Why go any further?

[Free]

To say that someone has a desire means they are lacking, incomplete. If I desire a book, then I do not have it.

I'd like to see you take that definition and make it apply to all cases of desire. I desire chocolate but in no way am I incomplete, I simply enjoy it.

Now, since we know that God is Love and exists as a Trinity, please show how he is lacking something which would necessitate the creation of man.

 

[lucasdwi]

I'd like to see you take that definition and make it apply to all cases of desire. I desire chocolate but in no way am I incomplete, I simply enjoy it.

I am talking more deeply; you are incomplete if you desire chocolate in that not all of your wants (desires) and/or needs are fulfilled. One is complete only when they are completely satisfied, and they cannot become more satisfied regardless of what some may think.

Now, since we know that God is Love and exists as a Trinity, please show how he is lacking something which would necessitate the creation of man.

I am not saying that he is lacking something that would then necessitate the creation of man; perhaps I need to be more clear (this is not the first time people have completely misunderstood my ideas), what I am saying is that the fact that he created man because of some desire to love and be loved, or what have you, means that he is lacking something. Is my point more clear?

 

[JoJo]

Perhaps God was lonely.

Perhaps because God is love and desires love....we bring Him joy.

Are you saying that God is incomplete? e.g Lonely or desires love.

Of course not. There is a difference between "desire" and "need." Does God need our love to be complete? Absolutely not. But our love brings Him joy. Do children need Christmas presents, though they bring joy? Do I need hot fudge sundaes, though they bring me joy? (maybe not the greatest examples, but off the top of my head)

Just because something brings joy doesn't mean it is necessary to make someone complete. The thought of him needing anything from us is ludicrous.

 

[lucasdwi]

Just because something brings joy doesn't mean it is necessary to make someone complete. The thought of him needing anything from us is ludicrous.

Let me be even clear, if someone, or something, wants something then they do not have it, they are incomplete in that sense.

 

[researcher]

Once God created Heaven, why create earth and humanity as we know it?

I heard an interesting interpretation once. Someone said that we are becoming the replacements for Satan and his fallen angels.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Rom 8:14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;

Luk 20:35 but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Lol. Who knows! ;) :D

 

[lucasdwi]

Lol. Who knows!

Do you not want to know?

 

[researcher]

Lol. Who knows!

Do you not want to know?

If it's important, the Holy Spirit will show what it is.

Either way I'm ok. ;)

 

[JoJo]

Just because something brings joy doesn't mean it is necessary to make someone complete. The thought of him needing anything from us is ludicrous.

Let me be even clear, if someone, or something, wants something then they do not have it, they are incomplete in that sense.

Let's say there is king who lives in a great castle full of splendor and beauty. Then a little girl walks by and places a pot of pink roses near the door. The king walks out and is filled with joy, not just at the girl's offering, but at the added beauty to his castle. The king may have had all he wanted, but the little girl still brought him joy.

 

[Benoni]

Once God created Heaven, why create earth and humanity as we know it?

You see God does not want robots so he casued the fall. Innocents was never God's plan; God wants overcomers like at the end of the Book; not naive, innocents like at the beginning. Mature Sons, just like Jesus.

 

[lucasdwi]

You see God does not want robots so he casued the fall. Innocents was never God's plan; God wants overcomers like at the end of the Book; not naive, innocents like at the beginning. Mature Sons, just like Jesus.

So God wanted to create humanity so that only a small percentage would know of him and believe in him and the rest he could send to Hell?
Again to say that God wants something is to say that he is incomplete.

 

[Benoni]

I think the incompleteness as you call it is your misunderstanding for God's plan of the ages. I do not believe in the Teutonic pagan word hell which is not in the original language of the Bible; the four words that were mistranslated into the pagan word hell simply speak of the place of the dead; except the word Tartarus which is only mentioned one time in the original language and that is speaking of the place where Satan will dwell. In fact ultimate God will save all, but in His timing not religions.

1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order:

It was God who ordained the fall, Adam had no choice.

You see God does not want robots so he casued the fall. Innocents was never God's plan; God wants overcomers like at the end of the Book; not naive, innocents like at the beginning. Mature Sons, just like Jesus.

So God wanted to create humanity so that only a small percentage would know of him and believe in him and the rest he could send to Hell?
Again to say that God wants something is to say that he is incomplete.

 

[lucasdwi]

I think the incompleteness as you call it is your misunderstanding for God's plan of the ages.

I am not claiming to understand God's plan, and I would say that anyone who claims that they do is arrogant.

So God wanted to create humanity so that only a small percentage would know of him and believe in him and the rest he could send to Hell?

Let me rephrase this...I did not mean to get into a argument about Hell, this is bound to the earthly realm, for now at least.
So God wanted to create humanity so that a small percentage would know he existed and would worship him, and the rest he would have persecuted in his name and/or they would not know of the glories of heaven?

