Will This Selfish Man GoTo Heaven Or Hell

[Lewis]

This is a true story, about 6 years ago, on my church choir that I am still on, we had a murder. One of my choir members who had separated from her husband who was also a member of my church, and in a wheelchair from a accident, killed my choir member and the 2 kids a girl and a boy and then he killed himself. Mike felt that because he could not get around anymore like he use to, because he was to be in his wheelchair for life, was losing his grip on his family. He could not bear the thought of his wife being in the arms of another man, even though she was not doing that yet. So one day he was watching the children at his house, and she got off from work and went to pick up her daughter who was his and hers, and the boy was hers from another relationship, but anyway he shot and killed the kids, and when she walked through the door he shot her in the head, and then shot himself dead. That was a hurting thing for the church, being that they both and the kids were members. We had the mother and the kids funeral at the church one day, and had to have his funeral all by himself the next day. Now this man killed innocent people and then killed himself so he could not ask God for forgiveness, so does this ( Born Again Christian ) get heaven or hell ? I stayed angry at Mike for a long time, I think that I am still angry at him. I just want to hear what you all have to say about that question. It is the age old question does a born again Christian who commits suicide go to heaven ?

 

[Pebbles]

Mine probably isn't an answer your looking for as I'm not a christian and this is strictly directed at christian biblical interpretation.

I've been suicidal in the past it'd be imposable today to empathize with my previous self I can't even remember what I was thinking it was so alien...
Basically Your very ill and your trapped in a very dark place everything around you is bleak hollow and dead even your loved ones the only sensation you have is this pain that you can't see ever ending. I remember thinking that where I was, was a billion times worse than any hell conceivable.

If you think that the brain can be diseased and fall into dysfunction like any other organ, Suicide is death from a disease spiraling out of control and swallowing up the entirety of the individual and they loose there identity.

 

[jasoncran]

lewis. we wont know whether he made it or not. as we are on this side of heaven.

i do think he commited murder as that was motivated by jealously.

only you can forgive him as the hurt is there. i suggest that you forgive him and not concern yourself too much with his fate. as you cant be forgiven till you let him go and he isnt worth hell being your home.

if you see him in heaven well then praise the lord , if not praise the lord you made it!

 

[Lewis]

Yes Jason I have to forgive him. But my question is for any Christian that commits suicide. First of all, that is murder and you can't ask God to forgive you because you have killed yourself. And does thee ole once a Christian always a Christian apply here ? Now as far as the Bible goes no one who commits murder shall inherit heaven, but if you are saved and you ask God to forgive you and you mean it from the heart, He will. But you have to ask for forgiveness first, now if you have killed yourself, how can you ask. Now some people will say God forgive me for what I am about to do. I will tell you now that God will not honor that.

 

[jasoncran]

well if you jump of a bridge you have time to repent. you die till the fall is stopped. and what of also when that co poising is used and you cant move but still have enough time to think and repent.

in some cases yes the person cant repent its too quick other times they do it and realise oops but not enough time is there to stop themselves.

 

[Lloyd]

It's a horrible act this man has done. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian, calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian, your life and your actions will prove your fruit and whether you follow Christ or not.

It's not for me to judge, for we only have one judge, but anyone who thinks they can do whatever they like and just say they are a 'born again Christian' need to think again and live the life Christ called you to live.

Just my 2.

 

[Lewis]

well if you jump of a bridge you have time to repent. you die till the fall is stopped. and what of also when that co poising is used and you cant move but still have enough time to think and repent.

in some cases yes the person cant repent its too quick other times they do it and realise oops but not enough time is there to stop themselves.

Jason I don't think you can be forgiven when you jump off a bridge premeditating your own murder. Because when you hit the ground and you die, it is to late to ask God to forgive you, for killing yourself. I don't think that you can say God forgive me because I am getting ready to jump off the Empire State Building. You have to be alive after the fact to be forgiven, and be able to ask for it.

 

[jasoncran]

Jason I don't think you can be forgiven when you jump off a bridge premeditating your own murder. Because when you hit the ground and you die, it is to late to ask God to forgive you, for killing yourself. I don't think that you can say God forgive me because I am getting ready to jump off the Empire State Building. You have to be alive after the fact to be forgiven, and be able to ask for it.

after you already jump that is what i mean. you have time then to repent.

its possible otherwise why then do we bother with prison ministries!

 

[Lewis]

Lloyd wrote
It's a horrible act this man has done.

Yes Lloyd that was a bad thing and all 3 of those caskets were right in front of the choir loft. People came that did not even know them, that is how touching it was.
Mike started developing mental problems because he felt worthless because he was in a wheel chair for life. He had this mentality if I can't have you nobody can have you, and goes for the kids too.

 

[jasoncran]

sadly he let the root of bitterness take hold.

 

[Lewis]

after you already jump that is what i mean. you have time then to repent.

its possible otherwise why then do we bother with prison ministries!

Jason the act has to be completed for you to ask to be forgiven.

 

[Alabaster]

While suicide is a heinous act, so is any other sin in God's opinion. Anyone who is a true believer in Jesus Christ and suffers a serious break from reality or suffers deep depression that affects his normally good judgment will not find God dishonouring His own word.

When we are first saved, we are saved for all time--sins past, present and future. Emotional or mental illness of a Christian doesn't negate salvation.

On another note: Every one of us will die and see God with some sin on us. We don't remember every single act of sin we have ever committed, but we can be sure that Jesus' blood covers it all!

 

[Mike]

This may not be the case 100% of the time, but it's my opinion that there is a chemical imbalance in the person that actually takes his own life along with others. Especially for a Christian who knows the sanctity of his life, it seems there has to be a disconnect somewhere.

