Why?

[humble soul]

I know He is loving, kind, gracious, forgiving, awesome, almighty, bountiful, generous, beautiful, compassionate, faithful, powerful, sacrificial, holy.....and the list goes on an on.

You know?
Then you don't need faith.

 

[WIP]

You know?
Then you don't need faith.

What I know, I know by faith and yes, we do need faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

In Protestantism, why are these statues / images allowed...

But these aren't?

Hi Walpole,
Long time, no see.

The answer is because Protestants think Catholics worship the statue.
Which they don't.

BTW, There aren't many churches with statues still in them unless they're old churches or
those really beautiful ones in Europe.

 

[jasonc]

Hi Walpole,
Long time, no see.

The answer is because Protestants think Catholics worship the statue.
Which they don't.

BTW, There aren't many churches with statues still in them unless they're old churches or
those really beautiful ones in Europe.

st.Helens does .less 90 years old .

 

[GodsGrace]

st.Helens does .less 90 years old .

I'd consider that an old church.
The Catholic Church I attended as a young girl had statues all over the place.
That was in the .....ooops!
I just don't see this anymore.

I think statues are used to focus the attention of a person.
I see paintings of Jesus in many churches...even here.
In one church they put all the statues in the back where they have confession.
There's a note under the statues....it says "Have you thought of praying to Jesus
before you pray to these saints?"

The new Catholics understand things much better...the older generation (maybe in their 60's and up)
remember the good ole' days when there was a saint for everything and they were not properly instructed.
No bible study, etc.

 

[jasonc]

I'd consider that an old church.
The Catholic Church I attended as a young girl had statues all over the place.
That was in the .....ooops!
I just don't see this anymore.

I think statues are used to focus the attention of a person.
I see paintings of Jesus in many churches...even here.
In one church they put all the statues in the back where they have confession.
There's a note under the statues....it says "Have you thought of praying to Jesus
before you pray to these saints?"

The new Catholics understand things much better...the older generation (maybe in their 60's and up)
remember the good ole' days when there was a saint for everything and they were not properly instructed.
No bible study, etc.

its not ,that's young ,trust me I probably could ,an older one .the edifice is 70 ,congregation ,101.the older sanctuary didnt have them.the. older sister parishes ,might .I haven't heard of st.Anastasia does or the one in Stuart .of them st.Anastasia is the oldest ,but only by a few years .

1910 ,to 1919 for st.Helens

 

[WIP]

Hi Walpole,
Long time, no see.

The answer is because Protestants think Catholics worship the statue.
Which they don't.

BTW, There aren't many churches with statues still in them unless they're old churches or
those really beautiful ones in Europe.

I don't think I have ever been in a Catholic church that does not have statues depicting Jesus, Mary, and even Joseph. Literally every Catholic church has a Crucifixion with a statue depicting Jesus on it. Is it different in Italy?

 

[WIP]

I'd consider that an old church.
The Catholic Church I attended as a young girl had statues all over the place.
That was in the .....ooops!
I just don't see this anymore.

I think statues are used to focus the attention of a person.
I see paintings of Jesus in many churches...even here.
In one church they put all the statues in the back where they have confession.
There's a note under the statues....it says "Have you thought of praying to Jesus
before you pray to these saints?"

The new Catholics understand things much better...the older generation (maybe in their 60's and up)
remember the good ole' days when there was a saint for everything and they were not properly instructed.
No bible study, etc.

Yes, looking back at my upbringing, Bible study was poor at best. I don't recall ever seeing an actual Bible throughout my time in the Catholic church. It does seem that the focus is more often on the Catechism than the Scriptures but in their defense my memory may not the best so I could be mistaken about that. Not saying that the Bible studies we have in my Lutheran church are any better though.

I personally think Bible study is not taken seriously enough and that goes for my Catholic Catechism classes, Catholic schooling, and my Lutheran experiences. When I left the Catholic church I was very unschooled about who Jesus was and what it means to be saved.

I know in my Lutheran church it is laypeople that are called to teach the classes and there is no teaching degree involved. It basically revolves around whoever is willing to take the responsibility. Teaching is not always an easy thing to do. If my memory is accurate, you have taught Bible studies so maybe you have an idea of what I'm talking about.

I was asked to teach our high schoolers for about 10 years and I never felt fully qualified. For one thing, our church is very small so my class usually included 7th - 12th grade students. I didn't like that and felt it was too much of an age difference.

It surprised me how hard it was to get the students to bring a Bible to the class. I would ask them if they go to their high school classes without their text books and tell them. I expected them to bring their textbook, the Bible, to class every Sunday but they were not disciplined to do so and without the parent's help I did not know how to enforce it better.

