Judgment seat of Christ: Wheat and tares

[RBDERRICK]

What you HAVEN'T learned RB is one of the most important lessons of all. You are not holding onto God---

Col 2:18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

I've learned about such sayings that sound really great, that are easy to spot lying against Scripture. I've also learned that them swallowing such wonderful sounding sayings, rarely aloow them to be corrected by Scripture.

Especially if they trust in such great sayings to justify them in the day of judgment, rather than by their works.

That's where you are erring brother. You are thinking that fear will cause Christians to "hold more tightly to God".

1 Peter{1:14} As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:
Scripture never errs. The only error is believers not believing Scripture as written. Especially if God's word doesn't agree with their own, so as not to obey Him.

But in reality God is ALREADY holding tightly to all of His children. If they stray he chastens and brings them back ("THY ROD and they staff they comfort me"--Psalm 23). I say once again---God will NEVER throw one of his true born-again children into the Lake of Fire, or into darkness. To believe that is to dishonor the Father. Jesus said that He will lose NONE of those whom the Father has given unto him.

Mat 6:7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

I only take exception to your desire to "threaten" the sheep into conformity.

2. Focus on the issue being discussed. Do not direct your comments toward the member and make the discussion personal if you disagree with what's been said.

A failed argument usually begins with making things personal, especially by personal accusations.

I don't care what anyone here does nor how they live, which is between them and God, but only what they teach and how they argue it.

I am not a proselytizer, nor so foolish as to think anyone will heed any man threats, if not the warnings of Scripture.

Luk 16:31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Jesus threatened the Pharisees and the religious leaders, but he didn't threaten believers.

God doesn't threaten sheep nor goats, but only warns them all like. And He knows the sheep and the goats by obeying His warnings, or refusing them by disobedience.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You lumped together those being chastised & not being chastised by God, as being all "Believers".

True. Only those believers naming Christ. Not believers in other gods and no god.

There is no such animal as "believer" that God does not chastise accordingly.

Jas 2:19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
The devils are not animals, but they are believers in God. Bad ones with disobedience.
Isa 14:12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
That's why they are called believing devils, because they sinned with the first believer to ever rebel against God, Lucifer the devil.

Only because believers do not believe Scripture as written, do they teach against what is plainly written in Scripture of truth. That is bad believing and bad teaching.

The whole refusal to separate good and bad believers in God, is only to reject the warning of Christ's believers being judged by their works, as being good or bad.

It's the error of justification by faith alone, so that any and all that believe in Christ, are saved and justified by Christ. Without good or bad works having anything to do with it.

Heb 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
This is yet another warning to all believers naming Christ, that we too will have our works judged between good and evil, so that our works also have to do with being justified or unjustified with God.

RBDERRICK said:
Heb 12:8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
"Here, Paul is speaking to all believers. Believers that be without His chastisement, are bad believers that refuse it by disobedience."



If you are not being chastised by God you are not a "Believer"

True. Only the bad disobedient believers are chastened with the world to repent, and be reconciled to God by their confession of faith in Jesus Christ.

Believers must obey God to be sons of God, rather than as believers only naming His name, just as the devils did on earth in Jesus' day:

Luk 8:28When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

The believing devils show no shame in confessing Jesus Christ the Son of God. Neither do any other disobedient ungodly believers, that openly shame His name:

Heb 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:5If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

The only sons God recieves by Jesus Christ, are believers obeying Him.

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The chasticement and scourging of God's obedient sons, are the trials and tribulations of faith He walks them through, showing them how to obey in all things, even as the Father did with His Son Jesus Christ on earth.

Dsiobedient believers naming Christ without obedience, are chastened with the world to repent, before the grave.

 

[RBDERRICK]

There is no "good" Believer , there is no "bad" Believer there are only Redeemed Believers still clothed in sinful flesh

No flesh is sinful but only natural and mortal. No body is responsible for men sinning, but only souls sinning with their bodies.

Redeemed Believers still clothed in sinful flesh.

This is not Scripture, but the purpose of the corruption is fairly clear.

Are you saying all believers are still sinners doing bad deeds with the flesh?

I.e. There is no good believers, but only bad believers? Or, only unbelievers are bad when doing works of the flesh, but no believer is bad when doing the same?

Mar 10:18
And Jesus said unto him..... there is none good but one, that is, God.

Since you apply this in context of believers being good or bad, then all believers and men alike on earth are no good?

And since Jesus applied it to Himself, is He saying He also was no good?

 

[RBDERRICK]

You are obviously deeply troubled with the fate of a disobedient .

Not me. That's God's trouble, because it's His judgment and warning.

How did such personal vexing come to your heart concerning a disobedient ?

The only vexing I have is with bad teaching of disobedience to the body of Christ, without judgment of works.

I'm not vexed by any bad believer disobeying Christ, unless if it is me for my own soul's sake.

Is it a disobedient friend or family member you have personally witnessed refusing chastisement that has you so concerned for their fate ?

The only ones I care about in my household, is children obeying or disobeying me and my wife. Whether they repent of sins and trespasses to please God, is their choice.

Whether they repent to keep my rules to live in our home, is also their choice. At least when they are of age to work on their own.

A failed argument begins with getting personal about it.

2. Focus on the issue being discussed. Do not direct your comments toward the member and make the discussion personal if you disagree with what's been said.

 

[Fish153]

Not me. That's God's trouble, because it's His judgment and warning.


The only vexing I have is with bad teaching of disobedience to the body of Christ, without judgment of works.

I'm not vexed by any bad believer disobeying Christ, unless if it is me for my own soul's sake.




The only ones I care about in my household, is children obeying or disobeying me and my wife. Whether they repent of sins and trespasses to please God, is their choice.

