Still, no answers given.
What do you mean by "properly?"
I asked a bunch of my questions first, before you asked yours, where's my answers?
I owe you nothing.
________________________________________________________________
The Reformed teaching on Sin and Evil, this here is what I believe as I stated before, most of it is taken from the works of Augustine...
From dictionary.com
pre·des·ti·na·tion:
1. The act of predestining or the condition of being predestined.
Theology.
2. The doctrine that God has foreordained all things, especially that God has elected certain souls to eternal salvation.
3. The divine decree foreordaining all souls to either salvation or damnation.
4. The act of God foreordaining all things gone before and to come.
Destiny; fate.
This word is properly used only with reference to God's plan or purpose of
salvation. The Greek word rendered "predestinate" is found only in these six
passages, Acts 4:28; Rom. 8:29, 30; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:5, 11; and in all of
them it has the same meaning. They teach that the eternal, sovereign,
immutable, and unconditional decree or "determinate purpose" of God governs all
events. This doctrine of predestination or election is beset with many
difficulties. It belongs to the "secret things" of God. But if we take the
revealed word of God as our guide, we must accept this doctrine with all its
mysteriousness, and settle all our questionings in the humble, devout
acknowledgment, "Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight." For the teaching of Scripture on this subject let the following passages be examined in addition to those referred to above; Gen. 21:12; Ex. 9:16; 33:19; Deut. 10:15; 32:8; Josh. 11:20; 1 Sam. 12:22; 2 Chr. 6:6; Ps. 33:12; 65:4; 78:68; 135:4; Isa. 41:1-10; Jer. 1:5; Mark 13:20; Luke 22:22; John 6:37; 15:16; 17:2, 6, 9; Acts 2:28; 3:18; 4:28; 13:48; 17:26; Rom. 9:11, 18, 21; 11:5; Eph. 3:11; 1 Thess. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2; 1 Pet. 1:2.
e·lec·tion:
1. The act or power of electing.
2. The fact of being elected.
3. The right or ability to make a choice. See Synonyms at choice.
4. Predestined salvation, especially as conceived by Calvinists.
a vote to select the winner of a position or political office; "the results of the election will be announced tonight" 2: the act of selecting someone or something; the exercise of deliberate choice; "her election of medicine as a profession" 3: the status or fact of being elected; "they celebrated his election" 4: the predestination of some individuals as objects of divine mercy (especially as conceived by Calvinists)
Since the op started with Loraine Boettner work "Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" I'll continue by quoting from it. [FROM THIS POINT ON, IT IS THE WORK OF LORAINE BOETTNER, NOT MY WORK, but I agree with.]
__________________________________________________________________
A statement of the doctine: This doctrine of Predestination represents the purpose of God as absolute and unconditional, independent of the whole finite creation, and as originating solely in the eternal counsel of His will. God is seen as the great and mighty King who has appointed the course of nature and who directs the course of history even down to its minutest details. His decree is eternal, unchangeable, holy, wise, and sovereign. It extends not merely to the course of the physical world but to every event in human history from the creation to the judgment, and includes all the activities of saints and angels in heaven and of reprobates and demons in hell. It embraces the whole scope of creaturely existence, through time and eternity, comprehending at once all things that ever were or will be in their causes, conditions, successions, and relations. Chpt. 2
Foreordination in Scripture
Acts 4:27, 28: For of a truth in this city against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass.
Ephesians 1:5: Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Ephesians 1:11: In whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will.
Romans 8:29, 30: For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 2:7: But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory.
Acts 2:23: Him (Jesus) being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hands of lawless men did crucify and slay.
Acts 13:48: And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Ephesians 2:10: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
Romans 9:23: That He might make known the riches of His glory upon the vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory.
Psalm 139:16: Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
Chpt. 3
1. God's plan is eternal:
2 Timothy 1:9: (It is God) who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal.
Psalm 33:11: The counsel of Jehovah standeth fast for ever, The thoughts of His heart to all generations.
Isaiah 37:26: Hast thou not heard how I have done it long ago, and formed it of ancient times?
Isaiah 46:9, 10: I am God and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done.
2 Thessalonians 2:13: God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
Matthew 25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20: (Christ) who (as a sacrifice for sin) was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world.
Jeremiah 31:3: Jehovah appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love.
Acts 15:18: Saith the Lord, who maketh these things known from of old.
