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Will the Church be Judged?

  • Thread starter Thread starter manichunter
  • Start date Start date

Will the Church Be Judged

  • Yes

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  • I do not know

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  • Total voters
    5
M

manichunter

Guest
Will the Church of Jesus face a future judgment by God?

I say yes, Scripture says in 1Pe 4:17 - For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? All KJV Scripture was used for this post.

Why does anyone face judgment? Two reasons.
First, judgment removes impurities and transgression out of the character of our soul. This is done when a person does voluntarily seek change on their own. God takes it upon Himself to appoint a season in which He takes things out of our character in order to prepare and promote us for the next season of our life. Jas 1:2-4- My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,, 3knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

This is the sort of trial encountered by Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David, Job, the Apostles that lead to their promotions and preparations for the next function and season in their life. The saints of today are not exempt from the purifications made by ordained trials God requires to promote us. This can be called the judgment of purification.

Secondly, judgment is God's attempt to get His people out of the state of sin. God either tries to bring His people to repentance and get them to return to His ways, or He allows judgment to take them into captivity. He then either puts them on the shelf as a vessel of dishonor or destroys them like a heathen. This believer does not make an honest attempt to judge them self. They make little to know effort to change their understanding, lifestyle, and state. This can be called the judgment against iniquity or lawlessness.

1Co 11:31 -For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.

Heb 12:6 - For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives."

Re 2:16 - Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fightagainstthem with the sword of My mouth.

I say these things because the Lord has been showing me, preparing me, and about to promote me to some things that could either cause fear or joy in most saints. There is a reason why judgment always comes upon the people of God first. Simply, it is God's pattern and He changes not. He has always followed this pattern of judging His people first, then the nations secondly. However within the judging of His people, there are various stages and types of judgment.

First, when God judges His people, He always gives a warning before judging His people as stated by Eze 3:17 - Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

Secondly, when judgment comes upon His people, a remnant is always set aside becomes they have proven themselves faithful and repentive. They are judged collectively but their judgment works for their good and the good of those to follow. This remnant is a type of first fruit for the next harvest of God's people. They are given instructions by God and prophecy concerning what to do after the period of captivity is lifted. Hence they are prepared for the judgment and trials to come.
Isa 1:9 - Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Isa 37:31 - And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
This is illustrated from Noah and Daniel to the believing disciples of Jesus.

Jer 29:1 - Now these are the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon;

Thirdly, when judgment comes upon God's people, he takes the unfaithful into captivity with a sentence of death. They are treated as a gentile sense they acted like a gentile. They face the same consequences of the heathen. God always judged Israel by a gentile nation, then turned around and judged the nation that captured Israel.
Ho 8:8 - Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.

Lastly, God judges the gentile nations for their sins and rebellion against Him.

Now lets get to the point that the Spirit taught me. The time is near that judgment must begin at the house of the Lord. House denotes and refers to the people within a household not any physical building. The bride of Christ must be made ready if she is to be without spot, wrinkle, and blemish. The first fruit saints are being made ready to deliver the last message meant especially for the tribulation preparation.

Who does God always send before His returns? Elijah's who prepare His way. The message has been and still is repent for the King is coming. It will be no different in the future. God wants the lamps full of oil and His people woke for His appearing. The clock says that the Day of Atonement is near.

The period of atonement is about to start before the coming tribulation. This will be the period that the judgment of purification perfects those saints that fall upon the rock.

After the trumpets start blowing the period of atonement is up. It will be too late to get the special revelation, power, awareness, and calling for the end time ministry needed during the tribulation. End time ministry will not be business as usual. The time of playing church will be over. Those who are prepared will be ready. Those who are not ready will go into captivity by the judgment of iniquity.

The unprepared will have the rock fall on them because since they did not judge themselves, repent, or heed the message of preparation. This period of judgment regarding iniquity will be doing the first three and a half years of the tribulation.
Re 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Re 13:7 -And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

During the period of atonement, the Body of Christ will undergo a cooperate judgment of purification. Some will submit to the judgment and some will not submit to the judgment. Then those who would not submit to the judgment of purification will under the judgment of iniquity along with the gentile nations in the tribulations.

What do you think if you have read this post?
 
I wonder if he will let us opt out of the judgment depending upon our denomination.
 
KenEOTE said:
I wonder if he will let us opt out of the judgment depending upon our denomination.


I like this man, that is cool. LOL
 
This really is under the heading of End Times/Prophesy. But there are elements of salvation and judgment beliefs, so we will see where it goes.

There is something I want to mention... we all have our thoughts on whether or not there is a future seven year "tribulation period" and when specific events will happen, but one thing is for certain, The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) follows The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah).

[attachment=0:c16dc]calendar.jpg[/attachment:c16dc]
 
vic C. said:
This really is under the heading of End Times/Prophesy. But there are elements of salvation and judgment beliefs, so we will see where it goes.

There is something I want to mention... we all have our thoughts on whether or not there is a future seven year "tribulation period" and when specific events will happen, but one thing is for certain, The Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) follows The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah).

