Winds! Forget the Clean & Unclean, huh?

[smaller]

The Time/Frame! And which are the unclean & clean seen here also?

(and what is it that executed the above post ones! Of Isa. 66:15-17! But note the next verse of the ones who are teaching falsehoods!)

(me, or you or anyone else!)

[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

--Elijah

'me or you or anyone else' means YES?

 

[Nathan]

Nate, 'i' agree with this above post. My question is, which are you helping? Is it Christ or satan?? Remember that once the striving on ones conscience of Gen. 6:3 came about, it was at each rejection that it was made [easier to do so!]
Psalms 19:13

--Elijah

It seems to me that you assume I am helping the one who you do not think I should be. Why ask me that question? We ALL need to remember that when we harden our hearts to the call of God it leads to a easy conscience about what we 'profess' to know.

1Cr 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

1Cr 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

1Cr 10:14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

The question we should all ask ourselves is; "What is Idolatry?".

 

[Nathan]

OK: Elijah here: I have been on this site for many years (on/off/on) I have been a Born Again Christian for well past perhaps most of you'ins age. So what has been stated about 'Clean & Unclean' having an dual [SPIRITUAL] Meaning surely should not be UNKOWN by me! I have posted up Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 + Gen. 41:32 so many times that 'i' am wondering about ones sincerity?

Now with that being said, if one is a sincere Christian it surely is their moral obligation to find where 'i' had ever in my long life EVER EVEN HINTED that most Bible Truths do not have a SECOND APPLICATION???
OK: One more 'SPIRITUAL' application!

But yet you do not give a yes or no answer to my sincere question.

Is it a sin/disobedience to eat 'unclean' foods, of the physical type?

If your answer is yes, then would you not agree that a follower of Christ could not continue to eat 'unclean' foods of the physical type?

 

[coffeeelover]

Will one suffer eternal torment for eating bacon?


I think a a more important debate is what would win in a fight. A unicorn or a fire breathing dragon?

 

[Nathan]

The Time/Frame! And which are the unclean & clean seen here also?

2Thes.2

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

[7] For the mystery of iniquity [doth already work:] only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

(and what is it that executed the above post ones! Of Isa. 66:15-17! But note the next verse of the ones who are teaching falsehoods!)

[9] Even him, whose coming is [[after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders]],

[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(me, or you or anyone else!)

[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

--Elijah

Then the 'logical' or 'reasoning' question would be; "What is the Truth?".

 

[Elijah674]

Part one of two:

OK: These are the Words of Inspiration. Let's see if we can keep the heat directed upon the Lords Word instead of me, huh? Do I care about that? NO, see Matt. 10:25-27. But what does rake me is that satan always tries to divert the subject to the posting person, and away from the truth! 2 Cor. 4:2


Lev. 11

[44] For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(but these are all OK to eat today, huh, God has changed! Do not DEFILE YOURSEVES then, but now it is ok??)

[45] For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be [your] God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
[46] This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
[47] [To make a difference between the unclean and the clean], and between the beast [that may be eaten] and the [beast that may not be eaten].

Dan. 1 (best shorten this or it won't post!)

[3] And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;
[4] Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

[5] And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.
[6] Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:
[7] Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abed-nego.

[8] But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.
[9] Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.
[10] And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.
[11] Then said Daniel to Melzar, whom the prince of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah,
[12] Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.
.....
(you all know the rest!)

And Daniel 3's Golden Image??

[9] They spake and said to the king Nebuchadnezzar, O king, live for ever.
[10] Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

[11] And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
[12] There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

[13] Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king.
[14] Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?
[15] Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?

(To be continued)

 

[Elijah674]

Part two:

[16] Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

[17] If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

[18] But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

[19] Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.
(you'ins know the rest, huh!)

Somewhere along the way we found the Kings diet of unclean drink & food mentioned, huh! And surely you could suppose that these ones were fanatics or fruit cakes! Or just did not know that God was going to change the rules by Paul.

Or does one really know what Paul was teaching? Anyway, the 666 thing will be your testing!


OK: Law of God on Worshiping Him only, or just toss the first table of stone recreated in the fleshy tables of the heart out? Heb. 8:10 & Heb. 10:15-16.
And These guys are all legalist's huh??? Diet & Law Legalist!
(and Doc, that is satire)


Daniel 6

[5] Then said these men, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel, except we find it against him concerning [the law of his God.]
(Did you get that?? And it is the WORSHIP side of the ten! The first four's Duty to God alone! It seems that they were even smarter than most today ones?)