Psalm 139:16: Thine eves did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
2. God's plan is unchangeable:
James 1:17: Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning.
Isaiah 14:24: Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand.
Isaiah 46:10, 11: My counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure: . . . yea, I have spoken, and I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed I will also do it.
Numbers 23:19: God is not a man, that He should lie, Neither the son of man, that He should repent; Hath He said, and shall He not do it; Or hath He spoken, and shall He not make It good?
Malachi 3:6: I, Jehovah, change not; therefore, ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
3. The divine plan Includes the future acts of men:
Daniel 2:28: But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and He hath made known to the King Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.
John 6:64: For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray Him.
Matthew 20:18, 19: Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests and scribes; and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him unto the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify ; and the third day He shall be raised up.
(All the Scripture prophecies which are predictions of future events come under this heading. See especially: Micah 5:2; Cp. with Matthew 2:5, 6 and Luke 2:1-7; Psalm 22:18, Cp. John 19:24; Psalm 69:21, Cp. John 19:29; Zechariah 12:10, Cp. John 19:37; Mark 14:30; Zechariah 11:12, 13, Cp. Matthew 27:9, 10; Psalm 34:19, 20, Cp. John 19:33, 36.)
4. The divine plan Includes the fortuitous events or chance happenings:
Proverbs 16:33: The lot is cast Into the lap; But the whole disposing thereof Is of Jehovah.
Jonah 1:7: So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah.
Acts 1:24, 26: And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show of these two the one whom thou has chosen . . . And they cast lots for them; and the lot fell on Matthias.
Job 36:32: He covereth His hands with the lightning, And giveth it a charge that it strike the mark.
1 Kings 22:28, 34: And Micaiah said, If thou (Ahab) return at all in peace, Jehovah hath not spoken by me . . . And a certain man drew his bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the armor.
Job 5:6: For affliction cometh not forth from the dust; Neither doth trouble spring out of the ground.
Mark 14:30: And Jesus said unto him (Peter), Verily I say unto thee, that thou, today, even this night. before the cock crow twice shall deny me thrice.
(Cp. Genesis 37:28 and 45:5; Cp. 1 Samuel 9:15,16 and 9:5-10.)
5. Some events are recorded as fixed or inevitably certain:
Luke 22:22: For the Son of man indeed goeth, as it hath been determined; but woe unto that man through whom He is betrayed.
John 8:20: These words spake He in the treasury, as He taught in the temple; and no man took Him; because His hour was not yet come.
Matthew 24:36: But of that day and hour (the end of the world) knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Genesis 41:32: And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharoah, it is because the thing is established of God, and He will shortly bring it to pass.
Habakkuk 2:3: For the vision is yet for the appointed time, and it hasteneth toward the end, and shall not lie; though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not delay.
Luke 21:24: And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Jeremiah 15:2: And it shall come to pass when they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them. Thus saith Jehovah: Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for famine, to the famine; and such as are for captivity, to captivity.
Job 14:5: Seeing that his days are determined, And the number of his months is with thee, And thou has appointed bounds that he cannot pass.
Jeremiah 27:7: And all nations shall serve him (Nebucbadnezzar), and his son, and his son's son, until the time of his own land come; and then many nations and great kings shall make him their bondman.
6. Even the sinful acts of men are included in the plan and are overruled for good.
Genesis 50:20: As for you, ye meant evil against me (Joseph), but God meant it for good.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I am Jehovah that doeth all these things.
Amos 3:6: Shall evil befall a city and Jehovah hath not done it?
Acts 3:18: The things which God foreshowed by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He thus fulfilled.
Matthew 21:42: The stone which the builders rejected, the same was made the head of the corner.
Romans 8:28: To them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to His purpose.
Chpt. 4
Sovereignty of God
Daniel 4:35: He doeth according to His will In the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou?
Jeremiah 32:17: Ah Lord Jehovah! behold thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thine outstretched arm; and there is nothing too hard for thee.
Matthew 28:18: All authority bath been given unto me (Christ) in heaven and on earth.
Ephesians 1:22: And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church.
Ephesians 1:11: In whom we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will.
Isaiah 14:24, 27: Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass . . . . For Jehovah of hosts hath purposed, and who shall annul it? and His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
Isaiah 46:9, 10, 11: Remember the former things of old; for I am God. and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure . . . . yea, I have spoken; I will also bring It to pass; I have purposed, I will also do it.
