WOMEN PASTORS

[jasoncran]

Theo,

The family is God's plan. His plan is a great picture of Himself. The theme is continuous from Gen to The Revelation!

Mankind jumps in and want to change His plan all the time so sad.

My pitiful answer to you question is yes a pastor should be married and have kids.

A pastor should have one wife IMO that includes not a divorced one.

Christ has one bride Here again is the male female thing.

ok, then so a pastor should have kids and be married, then PAUL, was disaqualified for service.

 

[Hitch]

John Calvin A Short Treatise, 1543:

"Many inquire, not to know the truth but to get answers to their liking. And our Lord, in order to punish their hypocrasy, lets them find what they are seeking."

 

[theLords]

1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Amen. And the Lord tells wives to respect their husbands and husbands to love their wives. There's a reason for that ;)

 

[Alabaster]

Just my thoughts and they may come from being 60+ ... A young women brought up in Scripture would already know and therefor not ask.


Looking around i think the church could use some of this....


Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Coming from a women following closely up your rear....

I know little girls and young women---many of them---who have been raised on the word of God and know their place in the family of God and they know they can aspire to pastor. Pastoring isn't always a spiritual gift. It is a common result of walking with God daily. We are commanded to be disciples. Don't you care for people you are discipling? That is pastoring.

I know I have pastored, as well as fulfilled my role as a woman, wife and mother in the home. The two do not conflict.

As far as pastoring as a church position, I know many female pastors, and my mother was one, also. These women are working out of a spiritual gift. Holy Spirit doesn't do a plumbing check before he divvies out His gifts. He is no respecter of persons...Jesus wasn't either.

 

[pjt]

This is all you can come up with? A Samaritan woman of ill repute was not the norm.

I was replying to your statement and I quote your words "In a time when scripture was written, women were never wives of more than one husband--that was just not done. They were considered chattel, and not free to accumulate spouses like men were! Therefore it would be stupid for Paul to declare an edict concerning women and multiple spouses."

You said women "never" had more than one husband so I simply gave a Bible verse that showed VERY differently. You said Paul would be "stupid" to "declare an edict" for women with multiple husbands because it just didn`t happen. Yet the Bible clearly says it did happen. This was your argument that women can indeed be pastors because Paul did not need to address women since women would never have more than one husband. That was your argument and your words, and I was showing Biblically that is not correct.

So you may say, "that was one exception". But you said it "never" happened. Yet, since it clearly did happen and was recorded, it only makes sense that Paul would need to address women in this matter as well. But he excluded women, therefore it could be concluded he excluded them because the matter of leadership only applied to men.

But I beg to differ that this was a one time exceptional case. The Proverbs spoke many times of men being careful of adultresses and loose women. Sometimes we take too prude of a view of Biblical times. People were not all pure and women had more rights than we claim. Then when we get in Jesus` time under Roman rule and influence, I think women having more than one husband was probably more common than we think. Even today a woman having married 7 times and now living with a man is rather shocking unless it`s a Hollywood actress. But this woman did it. Perhaps women having more than one husband was more common than what we like to imagine. The fact is, women having multiple husbands did happen in that time. It is Biblically recorded.

I don`t know why women want to fight the Bible when it talks about women. What is so bad or demeaning about men being leaders in the home and church? It doesn`t devalue women. We don`t have to fight it. God`s design is good. We can enjoy it. Being a woman is a wonderful thing and following God`s design is lovely. It allows a woman to blossom into her full feminity and feel beautiful, soft, gentle, and cared for. God knows what women desire and need because God gave women a certain nature, and God`s design for the home and church allows a woman`s needs to be met and fullfilled if she will submit and men will take the reigns. It`s a good design and benefits men, women, and children alike.

Also, we women have our own calling Titus 2:3-5 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
<SUP id=en-KJV-29913 class=versenum>4</SUP>That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, <SUP id=en-KJV-29914 class=versenum>5</SUP>To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. "

Why as women do we feel we must abandon our God given duties as Titus 2 calls? Why do we prefer to upsurp men and grab the pulpit? or other manly duties in the body?

As women we have ignored our duties and the result has been society and the church have suffered for it. There`s no reason the divorce rate among Christians should be equal to nonChristians if the older women were helping the younger women learn to love their husbands and care for theirs homes, but we ignore our hurting sisters in search of bigger, better things.

Are you aware that women abuse their children more than men do? But this should not be happening if Christian women were taking our God given duties more seriously. Society says that women have a natural maternal instinct so we are naturally loving and nurturing to our children, but the Bible says differently. The Bible says a woman has to be taught how to love her children. Mothering is an extremely difficult task, but we have a generation that says "I raised my children by myself without anyone`s help so what`s wrong with these young mothers that they can`t too?" This is hard hearted and far from God`s design. Children and society suffer when women run from our duties from our homes and our sisters. Our duties to our homes, husbands, children, and sisters in Christ is more than enough to keep us busy.

