Yes. It's a fairly plain teaching of the Scriptures. It's right there in chapter 14:14-20. You can read it for yourself. If you have another take on what event that particular Scripture is talking about, I'm all ears.
God bless,
Ted
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Why Does the Anticipation Of Jesus's Coming Cause Such Frustration In Those Anticipating Satan's Coming
- Thread starter Consecrated Life
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God bless,
Ted
Consecrated Life
Member
miamited ,
I do not read anything in the chapter/verses you cite that indicates that deals with the suffering of His own:
Rev 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16
And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17
And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
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I do not read anything in the chapter/verses you cite that indicates that deals with the suffering of His own:
Rev 14:14
And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
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HI Consecrated Life
As I recall, your initial question to me was:
If that's what you claim I believe, which I do, why would you expect me to show you passages that show those who belong to Christ will suffer? I don't get it. You seem to be making nonsensical arguments here. I agree that Jesus will come to take those who are his out of the earth, in preparation for the release of God's wrath upon those left behind. I think that's what I said, but in case I didn't, that is what I mean.
Furthermore, it is exactly what the passage I've been discussing says. Rev. 14:`4-20
God bless
Ted
So, you think being cast into the great winepress of God's wrath, isn't going to be a time of suffering for those who are so cast? And I have no idea where you ever got the idea that I was going to show you some passage of Scripture that 'deals with the suffering of His own'.And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20
And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
As I recall, your initial question to me was:
If that's what you claim I believe, which I do, why would you expect me to show you passages that show those who belong to Christ will suffer? I don't get it. You seem to be making nonsensical arguments here. I agree that Jesus will come to take those who are his out of the earth, in preparation for the release of God's wrath upon those left behind. I think that's what I said, but in case I didn't, that is what I mean.
Furthermore, it is exactly what the passage I've been discussing says. Rev. 14:`4-20
God bless
Ted
Consecrated Life
Member
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Let me ask another way , If relief from suffering is what you believe about Christ's #1 reason for gathering them up, I take it then you believe the #1 reason most people believe in the pre-trib rapture is out of fear of suffering?
Uhh, and you've gleaned that understanding from what?2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Let me ask another way , If relief from suffering is what you believe about Christ's #1 reason for gathering them up, I take it then you believe the #1 reason most people believe in the pre-trib rapture is out of fear of suffering?
First of all, you keep changing your words. I never said that relief from suffering was the #1 reason for Christ gathering up those who are his. What I said was that when Christ takes his to be with him, then the Father releases His wrath upon all those remaining. But you'll have to show me the post where I said that the #1 reason Christ takes his away is to avoid suffering. I actually believe that the believers will endure the suffering of the tribulation, but they won't endure the suffering of God's wrath. They are two separate events and times. I just agreed that his taking those who have trusted in him away, before God releases His wrath, will, by definition, mean that they won't be here to endure God's wrath.
Now, if you want to ask me, I'll tell you. No!!!!! I do not believe that Christ's #1 reason to gather his is that they avoid suffering. Christ's #1 reason for gathering those who are his, is because the Father sent him to do that and Jesus always does what His Father says.
Standard MAGA treatment is to make up some logical consequence that comes from some action, but really doesn't logically follow. It's just made up. As for the #1 reason that most believe in the pre-trib rapture, I don't know why they would. I think the Scriptures are pretty clear that the rapture will be sometime after the tribulation has started.
Now, you're free to make up any 'logical' consequence that you believe would follow from my words, but if you want the truth about it, then you'll have to ask me. You know what they say about assuming, right?
Honestly, you really should read the Scriptures. Most of the answers you're seeking are in there.
God bless,
Ted
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Hi Consecrated Life
Sorry, I missed the word 'paramount' in your explanation. I answered you incorrectly if the word 'paramount' is what you wanted to point out. However, it is still explained pretty clearly in the passage of the Revelation of Jesus Christ that I posted.
God bless,
Ted
Sorry, I missed the word 'paramount' in your explanation. I answered you incorrectly if the word 'paramount' is what you wanted to point out. However, it is still explained pretty clearly in the passage of the Revelation of Jesus Christ that I posted.
God bless,
Ted