Genesis 18:14: Is anything too hard for Jehovah?
Job 42:2: I know that thou canst do all things, And that no purpose of thine can be restrained.
Psalm 115:3: Our God is in the heavens. He hath done whatsoever He pleased.
Psalm 135:6: Whatsoever Jehovah pleased, that hath He done. In heaven, in earth, in the seas, and in all deeps.
Isaiah 55:11: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Romans 9:20, 21: Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Chpt. 5
Providence of God
That this is the Scripture doctrine of Providence is so plain that it is admitted by many whose philosophical views lead them to reject it for themselves. We shall now present a summary of Scripture proof, showing that all events have a divinely appointed place and purpose, that God's providence is universal, and that He thus secures the complete fulfillment of His plans. God's providential control extends over:
(a) Nature or the physical world. "Jehovah doeth His will in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet," Nahum 1:3. "Only in the land of Goshen where the children of Israel were, there was no hail," Exodus 9:26. "He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust," Matthew 5:45. The famine in Egypt appeared to men to be only the result of natural causes; yet Joseph could say, "The thing is established of God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." Genesis 41: 32. "And I also have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months before the harvest; and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city," Amos 4:7. "He gave you from heaven rains and fruitful seasons, filling your heart with food and gladness," Acts 14:17. "Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?" Isaiah 40:12.
(b) The animal creation. "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny and not one of them shall fall to the ground without your Father," Matthew 10:29. "Behold the birds of the heavens, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them," Matthew 6:26. "My God hath sent His angel and hath shut the lions' months, that they have not hurt me," Daniel 6:22. "The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God," Psalm 104:21. "Thus God hath taken away the cattle of your father (Laban) and given them to me" (Jacob), Genesis 31:9.
(c) Nations. (Nebuchadnezzar's humiliation was) "to the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the lowest of men," Daniel 4:17. "Behold, the nations are as a drop in the bucket, and are accounted as the small dust of the balance; behold, He taketh up the isles as a very little thing," Isaiah 40-15. "Let them say among the nation Jehovah reigneth," 1 Chronicles 16:31. "For God Is the King of all the earth," Psalm 47:7. "He changeth the times and the seasons; He removeth kings, and setteth up kings," Daniel 2:21. "Jehovah bringeth the counsel of the nations to naught; He maketh the thoughts of the people to be of none effect," Psalm 33:10. "And Jehovah gave them rest round about .... Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hands," Joshua 21:44. "And the children of Israel did that which was evil in the sight of Jehovah; and Jehovah delivered them into the hands of Midian seven years," Judges 6:1. 'Shall evil befall a city, and Jehovah hath not done it?" Amos 3:6. "For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, that march through the breadth of the earth, to possess dwelling places that are not theirs," Habakkuk 1:6.
(d) Individual men. "The king's heart is in the hand of Jehovah as the watercourses; He turneth it whithersoever He will," Proverbs 21:1. "A man's goings are established of Jehovah," Psalm 37:23. "A man's heart deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps," Proverbs 16:9. "For we ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall both live, and do this or that," James 4:15. "Of Him, and through Him, and unto Him are all things," Romans 11:36. "Who maketh thee to differ? And what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" 1 Corinthians 4:7. "The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him, And delivereth them," Psalm 34:7. "If it be so our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace; and He will deliver us out of thy hand,O king," Daniel 3:17. "Jehovah is on my side; I shall not fear; What can man do unto me?" Psalm 118:6. But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay and thou our potter; and we are the work of thy hands," Isaiah 64:8. "And the hand of our God was upon us, and He delivered us (the returning exiles) from the hand of the enemy and the lier-in-wait by the way," Ezra 8:31. "And God brought their counsel to naught," Nehemiah 4:15. "But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or bent; that ye way know how Jehovah doth make a distinction between the Egyptians and Israel," Exodus 11:7. "And the Lord said unto Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak and hold not thy peace; for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to harm thee," Acts 18:9.
(e) The free acts of men. "It is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for His good pleasure," Philippians 2:13. "And Jehovah gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked." Exodus 12:36. "And the king (of Persia, Artaxerxes) granted him (Ezra) all his request, according to the hand of Jehovah his God upon him," Ezra 7:6. "For Jehovah had made them joyful, and had turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God" (rebuilding the temple), Ezra 6:22. "And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them," Ezekiel 36:27.