 

[Benoni]

There should be argument on hell; there is a lot that should be debated on that subject. Why would God do such a terrible thing; I MEAN..... to “will†creation; then to turn around and “will†only a few to be saved; why does God not “will†salvation for all, seeing God created all? I mean if God can “will†eternal torture; why can God not will universal salvation.

I quoted you “1 Corin 15: 21: For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23: But every man in his own order†This verse declares the ultimate salvation for all people; but every man in his own order (it is God’s order that matters not tradition of religion) I understand it does not fit your preconceived bias but that is what the verse declares and there are many more verses with the same message.

Why would God make us King’s and Priest if all he had plan for the people we will be king’s and Priest too, is eternal torture. (Rev. 6:1), Acts 15:14-18)

I think the incompleteness as you call it is your misunderstanding for God's plan of the ages.

I am not claiming to understand God's plan, and I would say that anyone who claims that they do is arrogant.

So God wanted to create humanity so that only a small percentage would know of him and believe in him and the rest he could send to Hell?

Let me rephrase this...I did not mean to get into a argument about Hell, this is bound to the earthly realm, for now at least.
So God wanted to create humanity so that a small percentage would know he existed and would worship him, and the rest he would have persecuted in his name and/or they would not know of the glories of heaven?

 

[lucasdwi]

There should be argument on hell; there is a lot that should be debated on that subject.

The rest of your post is pertaining to hell as well.
This thread is not about hell, I agree with you completely though, I will start another thread with the topic of hell, this thread is talking about why create earth, not is there a hell. If you have anything to say about the thread topic please do, otherwise I look forward to talking with you in the other thread.

 

[Kyle]

Perhaps because God is love and desires love. When we choose to believe in Him and follow Him and love Him and love others, we bring Him joy.

:amen

This is a great answer!

I battled with this question for a long time. In the end, I came to a similar conclusion as Jo Jo.

 

[Benoni]

Your the one who brought up the subject of hell and I am not suppose to respond?

I have already posted in your other thread.

There should be argument on hell; there is a lot that should be debated on that subject.

The rest of your post is pertaining to hell as well.
This thread is not about hell, I agree with you completely though, I will start another thread with the topic of hell, this thread is talking about why create earth, not is there a hell. If you have anything to say about the thread topic please do, otherwise I look forward to talking with you in the other thread.

 

[lucasdwi]

Perhaps because God is love and desires love. When we choose to believe in Him and follow Him and love Him and love others, we bring Him joy.

:amen

This is a great answer

Did you read my response to JoJo's post?
To desire something implies a lack of that, if God is a perfect entity then how can Gad lack something?

Your the one who brought up the subject of hell and I am not suppose to respond? {/quote]
I do not mean to quell discussion, but when I brought up Hell I was using the idea of Hell to make a point, I do not believe there is a Hell either, I hope you took no offense it was my fault to use Hell in my point.

I have already posted in your other thread.

I am glad I will go check it out right now.

 

[Kyle]

Did you read my response to JoJo's post?
To desire something implies a lack of that, if God is a perfect entity then how can Gad lack something?

God had to have had some desire to create earth. If he didn't, he would not have created earth. However, according to you, God can't have any desires. So according to your logic, earth should have never been created. But it was. So God had to have some desire.

The only other option is that God didn't have a desire to create earth, but created it anyway. Which could of happened I suppose (after all, this is God we're talking about), but doesn't seem logical.

 

[lucasdwi]

God had to have had some desire to create earth. If he didn't, he would not have created earth. However, according to you, God can't have any desires. So according to your logic, earth should have never been created. But it was. So God had to have some desire.

Could the earth not have come from some other, less supernatural means?
Also, your last three sentences is the exact reason why this thread was created, why did he create the earth.

The only other option is that God didn't have a desire to create earth, but created it anyway.

You are creating a false dichotomy here, there are more than two options, one of them can be found if you combine the bold text.
And let us just say, for the purposes of the argument, (not that anyone here might believe this) but let us use this line of reasoning that you suggest, but with a slight twist on the end:
If God created earth, then God had to have had some desire to create earth. If he didn't, he would not have created earth. However, according to the fact (not me) that God is perfect, God can't have desires. So according to this logic, earth should have never been created by God. But it was, therefore we must ask ourselves very seriously, does God exist? Does the ending not make more logical sense then contradicting what God is?
Very good though, I like how you actually brought the argument against me instead of throwing scripture at me.

 

[JoJo]

Did you read my response to JoJo's post?
To desire something implies a lack of that, if God is a perfect entity then how can Gad lack something

Lucasdwi, did you read my responses to your posts? It appears my thoughts have not influenced your opinions, so I will now duck out of this conversation. :yes