When we hear in the news about a divorced mom that abuses or kills her child so she can enjoy a relationship with another man, we shake our heads and say what a pathetic mom she was, but it does not occur to us that maybe we helped create such a situation because if we Christian women were standing by to support other women in their marriages and raising their children and coping with the challenges in life, maybe the incidences of divorce and abuse would go down. We Christian women are really failing in our duty. We don`t need to be pastors because we have not even done our first task to free us up to take on another.

Just to conclude, the God given role of women is enormous. The saying "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" is not a far fetched saying. It contains great truth.

<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_1_0597ee04-9f56-4e17-a370-23a40bc942fd --><STYLE>.AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } .AOLWebSuite a {color:blue; text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer} .AOLWebSuite a.hsSig {cursor: default}</STYLE><LINK rel=stylesheet type=text/css href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/33354/css/microformat.css">

 

[mrroy1937]

Many women are gifted of God. One outsanding example is Joyce Meyer. But she is a teacher, not a pastor.

My issue with women pasters is this. Our God is the Father. How can God ordain a woman to be a Father patterned after Him? Now, I firmly believe in a husband/wife pastorate. That is a new one but I've seen it work in marvelous ways.

Traditionally, pastor's wives have been relegated to the front row and all they do is look nice and smile when their husbands introduce them. I never liked that.

There are many instances in which men should minister to men and women to women. That's why I think a joint pastorate is so good.

 

[reba]

Great post PJT

Mrroy. I agree to what you called a joint pastorate. Daddy was a pastor but he most definitely need mom. They were a team. Each completed the other.

 

[Sam21]

I was replying to your statement and I quote your words "In a time when scripture was written, women were never wives of more than one husband--that was just not done. They were considered chattel, and not free to accumulate spouses like men were! Therefore it would be stupid for Paul to declare an edict concerning women and multiple spouses."

You said women "never" had more than one husband so I simply gave a Bible verse that showed VERY differently. You said Paul would be "stupid" to "declare an edict" for women with multiple husbands because it just didn`t happen. Yet the Bible clearly says it did happen. This was your argument that women can indeed be pastors because Paul did not need to address women since women would never have more than one husband. That was your argument and your words, and I was showing Biblically that is not correct.

So you may say, "that was one exception". But you said it "never" happened. Yet, since it clearly did happen and was recorded, it only makes sense that Paul would need to address women in this matter as well. But he excluded women, therefore it could be concluded he excluded them because the matter of leadership only applied to men.

But I beg to differ that this was a one time exceptional case. The Proverbs spoke many times of men being careful of adultresses and loose women. Sometimes we take too prude of a view of Biblical times. People were not all pure and women had more rights than we claim. Then when we get in Jesus` time under Roman rule and influence, I think women having more than one husband was probably more common than we think. Even today a woman having married 7 times and now living with a man is rather shocking unless it`s a Hollywood actress. But this woman did it. Perhaps women having more than one husband was more common than what we like to imagine. The fact is, women having multiple husbands did happen in that time. It is Biblically recorded.

I don`t know why women want to fight the Bible when it talks about women. What is so bad or demeaning about men being leaders in the home and church? It doesn`t devalue women. We don`t have to fight it. God`s design is good. We can enjoy it. Being a woman is a wonderful thing and following God`s design is lovely. It allows a woman to blossom into her full feminity and feel beautiful, soft, gentle, and cared for. God knows what women desire and need because God gave women a certain nature, and God`s design for the home and church allows a woman`s needs to be met and fullfilled if she will submit and men will take the reigns. It`s a good design and benefits men, women, and children alike.

Also, we women have our own calling Titus 2:3-5 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
<SUP id=en-KJV-29913 class=versenum>4</SUP>That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, <SUP id=en-KJV-29914 class=versenum>5</SUP>To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. "

Why as women do we feel we must abandon our God given duties as Titus 2 calls? Why do we prefer to upsurp men and grab the pulpit? or other manly duties in the body?

As women we have ignored our duties and the result has been society and the church have suffered for it. There`s no reason the divorce rate among Christians should be equal to nonChristians if the older women were helping the younger women learn to love their husbands and care for theirs homes, but we ignore our hurting sisters in search of bigger, better things.

Are you aware that women abuse their children more than men do? But this should not be happening if Christian women were taking our God given duties more seriously. Society says that women have a natural maternal instinct so we are naturally loving and nurturing to our children, but the Bible says differently. The Bible says a woman has to be taught how to love her children. Mothering is an extremely difficult task, but we have a generation that says "I raised my children by myself without anyone`s help so what`s wrong with these young mothers that they can`t too?" This is hard hearted and far from God`s design. Children and society suffer when women run from our duties from our homes and our sisters. Our duties to our homes, husbands, children, and sisters in Christ is more than enough to keep us busy.

