Why we chose God

[farouk]

Grazer: Don't forget, though, that unbelievers are 'dead in tresspasses and sins', as Ephesians 2.1 says.

 

[Grazer]

I think this is one of those things that we may not understand but it is reasonable to assume that somehow it must be just, for God is just. I don't get it about the why God would cause two she bears to come out of the woods and tare forty two children to death for mocking the bald priest in 2 Kings. That seems harsh. BUT! I accept in good faith that God indeed had a very very good reason for that and stand down to his divinity, rather than tread into the dangerous area of questioning The Almighty. It would be obvious if God were to explain it to us, but all things are not for us to know, so I try not to let such things bother me and continue in faith.

But as you've probably figured out about me, I'll only hold to the "God had his reasons" explanation for so long before my mind goes "sorry this explanation isn't good enough" It's not something that will rock my faith but ignoring doubts will. This is one such occasion.

 

[Grazer]

Are you contradicting yourself? You seem to sort of say that you don't have faith, yet you do have faith? Even you sig line sort of says the same thing.

Not really. Faith, knowledge and understanding are all interconnected in many ways to me. The more I know about someone, the more my faith in them increases (or decreases depending on what the knowledge is) Faith is in response to the truth and reality of God.

Hebrews 11:6 NIV

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

The more I know and understand the above, the more my faith in God increases and is strengthened.

I did a post a long while ago about what faith is. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Sparkey]

Interesting views! Well, we are talking about a topic to which there would be debate among great theologians!!

Good thing that Jesus is ready to reveal the hidden things, right? Jer 33:3, 1Cor 2:6-8. Christians are the stewards of the mysteries of God (1Cor 4:1).

I've "snipped" out part of the 1st Post in this thread:

I find myself desperately looking for the words to describe how amazing God's influence truly is to those who have never experienced it. The thing is, I don't have one of these amazing miracle stories to tell or anything fancy to open up skeptical ears.

Lne17: Others have suggested that you could look toward what you have witnessed, the testimony of what God has done in your life. It might not have the drama that we see in the world shaking events of the Bible, but as we ask, we can expect the Lord to guide us in the same way He guides all His children.

We are like the workers in a field. It's the land that is producing, the hired-hands are doing the physical work, and the 'glory' of the farm is accounted to the owner of the field.

My suggestion? It's nothing you don't already know, but by way of encouragement I'd just like to say, "be faithful in small things; don't grow tired of doing well." The Holy Spirit is with you even if your name isn't Moses. To me, it seems very strange how little things can be magnified so easily. Consider your choice of title to this thread (for instance), "Why we chose God." A small thing like including a word like "choose" or "chose" (past tense) in the title has opened the thread to thoughts contemplated by great theologians. The "fields" of unsaved that you consider are ripe and ready for harvest. The Lord has brought them to this point to show His glory.

 

[Grazer]

I believe that you're contradicting Ephesians 2:8 with this position. Faith is a gift from God according to Ephesians 2:8

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God./ (NIV)

I don't read that verse as saying faith is the gift, being saved is. I've done nothing to deserve or earn that. But also, how am I contradicting Hebrews 11:6 with my stance?

 

[Grazer]

Found my post but not on here so I've copied and pasted it below;

living, the unexamined faith is not worth believing
Evidence2Hope
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10-14-12 04:24 AM

The concept of faith is on itself incomplete, we have faith in something or someone. In this case, it's someone.

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him" - Hebrews 11:6

The greek word rendered for faith in the New Testament is pistis, it's definitions include;

faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

Additional definitions include be persuaded, come to trust

If we think about having faith in a person, we don't put our trust in people without knowledge and experience of them. In England, we used to have faith in the banking system, we trusted the bankers. Once evidence came to light that they couldn't be trusted, we lost faith in them. Faith and evidence are inter-connected. The more we know about someone, the more our faith increases or decreases.

