Wine vs. Grape juice

[Monkey Del]

What non-believers?

Any that may happen to poke their heads in here to see what deep, insightful, life-changing things Christians talk about.

[quote:9b01d]Do you honestly believe anyone is converted to anything by words on a screen...???

No, but I honestly believe that people won't become Christians because of all the petty disputes among believers, whether on a screen or not.[/quote:9b01d]

Maybe what you consider "petty" , God and others do not. Ever considered that?

As to non-believers:
Romans 10:
14: How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15: And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

As far as arguing....who is ? yOU? Not me. I gave my input and posted the scriptures that support my position. I am agreeing with the word of God.

 

[Monkey Del]

I see no reason to use real wine. It is all symbolic anyway, we're to do it in rememberence.
Why use real wine? I know tons of people whom the Lord has delivered from alcohol, and to drink ANY amount of alcohol could be a stumbling block.

I appreciate what you posted.

I disagree, though. I know tons of people who delivered themselves of Alcohol, not God. They followed a program set up by a man.

When God delivers someone of Alcohol or cigarettes...there is no longer any cravings. I am proof of this. I don't desire a cigarette and haven't sense I came to the Lord. He took it away.

 

[Grace Alone]

Do you honestly believe anyone is converted to anything by words on a screen...???

Actually, the Lord saved my husband through the witness of a believer online. Off the subject, I know, but I thought it was rather important to say that even though we aren't face to face with people, we have a responsibility to speak in such a way that others may be won to Christ. It can happen.

 

[Charlotte]

If drinking wine is wrong, why did the Publicans and Pharisees call Jesus a winebibber? A winebibber is someone who drinks a lot of wine. Wine was used at Passover, not grape juice.

I would like to know how much different the wine was back then, compared to the wine we have today. There are things added to wine today that probably wasn't added at that time.

Charlotte

 

[Monkey Del]

Correct about wine being diferent. Ever heard of Kosher wine? It is pure squeezed wine, without adding yeast or sugar.

However, The only reason I drink wine is for my stomach sake and oft infirmities.(sickness) or during the Lord's Supper. :angel:

 

[Charlotte]

Monkey Del,

Nothing wrong with that, Paul did the same thing. It is also good for other things too.

But an alcoholic is better off drinking no alcoholic beverages.

Charlotte

 

[jcorley]

I belong to a baptist church and we use grape juice. We are also considered fundamentalists who use a literal theology, I never understood why we used grape juice. It really doesn't matter, does it?

Romans 14 is not dealing with "Food laws." Pork is not the issue. The issue is made plain in the beginning of the chapter where Paul says not to hold bretheren with weaker faith in contempt.

Where someone is, in their Christian walk, is not something we should allow us to keep from fellowshipping with them, etc.

As far as someone not being ABLE to drink wine or etc. that's due to their weak faith.

Now, on the one hand some who can drink wine are ok to do so, as long as it is not to excess, and shouldn't look down on those of weaker faith who don't.

Then Paul points out, vice versa. (Where those who do not drink should not look down on those who DO)

It's quite plain really. Romans 14 and much of scripture are quite plain in some of these areas.

 

[Steve]

Absolutely, unequivocally, wine. Grape juice is a nineteenth century innovation, brought on by the "Temperance Movement" in the USA. Before that, ALL churches used wine, and the common cup.

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Absolutely, unequivocally, wine. Grape juice is a nineteenth century innovation, brought on by the "Temperance Movement" in the USA. Before that, ALL churches used wine, and the common cup.

There are still many who wish it were otherwise.

JMW

 

[JM]

Absolutely, unequivocally, wine. Grape juice is a nineteenth century innovation, brought on by the "Temperance Movement" in the USA. Before that, ALL churches used wine, and the common cup.

It's wine.

 

[xsearnold]

Let's see:

1) All references to the Lord's Supper merely use "the cup".
2) Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine, and
3) Many believe that the cup becomes Jesus' blood through a miracle

So, obviously we should use...

WATER!

Let Jesus turn it into whatever He wants when it hits our lips or our stomach!

This is the official doctrine of the First Church of the Evian-ites, led by Pope Dasani I, and started by those two obscure apostles, Hinckley and Schmidt (covering both the English and German reformations).

How's that for "fruit"-less discussion?

 

[Steve]

Let's see:

1) All references to the Lord's Supper merely use "the cup".
2) Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine, and
3) Many believe that the cup becomes Jesus' blood through a miracle

So, obviously we should use...

WATER!

Let Jesus turn it into whatever He wants when it hits our lips or our stomach!

This is the official doctrine of the First Church of the Evian-ites, led by Pope Dasani I, and started by those two obscure apostles, Hinckley and Schmidt (covering both the English and German reformations).

How's that for "fruit"-less discussion?

Sounds a tad...MOR(M)ONIC! :D

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Let's see:

1) All references to the Lord's Supper merely use "the cup".
2) Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine, and
3) Many believe that the cup becomes Jesus' blood through a miracle

So, obviously we should use...

WATER!

Let Jesus turn it into whatever He wants when it hits our lips or our stomach!