[6] Then these presidents and princes assembled together to the king, and said thus unto him, King Darius, live for ever.
[7] All the presidents of the kingdom, the governors, and the princes, the counsellers, and the captains, have consulted together to establish a royal statute, and to make a firm decree, that whosoever shall ask a petition of any God or man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den of lions.

(And God asks what is new? Eccl. 3:15. toss in the Rev. 17:1-5 ones to boot! and a lamb/like USA turned into a dragon/like beast government)

[8] Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.
[9] Wherefore king Darius signed the writing and the decree.

[10] Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

(OK: You all know the 'rest' surely? but there were two tests seen with this Remnant from old Israel's Judgements of God. Dan. 1:1 will again be repeated 'attempted' history. Eccl. 3:15 and with the 666 Testing with the death decree. Rev. 13:15

And most are already in line to be as were the Dan. 6:7-8 loving ones of the King, in their satanic accusation's of Daniel.


--Elijah

 

[Nathan]

You have yet to answer the question. I have read what you have posted, but I have yet to see where you address the question I posted.

 

[Elijah674]

Forum: The inspired information below tells of 'personal' Titus 3:9-10 Truth. And verse 17 of James 4 tell's the Universe what Sin Is.

[Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.]

Notice the Truth here. It leaves it up to the individual following the Holy Spirit documention of being LED or their refussal to do so. Rom. 8:14 (nothing personal as judging another, yet, teaching the message!)


Jas.4

[4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
...

[7] Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

[8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

[9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
[10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

[11] Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

(and the message is loud & clear, it is what is only known by God that is in ones heart. It is not talking of OPEN DOCUMENTED SIN. See 1 Cor. 5:3-5 & 1 Tim. 1:20.)


[12] There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

[13] Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
[14] Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

[15] For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.

[16] But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
(the VAIN of Titus 3 is Boasting!)


[17] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

And the individual knows when he or she is 'LED' or not, at the start, even these complete Rev. 17:1-5 ones a a church fold! So, who of this SPIRITUAL thread are they, The Clean or the Unclean?? They 'personally' are held accountabe. And that is exactly what Paul had meant! No one know what is inside anothers heart or what their decernment is in growth. Yet NEVER does he condone open sin. Rom. 2:11-13.

--Elijah

 

[Nathan]

Ok. So although it was not a 'yes' or 'no' answer, I am assuming that it is a mixture of the two. Which seems plausible, and inline with what Paul taught and what the Lord taught. The one who does not physically eat or drink in faith is doing so in sin. There is no way to judge another in what He does to the Lord.

But what is the point behind the start of this thread? It seemed, from your original post, that you were taking the very direct and spiritual application and INTENTION of the clean and unclean animals; and applying it to the physical realm. I was confused at the start, asked some questions, and then got ripped for it. That is ok. It is my fault for not looking deeper before I spoke.

Indeed. God has never made the 'unclean' animals clean. And there is no way to presumptuously pray a blessing over the 'unclean' animal to make it clean.

I am sure some are thinking I am swapping sides here, 'blowing in the wind' sort of way, but I assure you I am not. Elijah was right on track with his original post, I have not changed my stance, and there is some deep wholesome truth buried in this thread. I will expound when I have more time. Hopefully clarifying the wisdom of the OP.

 

[Nathan]

I hope that those who have been following this will not turn away at this challenge. There is some very good, and quite frankly needed, truth in this thread. It does not seem the way it looks from a 'fleshly' point of view. The one who desires to know the riches of God's wisdom will find some valuable treasures if they will just dig into the OP and the ones following it.

Along the way you are going to see some 'fleshly' things being 'cut' out from amongst us, but in the end this will be pure CLEAN meat to the one who is hungry.

 

[smaller]

I hope that those who have been following this will not turn away at this challenge. There is some very good, and quite frankly needed, truth in this thread. It does not seem the way it looks from a 'fleshly' point of view. The one who desires to know the riches of God's wisdom will find some valuable treasures if they will just dig into the OP and the ones following it.

Along the way you are going to see some 'fleshly' things being 'cut' out from amongst us, but in the end this will be pure CLEAN meat to the one who is hungry.

Those who pick up the carnal ordinances of LAW as Mr. Elijah has and uses to 'be legal' also prove the produce of SIN within themselves.

HOW?

Because they have in effect produced DEATH to other believers within their heart. And they don't see it, notice it or even realize what happened to their 'insides.' They bask in self justifications even while DEATH REIGNS within their hearts and is openly exposed by their own lips and writings.

