Will We Go To Heaven As Soon As We Die?

[Webb]

The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch, Acts 11:26

 

[Butch5]

Where does anyone see any teaching in the Scriptures that Christians go to heaven?

 

[Hitch]

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[Butch5]

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Where does this say Christians go to heaven?

 

[icee]

Where does anyone see any teaching in the Scriptures that Christians go to heaven?

Matthew 8:11 HCSB

11 I tell you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Butch5]

Matthew 8:11 HCSB

11 I tell you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

The kingdom "OF" heaven, not "IN" heaven. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, will receive the inheritance which is the land God promised them.

 

[rrowell]

i am sorry if i have misunderstood you but do you not teach the doctrine that when you die you either go to a place of comfort, or a place of torment? It is news to me, that you believe the place of comfort is not Heaven, and the place of torment is not Hell, because you have not revealed this to me, nor have you said this in a post. How then am i suppose to know that a place of comfort in not Heaven to you, unless you tell me it is not Heaven to you. and a place of torment is not Hell to you, is this True, that you believe these things?

You see to me, a place of comfort means Heaven, and a place of torment means Hell. Do you see then how it would be very easy for a person to think that is what you were referring to? Simply telling me otherwise would have been nice to know, before saying that if i continue to ignore this you are done debating with me. How can i ignore something that i did not know existed. i had no ideal that you think a place of comfort is NOT Heaven, or that place of torment is NOT Hell, i did not know this, because i was not told this until this very post. And i do apologize for offending you if in some way i have done so

The problems arise from the Hebrew Sheol and Greek Hades and tartarus translated to "Hell" in English.

Example verse:

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


2 Peter 2:4 (TR)
4. ει γαρ ο θεος αγγελων αμαρτησαντων ουκ εφεισατο αλλα σειραις ζοφου ταρταρωσας παρεδωκεν εις κρισιν τετηρημενους

ταρταρωσας should have been translated "the grave"

ταρταρωσας : Provide the best (or a better) single-word interlinear translation: (the grave)


The place of the departed spirits is another world called Hades/Sheol that contains Paradise and Tartarus divided by a great gulf, the good go to Paradise (or bosom of Abraham) and the bad tartarus (where the Rich Man is).

the Righteous man when he dies goes to the hadean world to Paradise, the wicked to tartarus.

If what you say is true, and the righteous go to to heaven, then on the day of final judgment they would have to leave heaven to be judged.

All are in Hades awaiting final Judgment, Good and Bad. after final Judgment awaits Heaven, and Hell (Gehenna).

(Gehenna, the only Greek word that should have been translated Hell)

 

[rrowell]

Where does this say Christians go to heaven?

John 14:2-3 (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where did he go when he left? to some other place? or the right hand of God (Heaven)? The Fathers house will not be on earth.

 

[iLOVE]

Matthew 27

New International Version (NIV)


50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!â€

Yes we immediately go to heaven.

 

[Webb]

No, we go to hades to await the resurrection and judgment.

 

[Butch5]

John 14:2-3 (KJV)
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where did he go when he left? to some other place? or the right hand of God (Heaven)? The Fathers house will not be on earth.

My Father's house is the temple. Jesus called the temple My Father's house. That's how the apostles would have understood it. Additionally, if you look at the description of the temple you're find that there were many chambers built into the temple for the priests. Believers will be priests in hte kingdom, thus they will serve in the temple.

On another note, the verse you posted says, I come again that where I am you may be also. He didn't say you'll come to where I am that you may be where I am. He's coming back to the apostles. That's what He said. When the kingdom is initiated we see the Holy city, New Jerusalem, descending out of heaven to the earth. The Revelation says that God will dwell with men.


There should be red flags going up when the only Scriptures present don't state that Christians go to heaven but rather that idea is being inferred from the passages presented.

 

[Butch5]

Matthew 27

New International Version (NIV)


50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!â€

Yes we immediately go to heaven.

I don't see anything in this passage that speaks of Christians going to heaven.

 

[iLOVE]

I don't see anything in this passage that speaks of Christians going to heaven.

More proof for you.
"Your father Abraham was very happy that he would see the day when I came. He saw that day and was happy." The Jews said to Jesus, "What? You have never seen Abraham! You are not even 50 years old!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth. Before Abraham was born, I AM." When Jesus said this, the people picked up rocks to throw at him. But Jesus hid, and then he left the temple area. John 8:57-59

 

[n2thelight]

I challenge any reader to provide any Biblical evidence that the "spirit" of a human person is an entity which carries, contains, or otherwise includes "consciousness". This is a platonic idea that the writers of Scripture never believed (I suggest). I will brashly predict that no Scriptural text will be provided that shows the human "spirit" to bear consciousness that does not beg the question - assume the truth of the very conclusion at issue.

