Wicca - an experience report

[Furz]

Chris, before I decide in favor of something; I must know as exactly as possible whether the decision is correct. And it lasts for it to find this out from time to time very long.
I can already, however, tell you so much now: It looks whole after that the Christianity is more based on myths and legends than on facts. Many of the stories of the Bible were found also in other cultures at much earlier times. And more also seems a legend to Jesus Christ but to have been an actual person. What his birth at least concerns by a virgin and his miracles. But my examinations are not completed yet. If I would consider the Christianity wrong, this does not mean that I go to the Wicca faith.

 

[Chris.]

furz do your research, that bible and those stories have been scrutinised by thousands professors and historians. They're not dumb or easily fooled and that bible is still considered truth and not disproven. most modern history would agree Jesus Christ lived. Us christians believe he was who he said he was, we take it a step further.

What you are seeking you will find via faith not evidence. Faith only unlocks the supernatural.

 

[Furz]

Before one can believe something, one must check whether the faith could possibly be true at least. Imagine I would sacrifice the time, money and work for something which would not be worth it. I do not waste my time.
That Jesus existed is may a fact in science. His origin, his miracles and his death (and the resurrection connected to that) are not documented outside the Bible. So, not very believable.

 

[Free]

Before one can believe something, one must check whether the faith could possibly be true at least. Imagine I would sacrifice the time, money and work for something which would not be worth it. I do not waste my time.

So are you doing this honestly then or are you just looking at sites that supposedly debunk Christian beliefs? Any honest search will also take a good look at the Christian view of things and as to why there are very good reasons to believe what the Bible says.

That Jesus existed is may a fact in science. His origin, his miracles and his death (and the resurrection connected to that) are not documented outside the Bible. So, not very believable.

That some things may not be documented outside the Bible does not mean they are not true. As to the resurrection, the most significant event in history, there are very good reasons to believe that it happened. No one has yet provided any significant argument against the empty tomb.

 

[Mike]

Before one can believe something, one must check whether the faith could possibly be true at least. Imagine I would sacrifice the time, money and work for something which would not be worth it. I do not waste my time.
That Jesus existed is may a fact in science. His origin, his miracles and his death (and the resurrection connected to that) are not documented outside the Bible. So, not very believable.

When you joined, you checked the box to indicate "Yes, I am a Christian". Did you misunderstand the question, were you being dishonest, or do you believe being a Christian can mean anything from believing the accounts in the Bible to merely believing he was a "good teacher who had some good ideas"?

You recently started a thread about the lie of Islam, yet here you are stating that Jesus' resurrection is implausible.

 

[chakham]

Before one can believe something, one must check whether the faith could possibly be true at least. Imagine I would sacrifice the time, money and work for something which would not be worth it. I do not waste my time.
That Jesus existed is may a fact in science. His origin, his miracles and his death (and the resurrection connected to that) are not documented outside the Bible. So, not very believable.

Furz, your questions remind me of my own. But please I suggest you read Yehovah's commandments concerning things such as Wicca. Please turn away from those practices as absolutely nothing good can come from it.

Not to suffer any one practicing witchcraft to live (Ex. 22:17)
Not to practice observing times or seasons as favorable or unfavorable, using astrology (Lev. 19:26)
Not to practice doing things based on signs and portents; using charms and incantations (Lev. 19:26)
Not to consult ghosts (Lev. 19:31)
Not to consult wizards (Lev. 19:31)
Not to practice magic using herbs, stones and objects that people use) (Deut. 18:10)
Not to practice magic (Deut. 18:10)
Not to practice the art of a casting spells (Deut. 18:11)
Not to enquire of a ghost (Deut. 18:11)
Not to seek the dead (Deut. 18:11)
Not to enquire of a wizard (Deut. 18:11)

 

[westtexas]

His origin, his miracles and his death (and the resurrection connected to that) are not documented outside the Bible. So, not very believable.

Untrue. Here is what the historian Josephus (A.D.37-100) wrote. Read it all but take note of paragraph 3.
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/josephus.html
Still praying for you Furz, Westtexas

 

[Furz]

Please read what I wrote. I never described your deceased mother as a demon. I clearly stated that demons will appear as whomever they need to to get you to believe what they say. It's called deception. It was not your mother that you saw.

You did not take part. It was my mother. This is as safe as it is sure that every day the sun goes down.By the way demons. I have asked about it by now, too. Read once the article on demons at Wickipedia.

So are you doing this honestly then or are you just looking at sites that supposedly debunk Christian beliefs? Any honest search will also take a good look at the Christian view of things and as to why there are very good reasons to believe what the Bible says.

If I start with my examinations, I do not have an opinion of my own before. I have myself surprised. And I am often also surprised. Like at my article on Bible and homosexuality. My researches are very intensive at the moment and as it looks, I will be no more Christian well soon. Wicca but not presumable also. I will try to find my own spiritual way.

That some things may not be documented outside the Bible does not mean they are not true. As to the resurrection, the most significant event in history, there are very good reasons to believe that it happened. No one has yet provided any significant argument against the empty tomb.

It is mentioned outside the Bible nowhere at this time. There are not nonbiblical sources. Moreover, Horus, Mythra and Krishna as "Saviors" have a similar story. Everyone was born by a Virgin, everyone cured sick persons or resurrected dead bodies. Everyone had disciples and died a violent death; and everyone resurected And all of them were admired in front of Jesus for a long time. What is there probably more credible? The Bible or the traditions of these "divinities"?

 

[Furz]

When you joined, you checked the box to indicate "Yes, I am a Christian". Did you misunderstand the question, were you being dishonest, or do you believe being a Christian can mean anything from believing the accounts in the Bible to merely believing he was a "good teacher who had some good ideas"?