The latin for faith is fides, one definition is informal documentary evidence showing that a person is what they claim to be This is a very apt definition of the Bible. If God wanted us to believe without evidence, he wouldn't have given us the Bible. As Christians we accept the Bible is the word of God to varying degrees and we have "faith" that the scriptures are accurate but how do you avoid circular arguments like;

How do you know the Bible is accurate?
Because it's the word of God
How do you know it's the word of God?
Because the Bible says so
So how do you know the Bible is accurate?

Jesus is an historical figure, what he did is a part of history. The Bible has been copied and the original manuscripts are lost. But we can have confidence what we have is very close (99.5%) to the originals because of the number surviving copies and how early they are.

But there is also an outworking of faith, it's not just a set of intellectual questions. It's also about love, commitment and these can be the most powerful evidences for God there is. If I hadn't met 3 particular Christians, I'm not sure I would have got there. It all added to the evidence of Gods reality and trustworthiness.

I sometimes think Christians take faith in God for granted, his existence and trustworthiness. It's the easiest thing for us to do, even though there are bumps along the way. I wasn't always a Christian, wasn't brought up in a Christian household, I didn't have faith and I couldn't put my faith in someone I wasn't even sure existed let alone was trustworthy. But where there are questions there are usually answers and the answers helped quell my doubts.

So when someone says you must have faith, clarify what they mean by that because it's not a simple word to be taken lightly

 

[Grazer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RziR9rivKHo

Love the response he gives

 

[Grazer]

Ok. Been giving this some thought whilst walking back from tap dancing (its frickin cold here in Oxford, I'm expecting to see a scene from Day after tomorrow at any moment)

The only way I can fully answer this question is to bring in how I became a Christian. Reading that article there seems to be an assumption under lying it that simply doesn't apply to me. The issue I have is that there are things in my past that frankly I don't want to share with people on here.

So if you can give me some time, I will work out what's relevant and what that I'm prepared to share and I will address the issue of faith. Don't worry there will be scripture in there.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Are you contradicting yourself? You seem to sort of say that you don't have faith, yet you do have faith? Even you sig line sort of says the same thing.

Hi, Grazer!

I noticed this before, but I forgot about it until Edward drew my attention back to your sig. Please remove the "s" from "makes". It's bugging me.

:crazy

 

[Sparkey]

I don't have one of these amazing miracle stories to tell or anything fancy to open up skeptical ears. I ask myself "why did I choose god, how can I explain the subtle, yet drastic, change becoming a Christian made in my life?"

So if you can give me some time, I will work out what's relevant and what that I'm prepared to share and I will address the issue of faith. Don't worry there will be scripture in there.

Greetings Grazer,

May I suggest a new thread for that? Lne17 may be looking for discussion over debate.

 

[Grazer]

Greetings Grazer,

May I suggest a new thread for that? Lne17 may be looking for discussion over debate.

Hi

My comments were more aimed at Edward but another thread may be better

 

[trueblue]

God chose us all. That's why He sent His Son. Which was already preordained before the beginning of time.

 

[Sparkey]

It's up to you, Grazer. Lne17 has only made the one post and your testimony here may be exactly what he is looking for.
Hard to say. I like reading various thoughts about "Faith" too.

 

[Sparkey]

God chose us all. That's why He sent His Son. Which was already preordained before the beginning of time.

Greetings and Welcome trueblue,

Always glad to meet new members. I hope you enjoy your time with us on CF.net.

~Sparrow

 

[Grazer]

It's up to you, Grazer. Lne17 has only made the one post and your testimony here may be exactly what he is looking for.
Hard to say. I like reading various thoughts about "Faith" too.

I've been planning it and it's expanding into a huge task interconnecting many issues lol

 

[P31Woman]

Recently I've been talking to some people who are so completely convinced the bible is a big outdated book of ignorance. I can almost see where they are coming from with the way some "Christians" act today. I find myself desperately looking for the words to describe how amazing God's influence truly is to those who have never experienced it. The thing is, I don't have one of these amazing miracle stories to tell or anything fancy to open up skeptical ears. I ask myself "why did I choose god, how can I explain the subtle, yet drastic, change becoming a Christian made in my life?" To me it's so obvious and There is not a doubt in my mind our God is alive and very much real. But how do we show this glory to non believers looking for physical proof or some crazy special appearance from god himself?