Whether they repent to keep my rules to live in our home, is also their choice. At least when they are of age to work on their own.

A failed argument begins with getting personal about it.

2. Focus on the issue being discussed. Do not direct your comments toward the member and make the discussion personal if you disagree with what's been said.

RBDERRICK----- One last post on this. Please read Isaiah 30. Note that it begins "Woe unto the rebellious children...." but at verse 18 what does the Lord say? "And therefore will the Lord wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the Lord is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him". (Is. 30:18).

What you are doing is MIXING two Covenants. The First Covenant, the LAW was based on what we DO. On OUR OBEDIENCE to it's commandments. But the Second Covenant is based on what Jesus has DONE. "It is Finished". What we COULD NOT DO---GOD DID. You are talking as though because someone is disobedient God gives up on them or disowns them until they repent. Nothing could be further from the truth. In Luke 15 the son was "dead"---in his works and actions---he was not dead to his Father. What did the Father do? HE WAITED UNTIL HE COULD BE GRACIOUS TO HIS SON (Isaiah 30:18). You are mixing two covenants and combining Law and Grace just as the teachers to the Galatians were doing----and Paul sternly rebuked them! Please reconsider what you are teaching.

 

[RBDERRICK]

RBDERRICK----- One last post on this. Please read Isaiah 30. Note that it begins "Woe unto the rebellious children...." but at verse 18 what does the Lord say? "And therefore will the Lord wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the Lord is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him". (Is. 30:18).

If the rebellious believers repent, to become good obedient believers, then good. If not, then bad.

What you are doing is MIXING two Covenants. The First Covenant, the LAW was based on what we DO. On OUR OBEDIENCE to it's commandments.

There is no covenant of God and His Christ for rebellious believers.

Other than I suppose, the ongoing covenant not to flood the whole earth with water again.

But the Second Covenant is based on what Jesus has DONE. "It is Finished".

There is no covenant of Christ by the cross alone, but by His death, burial, and resurrection.

The finished work of Jesus on the cross, was perfect obedience to the Father, to submit Himself entirely into the hands of sinners. The commmand to do so was in whole meekness, with no complaint or defence. That perfect work had brought all sinners guilty of His shed blood at the cross.

Only His enemies that wholly repent in unconditional surrender at His resurrection, are fully forgiven of their past enmity, and brought into His kingdom by newbirth of God.

All sinners are condemned at the cross, and all that repent are redeemed by His resurrection.

No sinner is made righteous at the cross, and only them that repent are begotten of God with His resurrection.

What we COULD NOT DO---GOD DID.

If you mean God imputed sin of blapshemy to His own Son, and had Him killed by execution of law, then that is the unbelief of decieved sinners at the cross:

Isa 53:4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

And the accusation of the wicked hands that slew Him then, and them believing it today:

1Co 12:3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

As well as the abominable gospel of anyone believing they are imputed righteousness by crucifying the Son on a cross, while the Son was imputed with blapshemy by the Father.

Gal 1:8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You are talking as though because someone is disobedient God gives up on them or disowns them until they repent.

No. You are. The second time, after correcting you. It's the habit of a failed teacher, to either ignore or change the arguments of others into something else.

9. Do not speak for other members by declaring what they believe or make leaps and draw your own conclusions. Let them state their own beliefs and arguments.

Nothing could be further from the truth. In Luke 15 the son was "dead"---in his works and actions---he was not dead to his Father.

This my son was dead.

All sinners are dead to God by dead works. All that repent of dead works for Jesus, are alive to God with good works.

Now he is alive.

What did the Father do? HE WAITED UNTIL HE COULD BE GRACIOUS TO HIS SON (Isaiah 30:18).

By repentance.

The true God does not wait patiently, until He decides to be gracious to the rebllious, and invite them back home with their rebellion. Foolish mothers of the world may do so, but not the righteous Father and Judge of heaven and earth.

And the god of this world is more than glad to fill his kingdom with as many rebels like him.

You are mixing two covenants and combining Law and Grace

There is no grace nor holiness without law, but only lawless ungodliness.

Ecc 8:11Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

Mercy without repentance is acquittal of the guilty.

Job 10:14If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
Nah 1:3The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked:
Having no fear of the righteous judgement of the Lord, is having no fear of the Lord.

Psa 36:1The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.
Anyone declaring their transgressions by their own faith alone, and they shall not be judged righteously by their works, reject the fear of the Lord unto godly living.

2Ti 2:16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

just as the teachers to the Galatians were doing--

9. Do not speak for other members by declaring what they believe or make leaps and draw your own conclusions. Let them state their own beliefs and arguments.

Especially when someone doesn't understand what they are accused of teaching. The justifiers by law were not combining law and grace, but subjecting grace to a work of law.

No work of law or faith is necessary to be forgiven of sins, whether flesh circumcision, water baptism, communion, sabbath keeping, etc...

Good works only come by grace with repentance, and are necessary to be maintained and justified by Christ through His faith.

The faith of any person disobeying Christ, whether bad believer or unbeliever in Christ, is not the justifying faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of the children of disobedience are in themselves alone, or in gods and christs, other than in Jesus Christ.

Please reconsider what you are teaching.

I do all the time to ensure it is only Scripture, and not my own will nor mind. Which I'll never reconsider teaching to please someone else's conscience.

Reconsider teaching something else, than what I am teaching. Or, at least stop imputing something else to what I am teaching, without asking me to clarify.

5. Assume that other members have done their best to understand the argument(s) being presented. If you think a member has not understood what they are responding to, or if you are unsure what another member means by what they have posted, ask questions for clarification.

Last warning.