Bible Study Without the Holy Spirit, We Can Do Nothing.

[JLB]

No, they heard the Gospel and were saved by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit baptizing them into Christ in reflection of which event they were baptized in water. There was only one spiritual baptism that occurred in this

A person is saved, born again thus regenerated when they believe.

This is where the Spirit baptizes us into Christ and we become one spirit with Christ.

This is apart from water baptism or the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit.




JLB

 

[Tenchi]

Moses was a type of Christ.

As I pointed out from Paul's own words from 1 Corinthians 10:1-6, he was not teaching anything about three baptisms. He wrote very clearly what his point was in speaking of those who followed Moses' lead out of Egypt. Here it is again:

6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

You have completely ignored what Paul wrote, pressing into his words an idea completely foreign to his purpose in writing what he did.

The Spirit baptizes us into Christ.

Yes, he does.

 

[JLB]

As I pointed out from Paul's own words from 1 Corinthians 10:1-6, he was not teaching anything about three baptisms.

Do you believe “baptized” into Moses was a reference to being baptized Into Christ?

IOW’s do you believe Moses was a type of Christ?

 

[JLB]

Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

Yes and the point being that Paul was warning them even though they have been baptized, they must not live immoral and be involved with the world.

 

[Tenchi]

A person is saved, born again thus regenerated when they believe.

This is where the Spirit baptizes us into Christ and we become one spirit with Christ.

This is apart from water baptism or the baptism WITH the Holy Spirit.

Yes, you've stated these things before. Repeating your assertions doesn't make them any more correct, however. I've shown from Scripture that you're mishandling God's word in order to arrive at your three baptisms view but instead of actually engaging directly with what I've shown you from Scripture, you just ignore my points and restate your own. To me, this is a tacit acknowledgement of the faultiness of your view.

As the Scripture I've already given you clearly indicated, there is no being born-again, no being saved, except one is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. See: Romans 8:9, 1 John 4:13, Titus 3:5, etc. This indwelling of the Spirit is the single spiritual "baptism" a Christian undergoes in order to become a child of God. There is no other baptism taught as either common or necessary in God's word following a person's baptism into Christ by the Spirit, though there is filling by the Spirit that may occur.

As I've also pointed out, in laying out your view you've made description into a prescription, which is a very fallacious way both of reasoning and of interpreting God's word. The Bible describes a great many things that are not at all prescriptive for the New Covenant believer: homosexuality, assassination, war, polygamy, ceremonial sacrifice of animals, circumcision, etc. So, then, the mere description of something in Scripture doesn't make it prescriptive for Christians today. On what textual grounds does the occasion of John 20 between Jesus and his disciples form a prescription for all believers? No Christian is expected to ride in a boat in the middle of storm while Jesus walks out to them on the water. No Christian is expected to climb a mountain where they can watch a transfigured Jesus chatting with Moses and Elijah. No Christian is expected to spend an evening in the Garden of Gethsemane while Jesus agonizes about his upcoming crucifixion. Though all of these things happened to the Twelve, none of these experiences are expected to be repeated for all Christians. So why, then, is this one event involving the Twelve in John 20 expected to be universal for all believers? Again, description doesn't equal prescription.

When Jesus breathed the Spirit upon the Twelve in John 20, there was no accompanying statement from Christ that his doing so was something all Christians should expect as part of becoming a born-again child of God. And there is no explicit, repeated teaching to this effect anywhere in the entire NT, though the necessity of the indwelling Holy Spirit to salvation is explicitly and repeatedly stated in the NT. Why this complete absence of explicit teaching if what Christ did with the Twelve in John 20 is to be repeated in the life of every single born-again person? You've not offered any reasonable explanation, just repeated your talking points.

And so, all that you've just repeated over and over about these three baptisms doesn't convince me in the slightest that you've got the right of things.

 

[Tenchi]

Do you believe “baptized” into Moses was a reference to being baptized Into Christ?

Do you acknowledge what Paul himself wrote was his point in remarking on the Israelites "baptized" into Moses? He wasn't teaching anything about baptism but about the craving of the evil things of one's former bondage in "Egypt" (i.e. the World, the Flesh and the devil). He says this quite plainly, as I've pointed out.