If the spirit indeed goes to Heaven at death, and if that spririt carries our consciousness, thoughts, capabilities to communicate, etc., then Paul had a pretty impoverished sense of what it means to be "made alive" when he wrote as follows in 1 Cor 15:22-23:

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him"

I think that this is basically the coup de grace for the view that the dead go directly to heaven. The only way to reconcile this text with such a view is to claim that to be "made alive" really boils down to wrapping a conscious spirit, that is in full flower of experience and interaction in heaven, in a new body. That simply does not work with any reasonable construal of what it means to be made alive. And it certainly does not jive with the majestic flavour of the entire 1 Corinthians 15 text which simply drips with a sense of drama and hopeful anticipation.

If all Paul is really saying in verses 22 and 23 is that man's already fully conscious and functioning "spirit" gets girdled in a flesh house, this seems more like "putting on a pair of pants" than being "made alive". Does this seem consistent with the majesty of this whole passage? Hardly. Paul means what he says - we are made alive in every sense of the word at Jesus' return and not before. I suggest that the only present occupant of "Heaven" is the Lord Jesus Christ.

I suggest that the 2 Cor 5:8 ("We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.")is Paul's account of what he will experience - it is not a statement of what is objectively and factually the case. Not to mention vic's argument that I cannot presently recall. It is not a stretch to suggest that Paul is expressing what the believer will experience - an immediate transition to God's presence - even though the weight of Scriptural shows that this is not what happens in a 3rd person objective sense. People speak in this sense all the time - "to put my exhausted head on the pillow at midnight is to wake to the chirping birds and streaming sunshine at 7 am".

All souls return to God at death,saved and unsaved alike....


Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."

The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body.

When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs for this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."

Then when? After the silver cord breaks, the mind is brain dead, and the body loses its life. Then shall the body "dust" return to the earth as it was, before it was formed into food, and entered your mouth as food to make your flesh body healthy.

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

When man gets to the point of not being able to understand this promise that at death the soul goes immediately to be with the Father, then he form his religious man made ideas, and sidesteps what God's Word teaches. Friend, it takes only a short time for the body to decay, and there is no body there to resurrect. The body returns to the dirt that it is made of, and the soul departs from that body never to return to it.

God creates the flesh body for your soul to occupy, and He places your spirit within your soul. That is what gives your soul its identity. Then just as God gave it for a brief time, He will take your soul back to Himself, when the flesh body stops having life.

I Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

When we look up in the Strong's numbered concordance and Greek dictionary, we see that this is the only place in the whole Bible that this Greek word "alive" is used in this form. It is # 2227 in Strong Greek dictionary. "zoopoieo, dzo-op-oy-eh'-o; to vitalize, to make alive, to give life." This does not mean to be given eternal life, but it does mean that Christ revives all. Remember in Luke 16 in the parable where the rich man was lying in torment and asked that God would send Lazarus, the poor man, to warn his brothers of the judgment. Was he soul sleeping? Of course not, he could see Abraham and he could see Lazarus being taken to the bosom of Abraham, and he knew exactly what was going on. Why? Because he was there across the gulf that separated him from Abraham and God.

All souls are made alive for some are going to eternal rewards, while others are going to paradise also to be held for the day that they will be sentenced, tested, to perish. If soul sleep was true then that rich man that wanted the favor from Lazarus would not have been going through such torment while in the place of holding after his death. He could see the throne across the gulf and he knew that he missed it all, and there was nothing that he could do about it. He could see those that overcame, and the rich man knew that he had failed.

Christ makes all alive, though not eternally for the sinners that have not repented, but alive until the the time of judgment. This documents that there is no such thing as soul sleep.

 

[rrowell]

My Father's house is the temple. Jesus called the temple My Father's house. That's how the apostles would have understood it. Additionally, if you look at the description of the temple you're find that there were many chambers built into the temple for the priests. Believers will be priests in hte kingdom, thus they will serve in the temple.

On another note, the verse you posted says, I come again that where I am you may be also. He didn't say you'll come to where I am that you may be where I am. He's coming back to the apostles. That's what He said. When the kingdom is initiated we see the Holy city, New Jerusalem, descending out of heaven to the earth. The Revelation says that God will dwell with men.


There should be red flags going up when the only Scriptures present don't state that Christians go to heaven but rather that idea is being inferred from the passages presented.

Well then, where do I put my treasures?
Matthew 6:20 (KJV)
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

We do not know where heaven will be, it is a metaphorical description of a place beyond comprehension, just like but exactly opposite of "hell"

Heaven is a metaphorical place prepared for the believer after final judgment.