In essence that IS what The Word does to the operations of SIN in MAN.

It produces DEATH in the heart.

James 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

What DEATH you say?

Elijah has produced ETERNAL DEATH to ALL other people, particularly believers, in his own heart for eating a piece of pork and carries that within himself and is a conveyor of that death.

Anyone who follows that path will fall into an IDENTICAL working of self justifications, hypocrisy, and ETERNAL DEATH to other believers.

It's as predictible as RAIN.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Elijah674]

Hi, personal jabs, huh? Matt. 10:25 +! But how about drinking satans fermented stuff or smoking or other drugs, not just eating rats snakes or whatever??

But back to the spiritual TRUTH if one can understand that? John 3:3 & 2 Tim. 3:3 with Heb. 10:15-16 documentation!

We did read this from Inspiration in 1 Cor. 8:7-13 (see the context in Acts 15:19-24) perhaps, but lets just zero in on the 'Spiritual Meat' of these verses, and the very last one of what sin is!?

[8] But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
[9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
[10] For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
[11] And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

[12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

[13] Wherefore, if meatmake my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
(WHY?)

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Hi, personal jabs, huh? Matt. 10:25 +! But how about drinking satans fermented stuff or smoking or other drugs, not just eating rats snakes or whatever??

But back to the spiritual TRUTH if one can understand that? John 3:3 & 2 Tim. 3:3 with Heb. 10:15-16 documentation!

We did read this from Inspiration in 1 Cor. 8:7-13 (see the context in Acts 15:19-24) perhaps, but lets just zero in on the 'Spiritual Meat' of these verses, and the very last one of what sin is!?

[8] But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
[9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
[10] For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
[11] And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

[12] But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

[13] Wherefore, if meatmake my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
(WHY?)

--Elijah

So don't eat pork. More power to ya! I certainly DON'T condemn YOU for refraining, and if I were with you, I would also refrain for the sake of your weakness.

s

 

[Elijah674]

So don't eat pork. More power to ya! I certainly DON'T condemn YOU for refraining, and if I were with you, I would also refrain for the sake of your weakness.

s

Think about what is recorded with that above remark in the Accurate Heavenly Records! Eccl. 12:13-14

Do you not understand that you are reaching out to perhaps 1000's? even your family could die with your type of 'testimony' to them, if you are believed? But surely there is one at least, that think as you do.. from your wittness.

And if you are as stated, most certainly they are not all having your faith. And that it was DOCUMENTED [IS YOUR SIN].

--Elijah

 

[Nathan]

Those who pick up the carnal ordinances of LAW as Mr. Elijah has and uses to 'be legal' also prove the produce of SIN within themselves.

HOW?

Because they have in effect produced DEATH to other believers within their heart. And they don't see it, notice it or even realize what happened to their 'insides.' They bask in self justifications even while DEATH REIGNS within their hearts and is openly exposed by their own lips and writings.

In essence that IS what The Word does to the operations of SIN in MAN.

It produces DEATH in the heart.

James 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

What DEATH you say?

Elijah has produced ETERNAL DEATH to ALL other people, particularly believers, in his own heart for eating a piece of pork and carries that within himself and is a conveyor of that death.

Anyone who follows that path will fall into an IDENTICAL working of self justifications, hypocrisy, and ETERNAL DEATH to other believers.

It's as predictible as RAIN.

enjoy!

smaller

I think that you are missing the point as was I until a little while ago. The 'flesh' was warring with flesh, and the spiritual was sitting back shaking its head.

Indeed, to use the fleshly side of the LAW is death indeed. But what you see here is not all flesh. There is some real spiritual wisdom, one must discern between the two however.

1Cr 1:19 For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart."

1Cr 1:20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1Cr 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

1Cr 1:22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,

1Cr 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,

1Cr 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

My 'own' wisdom and discernment was destroyed. He placed within me His wisdom and discernment when I focused my eyes back on the Lord and away from the individuals posting.

Jam 1:19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger;

Jam 1:20 for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.




Phl 1:9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment,

Phl 1:10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,

Phl 1:11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.


Hopefully I will have time to explain. But for those who are genuinely interested the OP will more than 'fill' those who are seeking heavenly nourishment.

 

[smaller]

Think about what is recorded with that above remark in the Accurate Heavenly Records! Eccl. 12:13-14

Do you not understand that you are reaching out to perhaps 1000's? even your family could die with your type of 'testimony' to them, if you are believed? But surely there is one at least, that think as you do.. from your wittness.

