SputnikBoy said:
Solo said:
We will retain memories in an immortal, incorruptible body as Jesus'
Lazarus and the rich man was not a parable but a truth. Abraham held Lazarus in his bosom while the rich man was in torment.
Many who deny eternal damnation deny this record of Jesus as true.
Sputnik: Now c'mon, Solo, get real. The very illustrative NATURE of the Rich Man & Lazarus should dictate to you that it's a parable. Not only that, it's a parable that has little to do with the state of the dead anyway. Not only THAT, one needs to be aware of the audience Jesus was addressing. Hint: Not us! One's condition after death is NOT the message of the illustration. And ...eternal damnation refers to the fact that the individual is 'eternally dead'.
Your sputtering Sputnik. I am as real as you will ever know. Jesus never lies and all that he teaches can be taken into account as affecting the lives of all who read the Word of God. If you don't believe this, then you have deep problems. Jesus is teaching his disciples through the story of the rich man and Lazarus. If you are not able to be taught anything from Jesus' teachings then you have more problems than I originally suspected. I see that you would rather believe in the Jehovah Witness doctrine that teaches that there is no eternal damnation for the unbelieving, only a cessation of living. Jesus never lies, and if the story that he tells in Luke 16 is not true of the after life as you believe, then you are calling Jesus a liar.
If this is a parable, as you state, what portion of the parable is not profitable for us today?
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. 18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:14-31
Truths of Luke 16:
Men do not cease to exist after the physical death.
A man's consciousness is retained after death, and memory remains.
Each one that is known in the physical life is known after death, and those that we have not met in the physical life are known after death.
Each person knows the history and state of the others after death.
Each person goes to a place of comfort if they were righteous after death, and a place of torment if they were unrighteous after death.
Angels accompany the righteous to their blissful rest.
Saints are not wanting after death while unrepentant sinners are not satisfied and are wanting.
The unrepentant sinners in torment only ask for a small amount of comfort in their predicament obviously knowing full well that they deserve the state that they are in.
A deep and wide gulf separates the place of the unrighteous from the place of the righteous after death.
The unrepentant sinners do not want friends or family to end up where they are.
Those that reject the truth as one who resurrects from the dead will not be believed any more than that which Moses and the Prophets taught.
God does not look at a man's wealth or poverty as a means of determining the end existence of those after death.