 

[DiscipleDave]

i have specifically written an article on where you go after death, with many Scriptural references please check it out and tell me what you think of it.

DiscipleDave.com/Whereafterdeath.html

^i^

 

[Butch5]

More proof for you.
"Your father Abraham was very happy that he would see the day when I came. He saw that day and was happy." The Jews said to Jesus, "What? You have never seen Abraham! You are not even 50 years old!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth. Before Abraham was born, I AM." When Jesus said this, the people picked up rocks to throw at him. But Jesus hid, and then he left the temple area. John 8:57-59

How exactly do you see this as proof, it says nothing about Christians or heaven?

 

[Butch5]

Well then, where do I put my treasures?

Matthew 6:20 (KJV)
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

We do not know where heaven will be, it is a metaphorical description of a place beyond comprehension, just like but exactly opposite of "hell"

Heaven is a metaphorical place prepared for the believer after final judgment.

A metaphorical place? Hell certainly isn't. It was the Greek philosophers who envisioned ascending through different spheres to finally arrive at the Pleroma "fullness". The Gnostics took this Greek philosophy and mixed it with Christian teachings. It was this mix of teaching that became known as Gnosticism. It was the Gnostics who claimed to be Christians that taught that upon death the Christian would ascend through the heavens to join the father/mother. The earliest Christians fought and defeated the Gnostic doctrines and kept them out of the church, however, as more and more pagans began to become Christians they brought with them their pagan beliefs and the idea of ascending to heaven eventually entered the church. In the beginning it was not so.

The apostles and the earliest Christians taught that man would live on a renewed earth with Christ and God.

 

[rrowell]

A metaphorical place? Hell certainly isn't. It was the Greek philosophers who envisioned ascending through different spheres to finally arrive at the Pleroma "fullness". The Gnostics took this Greek philosophy and mixed it with Christian teachings. It was this mix of teaching that became known as Gnosticism. It was the Gnostics who claimed to be Christians that taught that upon death the Christian would ascend through the heavens to join the father/mother. The earliest Christians fought and defeated the Gnostic doctrines and kept them out of the church, however, as more and more pagans began to become Christians they brought with them their pagan beliefs and the idea of ascending to heaven eventually entered the church. In the beginning it was not so.

The apostles and the earliest Christians taught that man would live on a renewed earth with Christ and God.

I'll quote myself again:

"We do not know where heaven will be, it is a metaphorical description of a place beyond comprehension, just like but exactly opposite of "hell"

Heaven is a metaphorical place prepared for the believer after final judgment."

Heaven and Hell are metaphorical names that describes a place that for example "heaven" it is beyond the comprehension, or no word for how much glory, joy, happiness etc...

"hell" being the opposite, a metaphorical name that describes a place with so much torment it is beyond human comprehension to know how much pain, sorrow, agony etc...

They are real places, we do not know where those places will be, but we all surly will know where one or the other is the day of final judgment.

The Apostles never told where "heaven" or "hell" was, just like they never told "where" the the Hadean world is, but that they are...

Be careful with what is literal and what is symbolic in Revelations, I believe there is no man today that can completely understand it.

 

[Butch5]

I'll quote myself again:

"We do not know where heaven will be, it is a metaphorical description of a place beyond comprehension, just like but exactly opposite of "hell"

Heaven is a metaphorical place prepared for the believer after final judgment."

Heaven and Hell are metaphorical names that describes a place that for example "heaven" it is beyond the comprehension, or no word for how much glory, joy, happiness etc...

"hell" being the opposite, a metaphorical name that describes a place with so much torment it is beyond human comprehension to know how much pain, sorrow, agony etc...

They are real places, we do not know where those places will be, but we all surly will know where one or the other is the day of final judgment.

The Apostles never told where "heaven" or "hell" was, just like they never told "where" the the Hadean world is, but that they are...

Be careful with what is literal and what is symbolic in Revelations, I believe there is no man today that can completely understand it.

I really don't see your justification for calling them Metaphorical. Hell, Genhenna, certainly is "not" metaphorical and we do know exaclty where it will be.

22 For as the new heaven and the new earth, which I make, remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name continue.
23 And it shall come to pass from month to month, and from sabbath to sabbath, that all flesh shall come to worship before me in Jerusalem, saith the Lord.​

24 And they shall go forth, and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched; and they shall be a spectacle to all flesh. (Isa 66:22-24 LXE)

Jesus quotes this passage in the Gospels.

47 "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire--​

48 "where`Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.' (Mar 9:47-48 NKJ)

The words translated "hell fire" above is the Greek word Gehenna.