Honestly Elijah, faith has not led me to condemn believers to potential eternal death for eating pork.

And if you are as stated, most certainly they are not all having your faith. And that it was DOCUMENTED [IS YOUR SIN].

--Elijah

I don't allow any believer the space to throw eternal death at me for their 'supposed' O.T. Law obedience measures, and will call it what it is, death conveyance in the heart of the carrier.

Nowhere are such measures in the New Testament.

s

 

[Nathan]

Ok. I have some time now, and I want to address this because I want to clairify my statement of

Indeed. God has never made the 'unclean' animals clean. And there is no way to presumptuously pray a blessing over the 'unclean' animal to make it clean.

The original post had to do with the 'makeup' of the tabernacle. The 'dwelling' place of God. He(God) made a distinction between clean and unclean animals for the reason of making a distinction between the purity of Christ and the impurity of human kind.

When I first read the post I immediately 'jumped' to a conclusion that it was dealing with physical animals. Whether that is Elijah's full intention or not, I cannot say. But the point of the original post (from what I gather from it) is that some were saying, "oh well. God 'cleaned' the unclean animals; does it really matter if they are 'clean' or 'unclean'?".

YES, it does matter. For if the tabernacle (Christ) was not fully clean, then He was not God. God cannot dwell where sin is. Therefore, it will always stand in all eternity the difference between the clean and the unclean animals. There was/is a specific purpose for it.

Now, with that said. Will I put myself under the law of eating clean and unclean animals? Most certainly not.

Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Rom 7:5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

Rom 7:6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

I am not 'under' the law, nor will I place myself under it. I died to it, I live to Christ. The law brought about death in me. It 'confined' me under sin. And before it is said, "This is specifically the law of Moses he is referring too" we should be careful to keep all things in context.

Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

Rom 7:8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.

We know for a fact that "You shall not covet" is the tenth and final commandment of the Lord God. Therefore, Paul was specifically referring to the Ten Commandments when he mentions the law.

But, the law only lies dead when we serve in the Spirit. When we walk in the flesh the law is always present with us, and we are at war with God. When we walk in the Spirit the law is fulfilled in us. The body, our physical body, is dead. It is nothing. It will forevermore be under the curse. Therefore the physical intake of animals does nothing to go against the law of the Spirit of God. It goes in, and then comes out. The stomach was made for food, and food was made for the stomach and God will destroy BOTH in the end.

However, when we do not walk by faith, but rather by sight, we condemn ourselves before our Lord. So if anyone considers it a sin to eat those animals deemed unclean by God, it is sin to him. Because, it is true, God did not "change" the unclean to clean. But we know, through the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead, that the true and EVERLASTING SPIRITUAL meaning with things clean and unclean are fulfilled in Christ.

We must not take lightly the clean and unclean things. But we must not try and also combine the physical with the spiritual. The two war against each other. They are at enmity with each other.

Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.

We would do good to realize that our flesh is very deceitful. And the word stands that it is in direct opposition to the things of the Spirit. When this corruption puts on incorruption, then they will be in harmony. Until then we live according to the Spirit.

But with that we must realize that God does not change. There are unclean things that should never be taken in. Albeit they are spiritual in nature. Man indeed SHALL NOT live by bread alone. But by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God. These words are spirit and they are truth. And when one does not live by them he is likened to the man who has been told to never eat swine and sits down to a feast full of it.

The flesh and the spirit are in opposition to each other. They have no direct relation to each other, but only in the arena that we will serve one or the other. We cannot have two masters. And we MUST believe that there is no unclean thing in the makeup of the tabernacle, for that tabernacle is Christ and Christ was sinless.

Interestingly enough, to whom did the vision come too? Why did it come to Peter? Why not any of the other 12? Why not Paul? What do we know about the first mention of Peter?

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

We know that Peter was known as Simon, and there is a reason why Christ changed his name. It was because when in the Spirit he made the confession, it had to be separated from the flesh.

 

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A generally good post nate.

It is not the flesh itself that we battle with, but what is IN same, that being indwelling sin.

NO MATTER what a man does to appear 'legal' on the outside, that PRESENCE has permanently defiled the flesh and is NEVER legal or obedient.

The Law only serves to inflame the matter. The LAW is in fact for the 'lawless.'

Sin is lawlessness. Sin will never BE lawful. It's not possible. Even if not aroused through the process of thought, through to word and summation in deed, SIN is still there and still doing 'it's' things. And yes, a SIN IN MIND is just as much the SIN as the SIN IN DEED. The deed is the finality of that working of death.

