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Why?

you take issue with the Calvinists.yet blind yourself to the opposing,side issues .

I,don't .

there's is ann issue with a member in my,church that i won't post .

[/quote]one can be a caged reformed person to the point of dogmatic inclinations and not have the love one ought [/quote]

pastor raborn a reform ed five pointer discussing my opposing views and why I can still be a member of his church .there's more to what brought that up but i won't go there .

there are dogmatic futurists who consider those that disagree lost ,usually pre tribbers and won't attend a church that isn't
 
jasonc said:
oh try going to pentacostal to cessionist .

the Holy Spirit is viewed a bit different .

I prefer the reformed over the Catholic or Greek orothodox .

they are too rigid and I take issue with the large land one parish owns near it
Click to expand...
The Orthodox MIGHT be the original church....
Only because the CC changed too many of the original ideas. Or added to them, I should say.

The reformed should not be preferred ove the Ortho or the CC.
The Otho and CC do NOT change the character of God.

The reformed church changes the character of God.
That is much worse than getting a doctrine wrong.

Also, most probably calvinist churches do not state plainly what calvinism teaches.
This is why so many are put off by what I say...like Fastfredy0 for example...he says that I don't
understand calvinism....by what I've read in John Calvin's writings, I'd say that HE doesn't
understand calvinism. It doesn't seem to be a very honest faith view...and it has way too many
mysteries because of their misunderstanding of scripture and the nature of God.
 
jasonc said:
you take issue with the Calvinists.yet blind yourself to the opposing,side issues .

I,don't .

there's is ann issue with a member in my,church that i won't post .
Click to expand...
one can be a caged reformed person to the point of dogmatic inclinations and not have the love one ought [/quote]

pastor raborn a reform ed five pointer discussing my opposing views and why I can still be a member of his church .there's more to what brought that up but i won't go there .

there are dogmatic futurists who consider those that disagree lost ,usually pre tribbers and won't attend a church that isn't
[/QUOTE]

Jason,
What do you think the opposing side issues are?
I don't worry too much about side issues...these are personal matters.
Also, I never say whether a person is saved or not. It's not for me to say.
My problem with calvinism is that it changes the nature of God.
How many Gods are there anyway??? Two???
 
wondering said:
one can be a caged reformed person to the point of dogmatic inclinations and not have the love one ought
Click to expand...


pastor raborn a reform ed five pointer discussing my opposing views and why I can still be a member of his church .there's more to what brought that up but i won't go there .

there are dogmatic futurists who consider those that disagree lost ,usually pre tribbers and won't attend a church that isn't
[/QUOTE]

Jason,
What do you think the opposing side issues are?
I don't worry too much about side issues...these are personal matters.
Also, I never say whether a person is saved or not. It's not for me to say.
My problem with calvinism is that it changes the nature of God.
How many Gods are there anyway??? Two???
[/QUOTE]
God makes you so Holy at repentance you never ,ever sin again
a misunderstanding of what Wesley taught .

the fact that usually Arminist pentacostals will be one ness ,you must be filled with the Holy ghost and have a prayer language to be saved
the Catholic equilivent to the charismatic is not in Italy ,they don't have charismatic catholic mass?

i have attended that and they worship like the old church I went to ,tongues ,prophecy etc and laying of hand's ,slain in the spirit etc .
.
that can get chaotic and charismatic don't like pre written order of worship usually .they will barely plan choir practice.that is a must .most pastors preach by a simple prayer and open where God leads .

I was raised in that but well it's not a sin to study that way but well it is better to have order in how you present each book
 
wondering said:
The Orthodox MIGHT be the original church....
Only because the CC changed too many of the original ideas. Or added to them, I should say.

The reformed should not be preferred ove the Ortho or the CC.
The Otho and CC do NOT change the character of God.

The reformed church changes the character of God.
That is much worse than getting a doctrine wrong.

Also, most probably calvinist churches do not state plainly what calvinism teaches.
This is why so many are put off by what I say...like Fastfredy0 for example...he says that I don't
understand calvinism....by what I've read in John Calvin's writings, I'd say that HE doesn't
understand calvinism. It doesn't seem to be a very honest faith view...and it has way too many
mysteries because of their misunderstanding of scripture and the nature of God.
Click to expand...
I guess Lutheran isn't reformed,or protestant .

like i said ,its very hard locally because I take photos and love to know the history of a church and its doctrine.

case in point visit that thread i derailed on the storming of the capitol and look,for the post on the Bethlehem church ,his doctrine is crude .at least he bothered ,his parent church next door has no such statement .no online sof ,granted they may be ignorant but many churches don't have a statement of faith ,they are one man or woman shows ,pastor dies ,the church dies with him or her.
 
wondering said:
Right.
Exodus 20:4-5 uses the words IDOL and WORSHIP.

