroy the torah but fulfill it. by that he completed it. the tithe was part of that. can a cursed me under the law actually enter into heaven? if so then any sin that is listed under the torah that we cant shake will keep us out.
I never said faith didn't require some type mind boggling belief and trust just that god is a god of order. if I asked by faith for god to cancel the sun out, and he did, and then it poof back and that happens all the time. then how is that actually a miracle? its a common occurance. god doesn't work like that.

the problem I have with that position is this.im giving for a monetary blessing. its not worth the bother if that is what you want. if that is. then keep it. its not in the right place.

brother, i think that I must be mis-reading your post here or misunderstand you or something because it sounds like you're saying that if one pays tithes, then they are putting themselves under the law and as such will not get into heaven. Please set me right here because I don't want to misunderstand you and assume the wrong thing.

and I have no idea what you're talking about about the sun and God doesn't work that way. You lost me on that.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

sorry this thread went so far from the op into untenable statements.
the title attracted my attention, not that that is anything(after all, who am i ?) ,
but maybe the thread will get back on track or a new one started, for clarity and uplifting.

"why didn't christ invite doctors?" > he may, he did, he might.
although it is true, not many are in the ekklesia(body of christ).
exactly like other(people)s also: "not many rich, not many educated, not many high in society" as they would not. (follow Him).
might as well ask "why didn't christ invite preachers?" too. .. ... ... .. well, he did. most would not follow Him. most do not follow Him today. (some have been mentioned. they should be tested in prayer and by Scripture to verify if what they say and how they live is true, hoping for positive results. (don't forget to personally realize God's ability and plan to 'crucify the flesh' with all its emotions and lusts) )

shalom in christ jesus to all who love and follow the truth by grace as ABBA graciously provides LIFE!

 

[reba]

the topic is not prosperity teachers the topic is
Why didn't CHRIST invite doctors?

start another thread

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Are you sure you quoted the right thing, or even have the right person here? (my quote had nothing to do with healing, but with money).

I thought you were making an analogy about healing.
After all, that is what the thread is about.
And if you partner with false doctrine, then you should be ashamed.

 

[TheCurseoftheRodain]

the topic is not prosperity teachers the topic is
Why didn't CHRIST invite doctors?

start another thread

Hey Reba, I was just giving a lengthy response to someone who had attacked prosperity in this thread and then answering questions after that.

Back to the topic then.