It is quite easy to see the production of death in the supposed legally obedient. They HEAP GREAT MOUNDS OF ETERNAL DEATH upon other people OPENLY.

That is EXACTLY what THE LAW has reflected IN THE HEARTS of these people.

I'm sorry to say that the working of GRACE does no differently in MANY. Ya just have to look at their CONVEYANCES to others to SEE what is being REFLECTED IN THEM.

I find the entire reflective process QUITE interesting, and have the pleasure to have faced these matters in HONESTY.

I KNOW for a fact that I have EVIL PRESENT with me, exactly as Paul described in Romans 7:17-21. This is A LAW that no man can avoid IF they are really honest with themselves.

When you 'hear' Jesus saying that those who worship God must do so in SPIRIT and IN TRUTH...the TRUTH is in part coming to HIM with the honesty of EVIL being present with us because THAT is THE TRUTH.

God does not hear the prayers and pleads of liars. They will be LOCKED OUT. They are NOT hearing what THE LAW is saying to them.

THE SCRIPTURE HAS CONCLUDED THAT ALL ARE UNDER SIN. There is no avoiding this fact. Churches have been selling various forms of OVER LOOKING this fact for centuries. It seems to be a good business method, but IT'S NOT TRUE.

We as believers are and can be forgiven. That presence however IS NOT forgiven, nor will it ever be forgiven.

WHY?

Because SIN IS OF THE DEVIL. This is a piece of UNPLEASANTRY that few want to face. It is however A SCRIPTURAL FACT.

You cited the CEPHAS to PETER principle. I'd like to observe the extension of that principle...that where the Word is sown, as it was IN Peter...who showed up nearly instantly AFTERWARDS in PETER...?

That's right... ol' beelzebub showed up RIGHT ON CUE. That IS what happens when we place THE WORKINGS OF SIN under LAW. Satan gets to START his HYPOCRISY parade IN men. And voila, another PHARISEE is fostered.

Jesus called those Pharisees CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL because THEY HAD DEVILS in them. Jesus talked to those men and SPOKE TO DEVILS in them.

yet you could put these matters in front of 100 believers and perhaps NONE will take this information 'personally' because OFFENCE is instantly fostered IN THEM.

Why? The reason, to me, is OBVIOUS.

Now, extend this working to the DIVISIONS we see in Christianity.

You think it just BELIEVERS wrangling?

No sir. It ain't much O' that at all.

enjoy!

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[Elijah674]

Honestly Elijah, faith has not led me to condemn believers to potential eternal death for eating pork.



I don't allow any believer the space to throw eternal death at me for their 'supposed' O.T. Law obedience measures, and will call it what it is, death conveyance in the heart of the carrier.

Nowhere are such measures in the New Testament.

s

Wow! You are [posting] like the Heb. 5 ones. You miss the point all together.

There is Acts 4:12's NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN to be Saved than through Christ. And these ALL are [[[IN CHRIST]]] Rom. 8:1 & are to be LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! ibid 14. SAVED NO OTHER WAY, CHRIST ONLY & ONLY BY CHRIST. That is the Born Again START ONLY!!! Acts 5:32

Now comes one going from the babe of Heb. 5 'IF WE CAN?' onward. Heb. 6:3 'And this will we do, if God permit.' But your posting say's that you can 'witness to your young'ins in eating anything that God documents as unclean', and if you are alive when Christ comes again, that you will be saved'? And that THINKING is not in ones baby stage of today?? (no question intended!) but all Heb. 6 ones are in the required stage of maturity when Christ comes! (And in this case, it is the Heb.6:1-6 on) And if one just will not mature? Then Heb. 6:6 applies!

So: Just for these ones 'young'in', (not the Heb. 5 babes) we see a verse 6 where even these 'clean meat fed' 'MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST' ones [[can come to the place that they just flat out will not be 'LED' of the Holy Ghost any further!]]

Remember now that these ones are not Heb. 5's babes! They become as Cain in Gen. 4:7. They ARE SAVED they say, now what more does God NOW REQUIRE?
Again notice the verse documenting 'once enlightened', and 'have tasted of the word of God', and 'WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST'.

And NO, there are two class seen above. And there is in the last days that we are living in matured requirements required! Dan. 12:4, Rev. 18:4, Hosea 4:6, Rev. 3:16, Nah. 1:9 finds that this is what salvation is all about, MATURING to be safe to save for all of Eternity! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 finds all Provisions freely given if we will be 'LED'??

--Elijah