In those days people WERE worshipping gods....
some nations had a god for everything.

Our God was trying to teach persons that there is only ONE GOD.
When they built the golden calf,,,they WORHSIPED it.

Jesus left us the Shroud --- I THINK it's real.
Did Jesus make a mistake in leaving an image??
I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Most quote verse 4 without the context of verse 5.

And yes, we have the Shroud. There is a compelling case to be made that apart from the resurrection narratives in the Gospels, the Shroud is the referenced in another place in the New Testament: In Galatians 3:1, St. Paul makes reference to evidence the faithful at Galatia have actually seen. It is possibly the "prographō" of Jesus Christ crucified the Galatians saw with their own eyes.

But apart from the Shroud, we have our Blessed Lord Himself, who is the image of the invisible God. (cf. Col 1:15) Thus by virtue of the Incarnation, God has entered into His creation and thus now given man an image of Himself. He is the first and ultimate iconographer.

Therefore, in light of the Incarnation, it is the iconoclast who is now guilty of idolatry.
 
jasonc said:
pastor raborn a reform ed five pointer discussing my opposing views and why I can still be a member of his church .there's more to what brought that up but i won't go there .

there are dogmatic futurists who consider those that disagree lost ,usually pre tribbers and won't attend a church that isn't
Click to expand...


Jason,
What do you think the opposing side issues are?
I don't worry too much about side issues...these are personal matters.
Also, I never say whether a person is saved or not. It's not for me to say.
My problem with calvinism is that it changes the nature of God.
How many Gods are there anyway??? Two???
[/QUOTE]
God makes you so Holy at repentance you never ,ever sin again
a misunderstanding of what Wesley taught .

the fact that usually Arminist pentacostals will be one ness ,you must be filled with the Holy ghost and have a prayer language to be saved
the Catholic equilivent to the charismatic is not in Italy ,they don't have charismatic catholic mass?

i have attended that and they worship like the old church I went to ,tongues ,prophecy etc and laying of hand's ,slain in the spirit etc .
.
that can get chaotic and charismatic don't like pre written order of worship usually .they will barely plan choir practice.that is a must .most pastors preach by a simple prayer and open where God leads .

I was raised in that but well it's not a sin to study that way but well it is better to have order in how you present each book
[/QUOTE]
Jason,,,there's something wrong with your quote feature...
check it out...

We agree that it's impossible to NEVER sin again after rebirth.

Charismatic Masses are not practiced in my region - I can't speak for all of Italy since each Bishop does as he pleases (within reason).
There are, however, charismatic groups...I've never belonged to one although I know persons that attend and they do seem to be
more "spiritual" than other Catholics...but, then again, I know Catholics that are not charismatic but very much saved. (as far as I can tell).

I've always attended churches that have choir practice (was in one when I was younger) and also the preaching/teaching is planned.
Took a discipleship course once that lasted a year -- it was great! It helped me to understand so much of the N.T.
 
jasonc said:
I guess Lutheran isn't reformed,or protestant .

like i said ,its very hard locally because I take photos and love to know the history of a church and its doctrine.

case in point visit that thread i derailed on the storming of the capitol and look,for the post on the Bethlehem church ,his doctrine is crude .at least he bothered ,his parent church next door has no such statement .no online sof ,granted they may be ignorant but many churches don't have a statement of faith ,they are one man or woman shows ,pastor dies ,the church dies with him or her.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
BTW, Lutheran churches are reformed....
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
They're named after M. Luther....
 
wondering said:
Jason,
What do you think the opposing side issues are?
I don't worry too much about side issues...these are personal matters.
Also, I never say whether a person is saved or not. It's not for me to say.
My problem with calvinism is that it changes the nature of God.
How many Gods are there anyway??? Two???
Click to expand...

God makes you so Holy at repentance you never ,ever sin again
a misunderstanding of what Wesley taught .

the fact that usually Arminist pentacostals will be one ness ,you must be filled with the Holy ghost and have a prayer language to be saved
the Catholic equilivent to the charismatic is not in Italy ,they don't have charismatic catholic mass?

i have attended that and they worship like the old church I went to ,tongues ,prophecy etc and laying of hand's ,slain in the spirit etc .
.
that can get chaotic and charismatic don't like pre written order of worship usually .they will barely plan choir practice.that is a must .most pastors preach by a simple prayer and open where God leads .

I was raised in that but well it's not a sin to study that way but well it is better to have order in how you present each book
[/QUOTE]
Jason,,,there's something wrong with your quote feature...
check it out...

We agree that it's impossible to NEVER sin again after rebirth.