Your testimoney may not be one filled with over the top miracles but it's yours. It hits you deep within. It's that small still vocie you hear. Most Christians lack that over the top drama filled life with a testimoney that will fill a movie theater. Yet day by day the Holy Spirit is working within our life. Helping to make us better citizens, workers, spouses, parents, and children of God.

How do we show it? By living it through the power of the Holy Spirit remembering we are Christ's ambassadors.

Even the multitude asked Jesus for "more signs". He refused and the multitude left him, never to follow him again.

 

[Danus]

Recently I've been talking to some people who are so completely convinced the bible is a big outdated book of ignorance. I can almost see where they are coming from with the way some "Christians" act today. I find myself desperately looking for the words to describe how amazing God's influence truly is to those who have never experienced it. The thing is, I don't have one of these amazing miracle stories to tell or anything fancy to open up skeptical ears. I ask myself "why did I choose god, how can I explain the subtle, yet drastic, change becoming a Christian made in my life?" To me it's so obvious and There is not a doubt in my mind our God is alive and very much real. But how do we show this glory to non believers looking for physical proof or some crazy special appearance from god himself?

Hello Lne17. welcome to CFN

I am of the firm persuasion that we in fact don't choose God, but rather he chooses us.

Choice is a funny thing. To say anyone chooses anything is a paradox, because to freely choose anything one must be motivated to make a choice. A free choice by definition to act on a desire. For example; "Will I have Coke or Pepsi?" Obviously Pepsi is evil and Coke is righteous, but If I desire Pepsi over Coke, I will act on my desire. However, I could also choose Coke even though I prefer Pepsi, but If I do that am I making a FREE choice, or a forced Choice? Let's look at it another way.

Suppose someone put's a gun to my head and gives me a choice; "Your money or your life?". Well, is that a free choice? I don't desire to give away either, but obviously I'd rather keep my life and loose my money, than to loose both my life and money, so I give the money. But, that is not a free choice. It's a forced choice.

My only point here is to suggests you think about our choices a little differently. Know that to have freedom in God we have to have the freedom to truly choose, and to have that freedom, we must be motivated by desire.

You will find, if you have not already, that you can not argue anyone into the grace of God; You can't do it. If that person has no desire for God, they are not persuaded towards God, then they are so FREELY, and it is important that be true. Otherwise, if one is not free from God's grace, then they are not free in God's grace. This biblical truth can not be ignored, because God is not obligated to offer anyone grace, only justice, and He offers both freely, and we have no "choice" but to accept one or the other freely.

So, what can you do? The only thing you can do, and that is to reflect the love and grace God has offered you freely, to others, and If you are freely in the grace of God, by your own volition and desire, then you can do this to others freely also.

know that the reason you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, is because you can not convince him he is thirsty. That have to be something in him. You are not here to save the lost. You are hear to point the way for the lost and seeking. To do that they must recognize you.

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks, Danus. Quoting the signature of P31Woman, Iron does sharpen iron. The next time somebody asks me, "What is free about that choice, especially considering how powerful God is and His being all knowing?"

I'll think about your vs. example, combined with the threat of a gun (:twopistols) and say, "My choice is/was/always-will-be free from coercion."

 

[Grazer]

I chose God freely, I didn't have a gun to my head. I believe God has chosen all of us through Christs death and resurrection giving us the choice. But then I'm a liberal and should be considered dangerous ;)

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Thanks, Danus. Quoting the signature of P31Woman, Iron does sharpen iron. The next time somebody asks me, "What is free about that choice, especially considering how powerful God is and His being all knowing?"

I'll think about your vs. example, combined with the threat of a gun (:twopistols) and say, "My choice is/was/always-will-be free from coercion."

Rachel Scott and Cassie Bernall both had the opportunity to make a gunpoint retraction. Neither did.