(f) The sinful acts of men. "For of a truth in this city against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, and the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass," Acts 4:27, 28. "Jesus answered him (Pilate), Thou wouldst have no power against me, except it were given thee from above," John 19:11. (David, rebuking Abishai, in regard to Shimei) "Because he curseth, and Jehovah bath said, Curse David.... Let him alone, and let him curse; for Jehovah bath bidden him" II Sam. 16:10, 11. "Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee; and the residue of wrath shalt thou gird upon thee' (or restrain), Ps. 76:10. "And I, behold I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians and they shall go in (the Red Sea) after them; and I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, and upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen," Ex. 14:17. (g) To the fortuitous events or "chance happenings. "See section 4 (Ch. III)."
Chpt. 6
Foreknowledge of God
Foreknowledge must not be confused with foreordination. Foreknowledge presupposes foreordination, but is not itself foreordination. The actions of free agents do not take place because they are foreseen, but they are foreseen because they are certain to take place. Hence Strong says, "Logically, though not chronologically, decree comes before foreknowledge. When I say, 'I know what I will do,' it is evident that I have determined already, and that my knowledge does not precede determination, but follows it and is based upon it."
Since God's foreknowledge is complete, He knows the destiny of every person, not merely before the person has made his choice in this life, but from eternity. And since He knows their destiny before they are created, and then proceeds to create, it is plain that the saved and the lost alike fulfill His plan for them; for if He did not plan that any particular ones should be lost, He could at least refrain from creating them.
______________________________________________________________________
Quote:
First: 1) All things that God created are good; 2) evil is not good; 3) therefore, evil was not created by God.
Second: 1) God created every thing; 2) God did not create evil; 3) therefore, evil is not a thing.
Augustine wrote: "Where is evil then, and whence, and how crept it in hither? What is its root, and what its seed? Or hath it no being?"
"Evil has no positive nature; but the loss of good has received the name 'evil."
Good has substantial being, evil is the lack of substance, a deprivation of good. One author describes evil/sin as a "moral hole."
Augustine concluded:"...that evil could not be chosen because there is no evil thing to choose." Evil is the lack of goodness.
A Reformed writer comments: There's a sound reason why God has allowed evil. It doesn't conflict with His goodness. God is neither the author of evil, nor its helpless victim. Rather, precisely because of His goodness He chooses to co-exist with evil for a time.
Reformed view: Traditionally, God has been said to avoid culpability by ordaining evil to come to exist through secondary causes of free moral agents..... and
In point of fact, though, the Bible simply doesn't tell us how evil came to exist in way that prevented God from contradicting his own character.
I suspect that there are at least two sources of our difficulty with the question: our conception of the proper attribution of guilt; and our conception of the character of God. On the first point, most people assume that God is guilty of sin if he creates evil. Most people also assume that God is guilty of sin if he makes it certain that a person must sin. But I don't think either of these assumptions can be proven from Scripture. Unless those connections can be established, there is no basis for accusing God of sin even if we grant that God created sin and rendered it certain that people would sin.
This brings me to the point about God's character. If we define sin and evil as that which is contrary to God's character, then it is impossible for God to sin. By definition, whatever God does is not sinful or evil. Since God cannot sin, then if God created evil, it was not sinful or evil for God to create evil. Whatever he does is right, so there is no problem. If God created evil and/or made it certain that man would sin, and if we think these actions were evil, then we are simply wrong in our assessment of the evil of these actions. There is no contradiction because by assigning the action to God we forfeit the right to call it evil.
Anyway, this doesn't satisfy atheists because they want to be able to be God's judge, they demand the authority to accuse him. Of course, they don't have that authority, so their demand is vain.
http://www.thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/99779.qna/category/th/page/questions/site/iiim
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Can anyone supply, here it is a funny word for some of you, SCRIPTURES [THAT MEANS QUOTATIONS FROM HE BIBLE] that deny God ordains all things? That He doesn't know the end from the beginning?
Still waiting for my answers, simply denying the Scriptures I quoted doesn't get rid of them.
JM
What do you mean by "properly?"
I asked a bunch of my questions first, before you asked yours, where's my answers?
I owe you nothing.
________________________________________________________________
The Reformed teaching on Sin and Evil, this here is what I believe as I stated before, most of it is taken from the works of Augustine...