Charismatic Masses are not practiced in my region - I can't speak for all of Italy since each Bishop does as he pleases (within reason).
There are, however, charismatic groups...I've never belonged to one although I know persons that attend and they do seem to be
more "spiritual" than other Catholics...but, then again, I know Catholics that are not charismatic but very much saved. (as far as I can tell).

I've always attended churches that have choir practice (was in one when I was younger) and also the preaching/teaching is planned.
Took a discipleship course once that lasted a year -- it was great! It helped me to understand so much of the N.T.
[/QUOTE]
sin less perfection.

meaning you don't need to heed john 1:9
 
jasonc said:
God makes you so Holy at repentance you never ,ever sin again
a misunderstanding of what Wesley taught .

the fact that usually Arminist pentacostals will be one ness ,you must be filled with the Holy ghost and have a prayer language to be saved
the Catholic equilivent to the charismatic is not in Italy ,they don't have charismatic catholic mass?

i have attended that and they worship like the old church I went to ,tongues ,prophecy etc and laying of hand's ,slain in the spirit etc .
.
that can get chaotic and charismatic don't like pre written order of worship usually .they will barely plan choir practice.that is a must .most pastors preach by a simple prayer and open where God leads .

I was raised in that but well it's not a sin to study that way but well it is better to have order in how you present each book
Click to expand...

Jason,,,there's something wrong with your quote feature...
check it out...

We agree that it's impossible to NEVER sin again after rebirth.

Charismatic Masses are not practiced in my region - I can't speak for all of Italy since each Bishop does as he pleases (within reason).
There are, however, charismatic groups...I've never belonged to one although I know persons that attend and they do seem to be
more "spiritual" than other Catholics...but, then again, I know Catholics that are not charismatic but very much saved. (as far as I can tell).

I've always attended churches that have choir practice (was in one when I was younger) and also the preaching/teaching is planned.
Took a discipleship course once that lasted a year -- it was great! It helped me to understand so much of the N.T.
[/QUOTE]
sin less perfection.

meaning you don't need to heed john 1:9
[/QUOTE]
Right.
But it's wrong.
LOL
 
wondering said:
Jason,,,there's something wrong with your quote feature...
check it out...

We agree that it's impossible to NEVER sin again after rebirth.

Charismatic Masses are not practiced in my region - I can't speak for all of Italy since each Bishop does as he pleases (within reason).
There are, however, charismatic groups...I've never belonged to one although I know persons that attend and they do seem to be
more "spiritual" than other Catholics...but, then again, I know Catholics that are not charismatic but very much saved. (as far as I can tell).

I've always attended churches that have choir practice (was in one when I was younger) and also the preaching/teaching is planned.
Took a discipleship course once that lasted a year -- it was great! It helped me to understand so much of the N.T.
Click to expand...
sin less perfection.

meaning you don't need to heed john 1:9
[/QUOTE]
Right.
But it's wrong.
LOL
[/QUOTE]
and it distorts the gospel
 
wondering said:
Agreed.
BTW, Lutheran churches are reformed....
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
They're named after M. Luther....
Click to expand...
Reformed from what? Reverend Martin Luther's mission was never to leave the Catholic church but rather to call to attention what he saw as errors or possibly even heresies that had permeated the church over the years. It could be argued, and has been for centuries, the reformation was an attempt to right some wrongs and misunderstandings.

The leaders of the Catholic church would have nothing of it and ordered him to basically shut his mouth and eventually excommunicated him, labeling him the troublemaker and adversary. Of course, then as well as today, the Catholic church and the Lutheran church each will aggressively defend their positions but only God knows the real truth.

Oh, and it was never Reverend Luther's desire to name the new church with his surname but actually opposed it but it stuck anyway.

This is what my research has shown me.
 
WIP said:
Reformed from what? Reverend Martin Luther's mission was never to leave the Catholic church but rather to call to attention what he saw as errors or possibly even heresies that had permeated the church over the years. It could be argued, and has been for centuries, the reformation was an attempt to right some wrongs and misunderstandings.

The leaders of the Catholic church would have nothing of it and ordered him to basically shut his mouth and eventually excommunicated him, labeling him the troublemaker and adversary. Of course, then as well as today, the Catholic church and the Lutheran church each will aggressively defend their positions but only God knows the real truth.

Oh, and it was never Reverend Luther's desire to name the new church with his surname but actually opposed it but it stuck anyway.

This is what my research has shown me.
Click to expand...
All agreed.
But it's called the reformation because Luther wanted to reform the church and return to basic Christianity as it was
after Jesus' resurrection when the church was new.

The Pope ex-communicated Luther and banned him from the CC.
 
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