When we hear in the news about a divorced mom that abuses or kills her child so she can enjoy a relationship with another man, we shake our heads and say what a pathetic mom she was, but it does not occur to us that maybe we helped create such a situation because if we Christian women were standing by to support other women in their marriages and raising their children and coping with the challenges in life, maybe the incidences of divorce and abuse would go down. We Christian women are really failing in our duty. We don`t need to be pastors because we have not even done our first task to free us up to take on another.

Just to conclude, the God given role of women is enormous. The saying "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" is not a far fetched saying. It contains great truth.

<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_1_0597ee04-9f56-4e17-a370-23a40bc942fd --><STYLE>.AOLWebSuite .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink { height: 1px; width: 1px; overflow: hidden; } .AOLWebSuite a {color:blue; text-decoration: underline; cursor: pointer} .AOLWebSuite a.hsSig {cursor: default}</STYLE><LINK rel=stylesheet type=text/css href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/33354/css/microformat.css">

Wow! Great post, wonderful insight.

 

[Sam21]

Coming from a women following closely up your rear....

I know little girls and young women---many of them---who have been raised on the word of God and know their place in the family of God and they know they can aspire to pastor. Pastoring isn't always a spiritual gift. It is a common result of walking with God daily. We are commanded to be disciples. Don't you care for people you are discipling? That is pastoring.

I know I have pastored, as well as fulfilled my role as a woman, wife and mother in the home. The two do not conflict.

As far as pastoring as a church position, I know many female pastors, and my mother was one, also. These women are working out of a spiritual gift. Holy Spirit doesn't do a plumbing check before he divvies out His gifts. He is no respecter of persons...Jesus wasn't either.

You seem like an intelligent person, surely you recognize that God would never led a female to aspire to a position of authority over men in the church when God had already spoken through Paul that a woman was not to be in authority over men in the church.
I don't really understand the mind set that wants to be "over" other people, I am a male and I have never tried to be over anyone and do not want to, however I have spent my life in study of the bible and how the Lord works and I probably know more then many pastors...the mind set that wants to be above is already wrong.

 

[Sam21]

On more word,God does check the plumbing,all the apostles were male, the leader of the first church was male(James), the persons picked to write the New Testament were all males. God absolutely does recognize male and female and in that order because that was God's order of creation. Satan is the author of unisex, God is the author of male and female.

 

[Alabaster]

Thank you for your answer...but if this is the case, then why does Paul by inspiration of the Spirit draw a direct correlation between the marital relationship and the church?

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. (Eph 5:22-23)

Well, that leads to the usual 'kephale' debate, where the 'kephale' Paul used in that sense, means, 'origin'.

 

[reba]

On more word,God does check the plumbing,all the apostles were male, the leader of the first church was male(James), the persons picked to write the New Testament were all males. God absolutely does recognize male and female and in that order because that was God's order of creation. Satan is the author of unisex, God is the author of male and female.

Worth repeating

Satan is the author of unisex, God is the author of male and female

 

[Alabaster]

I was replying to your statement and I quote your words "In a time when scripture was written, women were never wives of more than one husband--that was just not done. They were considered chattel, and not free to accumulate spouses like men were! Therefore it would be stupid for Paul to declare an edict concerning women and multiple spouses."

You said women "never" had more than one husband so I simply gave a Bible verse that showed VERY differently. You said Paul would be "stupid" to "declare an edict" for women with multiple husbands because it just didn`t happen. Yet the Bible clearly says it did happen. This was your argument that women can indeed be pastors because Paul did not need to address women since women would never have more than one husband. That was your argument and your words, and I was showing Biblically that is not correct.

It has nothing to do with it. We are talking about women in the Church. The Samaritan woman was not even a believer, let alone an anointed woman for ministry.

 

[theLords]

Are you sure about that satan creator of unisex comment?

:o

Galatians 3:28 (NIV)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Alabaster]

Also, we women have our own calling Titus 2:3-5 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
<sup id="en-KJV-29913" class="versenum">4</sup>That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, <sup id="en-KJV-29914" class="versenum">5</sup>To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. "

Are all women aged?

 

[Alabaster]

Just to conclude, the God given role of women is enormous. The saying "the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world" is not a far fetched saying. It contains great truth.

Of course that is a secular statement, but just to be fair, men are called to nurture too. A hairy-knuckled hand on that cradle is just as welcome.

 

[Alabaster]

You seem like an intelligent person,

Thank you, God has blessed me.

surely you recognize that God would never led a female to aspire to a position of authority over men in the church when God had already spoken through Paul that a woman was not to be in authority over men in the church.