From dictionary.com
pre·des·ti·na·tion:
1. The act of predestining or the condition of being predestined.
Theology.
2. The doctrine that God has foreordained all things, especially that God has elected certain souls to eternal salvation.
3. The divine decree foreordaining all souls to either salvation or damnation.
4. The act of God foreordaining all things gone before and to come.
Destiny; fate.
This word is properly used only with reference to God's plan or purpose of
salvation. The Greek word rendered "predestinate" is found only in these six
passages, Acts 4:28; Rom. 8:29, 30; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:5, 11; and in all of
them it has the same meaning. They teach that the eternal, sovereign,
immutable, and unconditional decree or "determinate purpose" of God governs all
events. This doctrine of predestination or election is beset with many
difficulties. It belongs to the "secret things" of God. But if we take the
revealed word of God as our guide, we must accept this doctrine with all its
mysteriousness, and settle all our questionings in the humble, devout
acknowledgment, "Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight." For the teaching of Scripture on this subject let the following passages be examined in addition to those referred to above; Gen. 21:12; Ex. 9:16; 33:19; Deut. 10:15; 32:8; Josh. 11:20; 1 Sam. 12:22; 2 Chr. 6:6; Ps. 33:12; 65:4; 78:68; 135:4; Isa. 41:1-10; Jer. 1:5; Mark 13:20; Luke 22:22; John 6:37; 15:16; 17:2, 6, 9; Acts 2:28; 3:18; 4:28; 13:48; 17:26; Rom. 9:11, 18, 21; 11:5; Eph. 3:11; 1 Thess. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2; 1 Pet. 1:2.
e·lec·tion:
1. The act or power of electing.
2. The fact of being elected.
3. The right or ability to make a choice. See Synonyms at choice.
4. Predestined salvation, especially as conceived by Calvinists.
a vote to select the winner of a position or political office; "the results of the election will be announced tonight" 2: the act of selecting someone or something; the exercise of deliberate choice; "her election of medicine as a profession" 3: the status or fact of being elected; "they celebrated his election" 4: the predestination of some individuals as objects of divine mercy (especially as conceived by Calvinists)
Since the op started with Loraine Boettner work "Reformed Doctrine of Predestination" I'll continue by quoting from it. [FROM THIS POINT ON, IT IS THE WORK OF LORAINE BOETTNER, NOT MY WORK, but I agree with.]
__________________________________________________________________
A statement of the doctine: This doctrine of Predestination represents the purpose of God as absolute and unconditional, independent of the whole finite creation, and as originating solely in the eternal counsel of His will. God is seen as the great and mighty King who has appointed the course of nature and who directs the course of history even down to its minutest details. His decree is eternal, unchangeable, holy, wise, and sovereign. It extends not merely to the course of the physical world but to every event in human history from the creation to the judgment, and includes all the activities of saints and angels in heaven and of reprobates and demons in hell. It embraces the whole scope of creaturely existence, through time and eternity, comprehending at once all things that ever were or will be in their causes, conditions, successions, and relations. Chpt. 2
Foreordination in Scripture
Acts 4:27, 28: For of a truth in this city against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass.
Ephesians 1:5: Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Ephesians 1:11: In whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will.
Romans 8:29, 30: For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 2:7: But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory.
Acts 2:23: Him (Jesus) being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hands of lawless men did crucify and slay.
Acts 13:48: And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Ephesians 2:10: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
Romans 9:23: That He might make known the riches of His glory upon the vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory.
Psalm 139:16: Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
Chpt. 3
1. God's plan is eternal:
2 Timothy 1:9: (It is God) who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal.
Psalm 33:11: The counsel of Jehovah standeth fast for ever, The thoughts of His heart to all generations.
Isaiah 37:26: Hast thou not heard how I have done it long ago, and formed it of ancient times?
Isaiah 46:9, 10: I am God and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done.
2 Thessalonians 2:13: God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
Matthew 25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
1 Peter 1:20: (Christ) who (as a sacrifice for sin) was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world.
Jeremiah 31:3: Jehovah appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love.
Acts 15:18: Saith the Lord, who maketh these things known from of old.
Psalm 139:16: Thine eves did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.
2. God's plan is unchangeable:
James 1:17: Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom can be no variation, neither shadow that is cast by turning.