Somebody who believes the Bible and Christian teachings and God and Jesus, is a Christian. This one was baptized and confirmed. I am all this. I doubt the Christianity and examine it for myself now and am I suddenly regarded as a non-Christian? In this forum the right does not take himself out whom to decide who is a Christian and whom? This right is entitled to only Jesus and of course God. Nobody else!

You recently started a thread about the lie of Islam, yet here you are stating that Jesus' resurrection is implausible.

I do not know about the Islam therefore I also will have written nothing to this. Related to Jesus I state only facts and ask myself questions. I never think a little thoughtlessly I check first.

 

[Furz]

Untrue. Here is what the historian Josephus (A.D.37-100) wrote. Read it all but take note of paragraph 3.
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/josephus.html
Still praying for you Furz, Westtexas

Historians agree of Flavius Josephus and there, the quotations are not from him but were inserted by Christians later. Unfortunately, my material from the Internet to this only is in German. And my English is too lousy to be able to translate it correctly. If so somebody can speak German under you well, I like to send this person my documents for it.
This English internet page helps there perhaps:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

I quote:

As Earl Doherty says, in "Josephus Unbound":

"Now, it is a curious fact that older generations of scholars had no trouble dismissing this entire passage as a Christian construction. Charles Guignebert, for example, in his Jesus (1956, p.17), calls it 'a pure Christian forgery.' Before him, Lardner, Harnack and Schurer, along with others, declared it entirely spurious. Today, most serious scholars have decided the passage is a mix: original parts rubbing shoulders with later Christian additions."
​

There IS no evidence there for it!

 

[Furz]

Furz, your questions remind me of my own. But please I suggest you read Yehovah's commandments concerning things such as Wicca. Please turn away from those practices as absolutely nothing good can come from it.

After the previous result of my researches, it looks that way that I will be no more Christian. And presumably also not a Wicca. I must find my own path.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Well, Furz, I knew from your first post, where you were headed ...

Historians agree of Flavius Josephus and there, the quotations are not from him but were inserted by Christians later.

There IS no evidence there for it!

For my next trick, I'll tell you what the stock market is gonna do by Christmas. :D

 

[Furz]

For my next trick, I'll tell you what the stock market is gonna do by Christmas. :D

You're so funny, Pizzaguy. I'm based on facts. You based on nothing than prejudices.

 

[westtexas]

This English internet page helps there perhaps:

Furz, the website you have linked us to has hundreds of articles which deny the deity of Jesus Christ as well as casting doubt on Christianity. The only thing you have proved to me with this site is that maybe your search for the truth is not quite what you have portrayed it to be. With that I'll bow out of this conversation and continue to talk to unbelievers who are truly searching for the truth.

I'll continue to pray for you, Westtexas

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Last night three of my ancestors appeared at my bed, not everyone suddenly, one after the other, like in the Christmas Carol written by Dickens.
They told me many things and I am busy checking these now. I believe namely nothing without a previous thorough check.
Whether I will be further a Christian or change my religion will depend on the result.
I feel myself further than a Christian, however have these three women told me something, which lets me doubt at the Christianity.
It is primarily about Jesus Christ, demons and the role of women in the Bible.
I will let you know what my check had brought at results.

Was this in response to a specific incantation? Also, was a specific word of power used? If so, I'd invite you to pm me the details if you're willing. Parts of Wicca are relatively harmless nature rituals, whereas others can and have brought forth a LOT of problems for people. There's good reason why the Bible warns us against such things. I've gone down that path before and have found good reason to leave it alone whenever possible.

 

[roger_dodger]

Historians agree of Flavius Josephus and there, the quotations are not from him but were inserted by Christians later. Unfortunately, my material from the Internet to this only is in German. And my English is too lousy to be able to translate it correctly. If so somebody can speak German under you well, I like to send this person my documents for it.
This English internet page helps there perhaps:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

I quote:


There IS no evidence there for it!

What "historians agree of (sic) Flavius Josephus" is irrelevant. Those so-called "historians" views are based on nothing more than personal or institutional bias.

Fact 1: The oldest existing copies of Josephus' work contain the reference to Jesus.
Fact 2: There are no extant copies without the reference to Jesus.
Fact 3: There is no evidence that the passage regarding Jesus was added by Christians or anyone else after the work was completed by Josephus himself.

Lacking any evidence whatsoever that Josephus work was anything other than what we have today, the assertion that it was added later has no merit whatsoever.

As an aside, are you from Canada?

 

[chakham]

After the previous result of my researches, it looks that way that I will be no more Christian. And presumably also not a Wicca. I must find my own path.

As far as I know there are only two paths. One leads to death the other, life. I pray you find and choose the right one. Teach me, O Lord, the way of your statutes; and I shall keep it to the end. Give me understanding, and I shall keep your Torah; I shall observe it with my whole heart. Lead me in the path of your commandments; for I delight in it. psalms 119

 

[Pizzaguy]

As far as I know there are only two paths. One leads to death the other, life.

 

[Stormcrow]

Untrue. Here is what the historian Josephus (A.D.37-100) wrote. Read it all but take note of paragraph 3.
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/josephus.html
Still praying for you Furz, Westtexas

Josephus isn't the only non-Biblical source:

But all human efforts, all the lavish gifts of the emperor, and the propitiations of the gods, did not banish the sinister belief that the conflagration was the result of an order.
​

[The Roman historian Tacitus is recounting the fire that destroyed much of Rome under Nero's reign and the steps Nero took to cast the blame on others.]

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.

Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.

Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed.

Tacitus, Annals 15:44
​

 

[sparrow]

Bummer,my answer got lost...
Basically though, it looks like a drive by fruiting to me.

I do appreciate how much you folks care, though.

Mark