This is the official doctrine of the First Church of the Evian-ites, led by Pope Dasani I, and started by those two obscure apostles, Hinckley and Schmidt (covering both the English and German reformations).

How's that for "fruit"-less discussion?

Sounds a tad...MOR(M)ONIC! :D

No you have that confused with another denomination led by Martin VIII and Henry Luther.

 

[Sinner_Saved_by_Grace]

Absolutely, unequivocally, wine. Grape juice is a nineteenth century innovation, brought on by the "Temperance Movement" in the USA. Before that, ALL churches used wine, and the common cup.

I agree with that. It's wine. However, I do love my brothers and sisters in Christ who disagree with me on this issue.

 

[JM]

I still vote for wine [or Beefeaters but I can't find any verse to support the Gin and 7.]

 

[Georges]

FWIW....my opinion that is.....

"Communion"....and I use the term grudgingly....should be observed only once a year....at Passover....and at no other time....

Why? Because it is one of the 7 major Feast Days in the Jewish religious year.

And that's important, why? Because in the Biblical past, Passover wasn't celebrated every other Sunday, or once a month. It was celebrated once a year for a reason....To point to the events of the cross that would happen at a certain time of the year. That is very important in the scheme of the 1st and 2nd comings of Messiah. To celebrate "Communion" more than at it's proper time takes the eyes off the purpose that the "Passover, and Seder" were instituted for....and that is....drumroll.......The Messianic Kingdom........

Passover showed the timing of the First coming of Messiah....this Passover event concerning the Messiah occurred during a particular time of the year for a reason...and the reason is that it sets the timing up for the 2nd coming of Messiah during the Fall Feast period.

Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Pentecost are all Feast Days concerning the first coming of Messiah and occur in the Spring.

Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacles concern the Second Coming of Messiah and are celebrated during the Fall.....


To answer the question....Wine...because that was traditonally used in the Seder (yes even children drank wine). And, it should only be celebrated once a year to keep the eyes focused on it's intent.

How is celebrating "communion" on Sunday, August 12 supposed to remind you of future events that will happen in the Fall of some future year?

In other words, how is remembering Christ on August 12 while celebrating "communion" supposed to remind you that the future 2nd Coming will occur during the Fall? Ans: It won't as most of you who will read this post don't know what I'm talking about....

However, if you do only celebrate (as is proper) "communion" on the Jewish Passover, then you will be remembering Chirst's First Coming, and you will be remembering his future Second Coming during the Fall Feast days.


Sorry about the length.....

 

[Vic C.]

Me thinks our new Moderator is bored today? :

"Communion"....and I use the term grudgingly....should be observed only once a year....at Passover....and at no other time....

Why? Because it is one of the 7 major Feast Days in the Jewish religious year.

This is one of the reasons why I admire your posts George... you see things as they are most the time, with the blinders off. I agree with the above. Of course, someone like Thess will ask why I am obsessed with the number of times one should or should not celebrate the Lord's Supper. :wink:

To answer the question....Wine...because that was traditonally used in the Seder (yes even children drank wine). And, it should only be celebrated once a year to keep the eyes focused on it's intent.

Don't forget; three pats wine, one part water. :-D

NO GIN! : :

 

[Georges]

Me thinks our new Moderator is bored today? :

"Communion"....and I use the term grudgingly....should be observed only once a year....at Passover....and at no other time....

Why? Because it is one of the 7 major Feast Days in the Jewish religious year.

This is one of reasons why I admire your posts George... you see things as they are most the time, with the blinders off. I agree with the above. Of course, someone like Thess will ask why I am obcessed with the number of times one should or should not celebrate the Lord's Supper. :wink:

I don't know if I've got blinders off, or on I know I just have a different perspective than do most here...used to have the same as most here, but had to strip it all and start again. It all makes sense to me at the moment (always subject to change) :-D

[quote:b878d]To answer the question....Wine...because that was traditonally used in the Seder (yes even children drank wine). And, it should only be celebrated once a year to keep the eyes focused on it's intent.

Don't forget; three pats wine, one part water. :-D

NO GIN! : :

thought that was 6 jars of water....

[/quote:b878d]

heh..heh....

 

[reznwerks]

lunch

Both are biblical, as wine is made from grape juice!

Your question needs clarifying a bit more.

You are wrong. Grape juice is made from wine. Research it. Wine is the fruit of the vine. To make grape juice you have to boil wine freshly squeezed..to kill the yeast that surrounds the grape.

The instant you squeeze a grape you make wine...the yeast mixes with the sugar in the grape. Natural process.

Grapes are the only fruit that does this naturally, to my knowledge.


.

What did you have for lunch?

 

[ownedbyhim]

The cup

If I understand scripture correctly, Jesus was eating the passover meal with the disciples, right?

Look at Exodus 12:15. Doesn't God command Israel to remove leaven (yeast) from their homes during the passover? Or have I missed something?

Something else to consider: when the word leaven is used to describe people is it ever positive?

If y'all want to use wine, use it. If the rest of you don't, then refrain.

See also the treatise on the two wines at the Radical Pilgrim, an excellent Kiwi site.


Frank