Isaiah 14:24: Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand.
Isaiah 46:10, 11: My counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure: . . . yea, I have spoken, and I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed I will also do it.
Numbers 23:19: God is not a man, that He should lie, Neither the son of man, that He should repent; Hath He said, and shall He not do it; Or hath He spoken, and shall He not make It good?
Malachi 3:6: I, Jehovah, change not; therefore, ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
3. The divine plan Includes the future acts of men:
Daniel 2:28: But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and He hath made known to the King Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.
John 6:64: For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray Him.
Matthew 20:18, 19: Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests and scribes; and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him unto the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify ; and the third day He shall be raised up.
(All the Scripture prophecies which are predictions of future events come under this heading. See especially: Micah 5:2; Cp. with Matthew 2:5, 6 and Luke 2:1-7; Psalm 22:18, Cp. John 19:24; Psalm 69:21, Cp. John 19:29; Zechariah 12:10, Cp. John 19:37; Mark 14:30; Zechariah 11:12, 13, Cp. Matthew 27:9, 10; Psalm 34:19, 20, Cp. John 19:33, 36.)
4. The divine plan Includes the fortuitous events or chance happenings:
Proverbs 16:33: The lot is cast Into the lap; But the whole disposing thereof Is of Jehovah.
Jonah 1:7: So they cast lots, and the lot fell on Jonah.
Acts 1:24, 26: And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show of these two the one whom thou has chosen . . . And they cast lots for them; and the lot fell on Matthias.
Job 36:32: He covereth His hands with the lightning, And giveth it a charge that it strike the mark.
1 Kings 22:28, 34: And Micaiah said, If thou (Ahab) return at all in peace, Jehovah hath not spoken by me . . . And a certain man drew his bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the armor.
Job 5:6: For affliction cometh not forth from the dust; Neither doth trouble spring out of the ground.
Mark 14:30: And Jesus said unto him (Peter), Verily I say unto thee, that thou, today, even this night. before the cock crow twice shall deny me thrice.
(Cp. Genesis 37:28 and 45:5; Cp. 1 Samuel 9:15,16 and 9:5-10.)
5. Some events are recorded as fixed or inevitably certain:
Luke 22:22: For the Son of man indeed goeth, as it hath been determined; but woe unto that man through whom He is betrayed.
John 8:20: These words spake He in the treasury, as He taught in the temple; and no man took Him; because His hour was not yet come.
Matthew 24:36: But of that day and hour (the end of the world) knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Genesis 41:32: And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharoah, it is because the thing is established of God, and He will shortly bring it to pass.
Habakkuk 2:3: For the vision is yet for the appointed time, and it hasteneth toward the end, and shall not lie; though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not delay.
Luke 21:24: And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Jeremiah 15:2: And it shall come to pass when they say unto thee, Whither shall we go forth? then thou shalt tell them. Thus saith Jehovah: Such as are for death, to death; and such as are for the sword, to the sword; and such as are for famine, to the famine; and such as are for captivity, to captivity.
Job 14:5: Seeing that his days are determined, And the number of his months is with thee, And thou has appointed bounds that he cannot pass.
Jeremiah 27:7: And all nations shall serve him (Nebucbadnezzar), and his son, and his son's son, until the time of his own land come; and then many nations and great kings shall make him their bondman.
6. Even the sinful acts of men are included in the plan and are overruled for good.
Genesis 50:20: As for you, ye meant evil against me (Joseph), but God meant it for good.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I am Jehovah that doeth all these things.
Amos 3:6: Shall evil befall a city and Jehovah hath not done it?
Acts 3:18: The things which God foreshowed by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He thus fulfilled.
Matthew 21:42: The stone which the builders rejected, the same was made the head of the corner.
Romans 8:28: To them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to His purpose.
Chpt. 4
Sovereignty of God
Daniel 4:35: He doeth according to His will In the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou?
Jeremiah 32:17: Ah Lord Jehovah! behold thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thine outstretched arm; and there is nothing too hard for thee.
Matthew 28:18: All authority bath been given unto me (Christ) in heaven and on earth.
Ephesians 1:22: And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church.
Ephesians 1:11: In whom we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will.
Isaiah 14:24, 27: Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass . . . . For Jehovah of hosts hath purposed, and who shall annul it? and His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
Isaiah 46:9, 10, 11: Remember the former things of old; for I am God. and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure . . . . yea, I have spoken; I will also bring It to pass; I have purposed, I will also do it.