The truth is that no one should be aspiring at all. This is a calling of God by the Holy Spirit. He doesn't just call men, as much as you want to believe it.

God never says that a woman cannot have church authority. He says a woman must not usurp it---that means to seize it or wrest it away from someone.

u·surp

  <!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) --><script language="javascript">AC_FL_RunContent = 0;</script><script type="text/javascript">var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "15", "<img src=\"http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif\" border=\"0\" alt=\"usurp pronunciation\" />", "6");interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high");interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t");interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fsp.dictionary.com%2Fdictstatic%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FU01%2FU0176400.mp3&clkLogProxyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fwhatzup.html&t=a&d=d&s=di&c=a&ti=1&ai=51359&l=dir&o=0&sv=00000000&ip=18662634&u=audio"); interfaceflash.addParam('wmode','transparent');interfaceflash.write();</script><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/d/g/speaker.swf" id="speaker" quality="high" loop="false" menu="false" salign="t" flashvars="soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fsp.dictionary.com%2Fdictstatic%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FU01%2FU0176400.mp3&clkLogProxyUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fwhatzup.html&t=a&d=d&s=di&c=a&ti=1&ai=51359&l=dir&o=0&sv=00000000&ip=18662634&u=audio" wmode="transparent" align="texttop" height="15" width="17"><noscript></noscript> /yuˈsɜrp, -ˈzɜrp/ Show Spelled[yoo-surp, -zurp] Show IPA<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
–verb (used with object) 1. to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right: The pretender tried to usurp the throne.

2. to use without authority or right; employ wrongfully: The magazine usurped copyrighted material.


–verb (used without object) 3. to commit forcible or illegal seizure of an office, power, etc.; encroach.

Synonyms:

accroach, annex, appropriate, arrogate, assume, barge in, butt in, clap hands on, commandeer, cut out, displace, elbow in, get hands on, grab, grab hold of, highjack, infringe upon, lay hold of, muscle in, preempt, seize, squeeze in, supplant, swipe, take, work in, worm in, wrest

I don't really understand the mind set that wants to be "over" other people, I am a male and I have never tried to be over anyone and do not want to, however I have spent my life in study of the bible and how the Lord works and I probably know more then many pastors...the mind set that wants to be above is already wrong.

I don't understand that, either. It isn't of God but is a problem with carnality...and I see---pride.

 

[Alabaster]

On more word,God does check the plumbing,all the apostles were male, the leader of the first church was male(James), the persons picked to write the New Testament were all males. God absolutely does recognize male and female and in that order because that was God's order of creation. Satan is the author of unisex, God is the author of male and female.

Don't be foolish. Jesus was being kind to women, for they would have been quickly stoned for sure had they received the anointing that His twelve received. He instituted change to the world in His chosen way, in increments, through His affirmations of women and through His training up His Apostles in their church planting endeavours.

There was no order of creation that signifies hierarchy. There was only chronology.

Satan has attacked the church in 5 areas:

1. The workforce (he halved it)
2. Men and their ministry (affected by Pride)
3. Women (abuse, denigrate, deny and rob of identity)
4. God's character (bias against women tries to teach the world that God is unjust)
5. God's image (Satan uses the rejection issue and emotional woundings to destroy the revelation of the image of God through the unity of man and woman in all areas)

Satan hates us, folks! He loves this discord and this misunderstanding of God's intent for all of us to be equally serving Him, shoulder to shoulder as He created us in the first place! In Christ, we can show the world exactly how it is supposed to be...not buying into the culture that has hated women for centuries. The Greeks hated women, and the Romans also. There is still a powerful remnant of those eras that heavily influences our culture so many centuries removed.

 

[reba]

Yup Lords i am sure about it we both know the context Sam was using.

 

[Hitch]

Don't be foolish. Jesus was being kind to women, for they would have been quickly stoned for sure had they received the anointing that His twelve received. He instituted change to the world in His chosen way, in increments, through His affirmations of women and through His training up His Apostles in their church planting endeavours.

There was no order of creation that signifies hierarchy. There was only chronology.

Satan has attacked the church in 5 areas:

1. The workforce (he halved it)
2. Men and their ministry (affected by Pride)
3. Women (abuse, denigrate, deny and rob of identity)
4. God's character (bias against women tries to teach the world that God is unjust)
5. God's image (Satan uses the rejection issue and emotional woundings to destroy the revelation of the image of God through the unity of man and woman in all areas)

Satan hates us, folks! He loves this discord and this misunderstanding of God's intent for all of us to be equally serving Him, shoulder to shoulder as He created us in the first place! In Christ, we can show the world exactly how it is supposed to be...not buying into the culture that has hated women for centuries. The Greeks hated women, and the Romans also. There is still a powerful remnant of those eras that heavily influences our culture so many centuries removed.

Proof that credibility can go below zero.