Suicide is an extreme disobedience to God. But our salvation has never been about our ability to obey. It's been about salvation through faith.

Ephesians 2
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29238">8</sup> For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29239">9</sup> not by works, so that no one can boast."

I don't know what was in the heart of this person who snapped, but God does and He will judge him. Lewis, I completely understand your feelings toward him. If he carried out this heinous act with a clear mind and intent, who's to say? But, I would think he was not mentally right to do something like that. It's horrible.

 

[lamplady]

This is a true story, about 6 years ago, on my church choir that I am still on, we had a murder. One of my choir members who had separated from her husband who was also a member of my church, and in a wheelchair from a accident, killed my choir member and the 2 kids a girl and a boy and then he killed himself. Mike felt that because he could not get around anymore like he use to, because he was to be in his wheelchair for life, was losing his grip on his family. He could not bear the thought of his wife being in the arms of another man, even though she was not doing that yet. So one day he was watching the children at his house, and she got off from work and went to pick up her daughter who was his and hers, and the boy was hers from another relationship, but anyway he shot and killed the kids, and when she walked through the door he shot her in the head, and then shot himself dead. That was a hurting thing for the church, being that they both and the kids were members. We had the mother and the kids funeral at the church one day, and had to have his funeral all by himself the next day. Now this man killed innocent people and then killed himself so he could not ask God for forgiveness, so does this ( Born Again Christian ) get heaven or hell ? I stayed angry at Mike for a long time, I think that I am still angry at him. I just want to hear what you all have to say about that question. It is the age old question does a born again Christian who commits suicide go to heaven ?

First let me say I'm sorry about your loss and I will pray for you as you're still angry ...

Yes it sounds as though you're still grieving.

Even though this is a million times not as bad as your situation I think it's similar in that I had this person for what seemed this somebody's entire life was mean. Towards the end I know the person visited Church. It's kind of galling to know that someone who has hurt somebody so much may still reap rewards in heaven - the same reward as you who perhaps has done no wrong to anything.

But that is the way it is because that is how forgiving our God is because to him all sins are the same. And we must forgive likewise.

I'm not sure if I buy into suicide being against God but I'm not going to argue the point now. I will say we really can't judge. Only God knows his heart and if he said a prayer to God before he pulled the trigger and God heard him then yes he may very well be saved.

Remember good works, going to church etc doesn't automatically mean you're saved.

It's literally by God's grace.

 

[stovebolts]

I know that Jesus says if you have an issue with your brother, make mends with your brother before going to the Alter... How can one make mends with their brother when they've killed them dead, and how can one go to the alter if one is dead?

It sounds like this man was already living in hell, and he even brought hell to earth in his wake... you will know them by their fruits.

I guess I'm glad I'm not God... and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. Personally, I can't wrap my mind around cheap grace.

 

[Lloyd]

Yes Lloyd that was a bad thing and all 3 of those caskets were right in front of the choir loft. People came that did not even know them, that is how touching it was.
Mike started developing mental problems because he felt worthless because he was in a wheel chair for life. He had this mentality if I can't have you nobody can have you, and goes for the kids too.

Awful - absolutley devastating. I don't envy anyone who feels so low they have to resort to such things, the mental torment must be unbearable, but taking the lives of the kids and the wife is well, I dont know... can't really give it a word. All we can do is trust and praise God, as through all this, he is the only one who can make the just decision.

 

[Lewis]

Lloyd Wrote
All we can do is trust and praise God, as through all this, he is the only one who can make the just decision.

Well said.

 

[Adstar]

This is a true story, about 6 years ago, on my church choir that I am still on, we had a murder. One of my choir members who had separated from her husband who was also a member of my church, and in a wheelchair from a accident, killed my choir member and the 2 kids a girl and a boy and then he killed himself. Mike felt that because he could not get around anymore like he use to, because he was to be in his wheelchair for life, was losing his grip on his family. He could not bear the thought of his wife being in the arms of another man, even though she was not doing that yet. So one day he was watching the children at his house, and she got off from work and went to pick up her daughter who was his and hers, and the boy was hers from another relationship, but anyway he shot and killed the kids, and when she walked through the door he shot her in the head, and then shot himself dead. That was a hurting thing for the church, being that they both and the kids were members. We had the mother and the kids funeral at the church one day, and had to have his funeral all by himself the next day. Now this man killed innocent people and then killed himself so he could not ask God for forgiveness, so does this ( Born Again Christian ) get heaven or hell ? I stayed angry at Mike for a long time, I think that I am still angry at him. I just want to hear what you all have to say about that question. It is the age old question does a born again Christian who commits suicide go to heaven ?

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->Well Jesus said there was only one unforgivable sin, Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

But wilful sin also breaks the salvational bond. I do not know the intent or the thoughts of the one who murdered. If He murdered them wilfully with no regret then i would doubt he will be in eternity with Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Alabaster]

Everyone who sins, even those in Christ, do so by the power of their will. Just because the sin that is committed is murder and suicide doesn't mean that time is necessary for forgiveness. If the man knew Christ, Jesus' blood covers it all.

People kill every day, sadly, throughout the world and some of those people are believers who have a disease that takes over their sensibilities and right thinking. It is called depression, or has other names signifying mental disorder. If a saved person with Cancer will see Jesus upon death, then so will a saved depressed person who commits suicide, and that person will be received into the comforting arms of Jesus Christ who is familiar with all of the torment that person experienced.

Will he receive rewards in heaven? If he truly knew Christ, yes, but he will lose them also.

 

[Lewis]

If Someone Commits Suicide, Can They Still Go To Heaven?

What the Bible Says About Suicide

Will Suicide Send You Yo Hell
Will Suicide send someone to hell?