Genesis 18:14: Is anything too hard for Jehovah?
Job 42:2: I know that thou canst do all things, And that no purpose of thine can be restrained.
Psalm 115:3: Our God is in the heavens. He hath done whatsoever He pleased.
Psalm 135:6: Whatsoever Jehovah pleased, that hath He done. In heaven, in earth, in the seas, and in all deeps.
Isaiah 55:11: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Romans 9:20, 21: Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
Chpt. 5
Providence of God
That this is the Scripture doctrine of Providence is so plain that it is admitted by many whose philosophical views lead them to reject it for themselves. We shall now present a summary of Scripture proof, showing that all events have a divinely appointed place and purpose, that God's providence is universal, and that He thus secures the complete fulfillment of His plans. God's providential control extends over:
(a) Nature or the physical world. "Jehovah doeth His will in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet," Nahum 1:3. "Only in the land of Goshen where the children of Israel were, there was no hail," Exodus 9:26. "He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust," Matthew 5:45. The famine in Egypt appeared to men to be only the result of natural causes; yet Joseph could say, "The thing is established of God, and God will shortly bring it to pass." Genesis 41: 32. "And I also have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months before the harvest; and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city," Amos 4:7. "He gave you from heaven rains and fruitful seasons, filling your heart with food and gladness," Acts 14:17. "Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?" Isaiah 40:12.
(b) The animal creation. "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny and not one of them shall fall to the ground without your Father," Matthew 10:29. "Behold the birds of the heavens, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them," Matthew 6:26. "My God hath sent His angel and hath shut the lions' months, that they have not hurt me," Daniel 6:22. "The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God," Psalm 104:21. "Thus God hath taken away the cattle of your father (Laban) and given them to me" (Jacob), Genesis 31:9.
(c) Nations. (Nebuchadnezzar's humiliation was) "to the intent that the living may know that the Most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the lowest of men," Daniel 4:17. "Behold, the nations are as a drop in the bucket, and are accounted as the small dust of the balance; behold, He taketh up the isles as a very little thing," Isaiah 40-15. "Let them say among the nation Jehovah reigneth," 1 Chronicles 16:31. "For God Is the King of all the earth," Psalm 47:7. "He changeth the times and the seasons; He removeth kings, and setteth up kings," Daniel 2:21. "Jehovah bringeth the counsel of the nations to naught; He maketh the thoughts of the people to be of none effect," Psalm 33:10. "And Jehovah gave them rest round about .... Jehovah delivered all their enemies into their hands," Joshua 21:44. "And the children of Israel did that which was evil in the sight of Jehovah; and Jehovah delivered them into the hands of Midian seven years," Judges 6:1. 'Shall evil befall a city, and Jehovah hath not done it?" Amos 3:6. "For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, that march through the breadth of the earth, to possess dwelling places that are not theirs," Habakkuk 1:6.
(d) Individual men. "The king's heart is in the hand of Jehovah as the watercourses; He turneth it whithersoever He will," Proverbs 21:1. "A man's goings are established of Jehovah," Psalm 37:23. "A man's heart deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps," Proverbs 16:9. "For we ought to say, if the Lord will, we shall both live, and do this or that," James 4:15. "Of Him, and through Him, and unto Him are all things," Romans 11:36. "Who maketh thee to differ? And what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" 1 Corinthians 4:7. "The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear Him, And delivereth them," Psalm 34:7. "If it be so our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace; and He will deliver us out of thy hand,O king," Daniel 3:17. "Jehovah is on my side; I shall not fear; What can man do unto me?" Psalm 118:6. But now, O Jehovah, thou art our Father; we are the clay and thou our potter; and we are the work of thy hands," Isaiah 64:8. "And the hand of our God was upon us, and He delivered us (the returning exiles) from the hand of the enemy and the lier-in-wait by the way," Ezra 8:31. "And God brought their counsel to naught," Nehemiah 4:15. "But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or bent; that ye way know how Jehovah doth make a distinction between the Egyptians and Israel," Exodus 11:7. "And the Lord said unto Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak and hold not thy peace; for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to harm thee," Acts 18:9.