 

[JLB]

Do you acknowledge what Paul himself wrote was his point in remarking on the Israelites "baptized" into Moses? He wasn't teaching anything about baptism but about the craving of the evil things of one's former bondage in "Egypt" (i.e. the World, the Flesh and the devil). He says this quite plainly, as I've pointed out.

Please just answer the question.

Do you believe the phrase “baptized into Moses” refers to, is a shadow of us being baptized into Christ.

IOW’s do you believe Moses was a type of Christ?

Yes?
No?

 

[JLB]

Do you acknowledge what Paul himself wrote was his point in remarking on the Israelites "baptized" into Moses?

Yes he was using OT shadows to teach a spiritual reality, the context shows.


all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:3-4

 

[Tenchi]

Do you believe the phrase “baptized into Moses” refers to, is a shadow of us being baptized into Christ.

Only in an extremely limited way. The Israelites followed Moses and in this way they parallel the New Covenant believer who follows Christ; but the relationship a Christian has with Christ is far more expansive, far deeper, spiritual and eternal, than the relationship of the OT Israelites fleeing Egypt with Moses. My spiritual baptism into Christ unites me to him in a way the Israelites were never united to Moses. No OT Israelite was indwelt by the spirit of Moses, cleansed, redeemed and spiritually regenerated by him, as a result. No OT Israelite was inwardly transformed into the likeness of Moses by the spiritual work of the spirit of Moses in their mind and heart. No OT Israelite was made forever a child of God, eternally adopted into His kingdom and family by the saving work of the spirit of Moses. There is, then, only the vaguest parallel between Moses and Christ that Paul draws in 1 Corinthians 10:1-6 - certainly too vague to be a good basis for your "three baptisms" idea.

And Paul makes no explicit connection of his "baptism into Moses" remark to the New Covenant believer's baptism into Christ, nor does he plainly instruct his readers about the idea that there are three such baptisms in 1 Corinthians 10:1-6. But Paul does very plainly indicate what his point was in the passage:

1 Corinthians 10:6 (NASB)
6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

Yes he was using OT shadows to teach a spiritual reality, the context shows.

Right. And in the case of 1 Corinthians 10:1-6 that shadow had to do with desiring the evil things of bondage, as Paul plainly stated, not teaching that there are three baptisms which every believer must undergo.

 

[JLB]

This is a bit...rich coming from one who has consistently ignored the points made to him from Scripture.



Only in an extremely limited way. The Israelites followed Moses and in this way they parallel the New Covenant believer who follows Christ; but the relationship a Christian has with Christ is far more expansive, far deeper, spiritual and eternal, than the relationship of the OT Israelites fleeing Egypt with Moses. My spiritual baptism into Christ unites me to him in a way the Israelites were never united to Moses. No OT Israelite was indwelt by the spirit of Moses, cleansed, redeemed and spiritually regenerated by him, as a result. No OT Israelite was inwardly transformed into the likeness of Moses by the spiritual work of the spirit of Moses in their mind and heart. No OT Israelite was made forever a child of God, eternally adopted into His kingdom and family by the saving work of the spirit of Moses. There is, then, only the vaguest parallel between Moses and Christ that Paul draws in 1 Corinthians 10:1-6 - certainly too vague to be a good basis for your "three baptisms" idea.

And Paul makes no explicit connection of his "baptism into Moses" remark to the New Covenant believer's baptism into Christ, nor does he plainly instruct his readers about the idea that there are three such baptisms in 1 Corinthians 10:1-6. But Paul does very plainly indicate what his point was in the passage:

1 Corinthians 10:6 (NASB)
6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.



Right. And in the case of 1 Corinthians 10:1-6 that shadow had to do with desiring the evil things of bondage, as Paul plainly stated, not teaching that there are three baptisms which every believer must undergo.

Do you believe the phrase “baptized into Moses” refers to, is a shadow of us being baptized into Christ.

IOW’s do you believe Moses was a type of Christ?

Yes?
No?