 

[GodsGrace]

its not ,that's young ,trust me I probably could ,an older one .the edifice is 70 ,congregation ,101.the older sanctuary didnt have them.the. older sister parishes ,might .I haven't heard of st.Anastasia does or the one in Stuart .of them st.Anastasia is the oldest ,but only by a few years .

1910 ,to 1919 for st.Helens

I mean in terms of the stature reference.
90 years ago statues were "in vogue".

 

[jasonc]

I mean in terms of the stature reference.
90 years ago statues were "in vogue".

I havent been inside the Romulan churches ,lol in a while ,

I call the book of Romans ,romulans ,after someone called the book of phillipians,phillipines

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think I have ever been in a Catholic church that does not have statues depicting Jesus, Mary, and even Joseph. Literally every Catholic church has a Crucifixion with a statue depicting Jesus on it. Is it different in Italy?

I'm sorry WIP.....
EVERY Catholic church as a statue of Jesus on the cross above the altar.
Also there are imagers of Mary and/or statues in the older churches...
the newer ones have maybe a stature that is out of the way, or at least, not very noticeable.
When I was growing up in a catholic church in NY there were statues all over the place...
of different saints. That is still true h ere in t he older churches.
The church I mentioned before that put all the statues in the back room, out of sight,
even h ad one of St. Padre Pio who is a very recent saint.

It's the same h ere.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, looking back at my upbringing, Bible study was poor at best. I don't recall ever seeing an actual Bible throughout my time in the Catholic church. It does seem that the focus is more often on the Catechism than the Scriptures but in their defense my memory may not the best so I could be mistaken about that. Not saying that the Bible studies we have in my Lutheran church are any better though.

You're right WIP.
When a question comes up, the CCC is referenced not the bible.
The bible studies in the Catholic church here is very surface and they don't dig deep.
I do enjoy a bible study I used to attend with a monk who is very knowledgeable and made it worth my trip to
go to his study (45 mountain road minutes from home).

I personally think Bible study is not taken seriously enough and that goes for my Catholic Catechism classes, Catholic schooling, and my Lutheran experiences. When I left the Catholic church I was very unschooled about who Jesus was and what it means to be saved.

I know in my Lutheran church it is laypeople that are called to teach the classes and there is no teaching degree involved. It basically revolves around whoever is willing to take the responsibility. Teaching is not always an easy thing to do. If my memory is accurate, you have taught Bible studies so maybe you have an idea of what I'm talking about.

I know exactly what you're talking about.
Except here the priests do the study, or, at least, a Deacon - but it's still superficial.
And yes, teaching is not the same as knowing.
I taught catechism classes here for 6 years to kids 8 to 11. I had to stop for personal reasons.
Did a few classes with adults - I liked that better, but then it was decided by the Bishop that lay persons could
not teach others. This might have to change with the shortage of priests here.
I'm not Catholic anymore....to many doctrine I can't understand biblically. Too much stuff made up by the church.
But, hey, no church is perfect and no denomination is perfect.

I was asked to teach our high schoolers for about 10 years and I never felt fully qualified. For one thing, our church is very small so my class usually included 7th - 12th grade students. I didn't like that and felt it was too much of an age difference.

It surprised me how hard it was to get the students to bring a Bible to the class. I would ask them if they go to their high school classes without their text books and tell them. I expected them to bring their textbook, the Bible, to class every Sunday but they were not disciplined to do so and without the parent's help I did not know how to enforce it better.

After confirmation (13 yrs old) kids here stop going to catechism...so basically it has ended altogether.
The parents are really atheist and we had VERY LITTLE support or no support from them.
How I did it was easy because the kids had to make their communion and confirmation...
I told them they needed a notebook and pen and an inexpensive bible or they would not be able to study with me.
Luckily the priest allowed me to do this although he felt it was too "harsh"!!!!
The parents were happy that their kids were going home with notes. They told me it was the first time they felt
like it wasn't a waste of time.
High school kids are tough --- they really have no reason to attend.
I'm very sorry we give more importance to math and history than to God.
Sorry for the rant. You brought back many memories.

 

[humble soul]

Literally every Catholic church has a Crucifixion with a statue depicting Jesus on it. Is it different in Italy?

Only in the Vatican?? ?

 

[humble soul]

You're right WIP.
When a question comes up, the CCC is referenced not the bible.
The bible studies in the Catholic church here is very surface and they don't dig deep.
I do enjoy a bible study I used to attend with a monk who is very knowledgeable and made it worth my trip to
go to his study (45 mountain road minutes from home).