[attachment=0:fbd50]calendar.jpg[/attachment:fbd50]
Hi Vic. I am curious. I have a certain view on that; I am wondering however where you are going with it?
Brakelite
 
Vic why should we care about that? That is OLD TESTAMENT. Jesus did away with the OT we don't need to read it any longer. Oh way he is the Messiah of the OT, I better start reading, maybe I will learn something.
 
brakelite2 said:
Hi Vic. I am curious. I have a certain view on that; I am wondering however where you are going with it?
Brakelite
Hi,

I only mentioned it because manichunter mentioned the trumpets and Day of atonement in the first post. I thought it may be possible he got the events reversed. If he had something else in mind, I'm sure he can clarify that for us. I don't want to derail this thread; that wasn't my intention. This link may explain though:

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

You have expressed a belief in the historical view, correct? Even so, it is very possible the two feasts I mentioned have much to do with the timing of His return. That's all. ;-)


Ken, you're a hoot. :lol: I like the way you answered your own question. 8-)
 
Hey everyone. I go along with Manichunter in that the OT feasts have/will find their fulfilment in the NT
The Passover was accomplished at Calvary. This was followed by the wave offering, the feast of firstfruits. Since then, God has been establishing His church. The harvest is soon to be accomplished. But I agree that before the harvest, there must needs be a time of judgement. This judgement is taking place as we speak. It is a judgement whereby God decides who are His. For when Jesus comes with His reward, the decision must have already been made.
The Feast of Trumpets was preparatory to the day of Atonement, and was a solemn call to Israel to meet their God. It announced to them that judgment was coming and they must get ready for it. It was a merciful reminder to them of the need for consecration and confession, prior to the Day of Atonement. I am sure you see the application of that to our day, for the warning of impending judgment (and the second coming), has been preached with power now since the early 19th century. I believe we are now living in the final hours of the Day of Atonement.

Which means there is only one feast remaining to be completed, once the harvest is done. Only one type that has yet to meet antitype, and that is the feast of tabernacles.
Jesus spoke prophetically of this when He said...
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.(Math 8:11).

The parallel is also seen in the destiny of the wicked. As in the Day of Atonement those who did not repent were cut of from the house of Israel, so also do we see in the above text how...
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The fulfilment of the antitype can also be seen in the parable of the wedding feast in Mathew 22...
1 ¶ And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

In Revelation 14:6,7 it reads:
6 ¶ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

(This has been taking place now with great power since the establishment of Bible societies and the disestablishment of the power of the papacy in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

(note that these words are a foremost part of the preaching of the gospel, and they pronounce that the judgement is come. This judgement, investigating the people of God, (for judgement begins in the house of God) is soon to close.

Rev 11:1 ¶ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Levit 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.

In the measurement of the temple in Rev note that the only aspect missing is the priest. This is because Christ, the High Priest, has no need of being measured. What meaning is the measuring? In the greek word metreo it may be figuratively understood as meaning to evaluate or judge. Like asking if someone 'measures up'. This can be seen elsewhere in the NT in Math 7:2, Mark 4:24, 2 Cor 10:12.

In Ezek 39:25-29 God is desirous in reestablishing a realationship with Israel. In chapters 40-42 a divine figure is seen to be measuring the temple for the purpose of restoration. This vision took place on the day of atonement. The same 3 items were measured. The temple (40:3- 43:12), the alter (42:23 - 27) and the congregation (44 - 48:35)
It is in the context of Levit 16 and Ezek that the measuring of the temple in Rev 11:1 must be understood.
John's measuring includes us, the worshippers. (Rev 5:10, 1:6, Eph 2:6, Rev 8:2,3. )
This measuring can not be a physical measurement, but a spiritual judgement.
The Day of Atonement had an atmosphere of final judgment about it, for in that day separation was to take place. The people were to afflict themselves and whoever was not afflicted on this one day was to be cut off from the house of Israel. (Levit 23:28,29)
In Revelation a distinct line of division is drawn on the basis of worship.
Those who would worship God: 11:18, 14:7, 15:4, 19:10
Those who would worship Satan: 13:4,8,12,18 14:9 - 11 16:2 19:20
(See also 2Sam8:2 for a contextual parallel).

So the measuring of the saints in Rev 11:1 has a figurative meaning leaving a powerful sense of evaluation in judgment. It has to do with dividing those who serve God and those who do not.
All of this must take place before the righteous can receive their reward and the wicked their condemnation. (Revel 11:18)

Comparing the interlude between the 6th and 7th seals, and the 6th and 7th trumpets, suggests the measuring of Rev 11:1 is related to the sealing of God's people. The measuring and sealing must be placed side by side for both portray the work of God's grace in human lives. The measuring is for deciding who is to be sealed - namely, those who belong to God and who are faithful to Him. These will be protected during the time of final tribulation.

Note. The Greek word used for temple in Rev 11:1 is 'naos', which pertains directly to the 'Most Holy Place.' This is interesting and adds further evidence to the Day of Atonement timing, as the High Priest entered the Most Holy Place only on the Day of Atonement. It appears also in Rev 14:17. This indicates the end of the ministry by Jesus the High Priest in the Most Holy Place is finished immediately prior to His coming and the reaping of the harvest.
 
vic C. said:
brakelite2 said:
Hi Vic. I am curious. I have a certain view on that; I am wondering however where you are going with it?
Brakelite
Hi,

I only mentioned it because manichunter mentioned the trumpets and Day of atonement in the first post. I thought it may be possible he got the events reversed. If he had something else in mind, I'm sure he can clarify that for us. I don't want to derail this thread; that wasn't my intention. This link may explain though:

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/l002.htm

You have expressed a belief in the historical view, correct? Even so, it is very possible the two feasts I mentioned have much to do with the timing of His return. That's all. ;-)


Ken, you're a hoot. :lol: I like the way you answered your own question. 8-)

Whats happening Vic............

I got it in the same order that you have it in. I actually did not put them in an order in the text. I only spoke about them in a sterilized way. I know that some what the horns have been blowing and the day for atonement is near. It was the necessary day a person needed to get ready for the Festival of the Wedding Feast.
 
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