(e) The free acts of men. "It is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for His good pleasure," Philippians 2:13. "And Jehovah gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked." Exodus 12:36. "And the king (of Persia, Artaxerxes) granted him (Ezra) all his request, according to the hand of Jehovah his God upon him," Ezra 7:6. "For Jehovah had made them joyful, and had turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God" (rebuilding the temple), Ezra 6:22. "And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them," Ezekiel 36:27.
(f) The sinful acts of men. "For of a truth in this city against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, and the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass," Acts 4:27, 28. "Jesus answered him (Pilate), Thou wouldst have no power against me, except it were given thee from above," John 19:11. (David, rebuking Abishai, in regard to Shimei) "Because he curseth, and Jehovah bath said, Curse David.... Let him alone, and let him curse; for Jehovah bath bidden him" II Sam. 16:10, 11. "Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee; and the residue of wrath shalt thou gird upon thee' (or restrain), Ps. 76:10. "And I, behold I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians and they shall go in (the Red Sea) after them; and I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host, and upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen," Ex. 14:17. (g) To the fortuitous events or "chance happenings. "See section 4 (Ch. III)."
Chpt. 6
Foreknowledge of God
Foreknowledge must not be confused with foreordination. Foreknowledge presupposes foreordination, but is not itself foreordination. The actions of free agents do not take place because they are foreseen, but they are foreseen because they are certain to take place. Hence Strong says, "Logically, though not chronologically, decree comes before foreknowledge. When I say, 'I know what I will do,' it is evident that I have determined already, and that my knowledge does not precede determination, but follows it and is based upon it."
Since God's foreknowledge is complete, He knows the destiny of every person, not merely before the person has made his choice in this life, but from eternity. And since He knows their destiny before they are created, and then proceeds to create, it is plain that the saved and the lost alike fulfill His plan for them; for if He did not plan that any particular ones should be lost, He could at least refrain from creating them.
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Quote:
First: 1) All things that God created are good; 2) evil is not good; 3) therefore, evil was not created by God.
Second: 1) God created every thing; 2) God did not create evil; 3) therefore, evil is not a thing.
Augustine wrote: "Where is evil then, and whence, and how crept it in hither? What is its root, and what its seed? Or hath it no being?"
"Evil has no positive nature; but the loss of good has received the name 'evil."
Good has substantial being, evil is the lack of substance, a deprivation of good. One author describes evil/sin as a "moral hole."
Augustine concluded:"...that evil could not be chosen because there is no evil thing to choose." Evil is the lack of goodness.
A Reformed writer comments: There's a sound reason why God has allowed evil. It doesn't conflict with His goodness. God is neither the author of evil, nor its helpless victim. Rather, precisely because of His goodness He chooses to co-exist with evil for a time.
Reformed view: Traditionally, God has been said to avoid culpability by ordaining evil to come to exist through secondary causes of free moral agents..... and
In point of fact, though, the Bible simply doesn't tell us how evil came to exist in way that prevented God from contradicting his own character.
I suspect that there are at least two sources of our difficulty with the question: our conception of the proper attribution of guilt; and our conception of the character of God. On the first point, most people assume that God is guilty of sin if he creates evil. Most people also assume that God is guilty of sin if he makes it certain that a person must sin. But I don't think either of these assumptions can be proven from Scripture. Unless those connections can be established, there is no basis for accusing God of sin even if we grant that God created sin and rendered it certain that people would sin.
This brings me to the point about God's character. If we define sin and evil as that which is contrary to God's character, then it is impossible for God to sin. By definition, whatever God does is not sinful or evil. Since God cannot sin, then if God created evil, it was not sinful or evil for God to create evil. Whatever he does is right, so there is no problem. If God created evil and/or made it certain that man would sin, and if we think these actions were evil, then we are simply wrong in our assessment of the evil of these actions. There is no contradiction because by assigning the action to God we forfeit the right to call it evil.
Anyway, this doesn't satisfy atheists because they want to be able to be God's judge, they demand the authority to accuse him. Of course, they don't have that authority, so their demand is vain.
http://www.thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/99779.qna/category/th/page/questions/site/iiim
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Can anyone supply, here it is a funny word for some of you, SCRIPTURES [THAT MEANS QUOTATIONS FROM HE BIBLE] that deny God ordains all things? That He doesn't know the end from the beginning?
Still waiting for my answers, simply denying the Scriptures I quoted doesn't get rid of them.
JM