I know exactly what you're talking about.
Except here the priests do the study, or, at least, a Deacon - but it's still superficial.
And yes, teaching is not the same as knowing.
I taught catechism classes here for 6 years to kids 8 to 11. I had to stop for personal reasons.
Did a few classes with adults - I liked that better, but then it was decided by the Bishop that lay persons could
not teach others. This might have to change with the shortage of priests here.
I'm not Catholic anymore....to many doctrine I can't understand biblically. Too much stuff made up by the church.
But, hey, no church is perfect and no denomination is perfect.


After confirmation (13 yrs old) kids here stop going to catechism...so basically it has ended altogether.
The parents are really atheist and we had VERY LITTLE support or no support from them.
How I did it was easy because the kids had to make their communion and confirmation...
I told them they needed a notebook and pen and an inexpensive bible or they would not be able to study with me.
Luckily the priest allowed me to do this although he felt it was too "harsh"!!!!
The parents were happy that their kids were going home with notes. They told me it was the first time they felt
like it wasn't a waste of time.
High school kids are tough --- they really have no reason to attend.
I'm very sorry we give more importance to math and history than to God.
Sorry for the rant. You brought back many memories.

The Catholic Bible Study I attended, the CCC was used but only in conjunction. As an add on . It was referenced around 10% of the time. I never felt it was used to replace the Bible. The study of the Bible was very intensive. The ex Protestants members excelled and said they were impressed with the level of detail that the Bible was studied. They were learning new things. The study series was produced by Jeff Cavins, Ascension Press.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Catholic Bible Study I attended, the CCC was used but only in conjunction. As an add on . It was referenced around 10% of the time. I never felt it was used to replace the Bible. The study of the Bible was very intensive. The ex Protestants members excelled and said they were impressed with the level of detail that the Bible was studied. They were learning new things. The study series was produced by Jeff Cavins, Ascension Press.

It was a professional bible study. Good !

In bible study, the bible is used.
For doctrinal purposes, the CCC is used.
There are also studies of the CCC, but not too many around.
It's very difficult to teach from the CCC.

I'm happy you're able to have a good bible study.
There were none around when I had my born again experience.
(and so I decided to leave the CC).

 

[WIP]

After confirmation (13 yrs old) kids here stop going to catechism...so basically it has ended altogether.
The parents are really atheist and we had VERY LITTLE support or no support from them.
How I did it was easy because the kids had to make their communion and confirmation...
I told them they needed a notebook and pen and an inexpensive bible or they would not be able to study with me.
Luckily the priest allowed me to do this although he felt it was too "harsh"!!!!
The parents were happy that their kids were going home with notes. They told me it was the first time they felt
like it wasn't a waste of time.
High school kids are tough --- they really have no reason to attend.
I'm very sorry we give more importance to math and history than to God.
Sorry for the rant. You brought back many memories.

I fully understand what you're saying. I experienced the same thing. Once the kids were confirmed, I stopped seeing them in class. That is where I think parents fall short. They claim to be Christian and yet don't require their children to continue attending. I always told my students that confirmation wasn't an ending but a beginning or a step on the ladder of Christian life.

Speaking of going home with notes, I'll never forget my first year teaching when I presented the class with a test. The looks on their faces was something to behold.

 

[WIP]

I fully understand what you're saying. I experienced the same thing. Once the kids were confirmed, I stopped seeing them in class. That is where I think parents fall short. They claim to be Christian and yet don't require their children to continue attending. I always told my students that confirmation wasn't an ending but a beginning or a step on the ladder of Christian life.

Speaking of going home with notes, I'll never forget my first year teaching when I presented the class with a test. The looks on their faces was something to behold.

One interesting note. Those students whose parents attended adult Bible study and made them stay in class after confirmation are still attending church regularly in adulthood. It makes a difference because it shows the students how important Christianity is to the parents as the are leading by example.

 

[humble soul]

That is where I think parents fall short. They claim to be Christian and yet don't require their children to continue attending.

You could see this as a positive. Catholic parents don't get obsessive , controlling or too zealous. I can see positives in not taking the Bible too seriously for example.

 

[GodsGrace]

One interesting note. Those students whose parents attended adult Bible study and made them stay in class after confirmation are still attending church regularly in adulthood. It makes a difference because it shows the students how important Christianity is to the parents as the are leading by example.

Right!

 

[GodsGrace]

I fully understand what you're saying. I experienced the same thing. Once the kids were confirmed, I stopped seeing them in class. That is where I think parents fall short. They claim to be Christian and yet don't require their children to continue attending. I always told my students that confirmation wasn't an ending but a beginning or a step on the ladder of Christian life.

Speaking of going home with notes, I'll never forget my first year teaching when I presented the class with a test. The looks on their faces was something to behold.

LOL
My parents didn't even CLAIM to be Christian. Italy is NOT a Christian country, that's for sure.

You were probably the only one that ever gave them a TEST!!!!
You and I could have made a good pair!
To the horror of the class!
LOL