Bible Study Works of the Law and Good Works - part 1

[Jim Parker]

I am repeatedly told, by those who say we have no part in our own salvation that, according to Ephesians 2:8-9, we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

My response is invariably, “What did Paul say next after Ephesians 2:9?” And, in the very next verse, which is almost always neglected, Paul said:

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10 NKJV)

What Paul means by saying that we are "created in Christ Jesus to do good works" is that doing good works is mankind’s calling. They are the fruit that believers are to continually bear (“walk in them”) and, by doing so, to remain in Christ. That is what Jesus was talking about according to John 15:2-6.

Just how important are the “good works/fruit” that a believer is to do/bear, to walk in them?

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

I am the vine, you are the branches.

He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Those are the same works, or “fruit”, to which Jesus referred when He said,

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." (Mat 5:16 NKJV)

Can we assume that if someone refuses to do that for which God created him (Eph.2:10) and, not only that, but teach others to neglect God's purpose for their lives, he will be saved?

Such an illogical assumption has absolutely no basis in scripture. Rather, Paul makes a distinction between “works” or “good works” and “works of the law.”

Continuing:

(Eph 2:11-12) Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

By the references to "the covenants of promise", Paul makes it clear that the "works" of which he was speaking in v.8 were "works of the Law."

As he stated elsewhere;

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 9:32 ... they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.

Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

 

[Papa Zoom]

nevertheless, you are not, in any measure, saved by works.

 

[Jim Parker]

nevertheless, you are not, in any measure, saved by works.

Nope.
It is because God is merciful that we are saved.
BUT...... (wait for it).......without those works, which are the evidence of one's faithfulness to God, no one will be saved.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Nope.
It is because God is merciful that we are saved.
BUT...... (wait for it).......without those works, which are the evidence of one's faithfulness to God, no one will be saved.

Name the works.

 

[Jim Parker]

Name the works.

See "PART 2" posts no. 3,5, 6 & 7.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I think we probably agree more than we disagree. Works are significant in the life of a Christian. Love others. Give to others in need. Think of others as more important that oneself. Be a servant. Seek to lift the other up. Be honest. Work hard. Go the extra mile. Show kindness. Speak the truth in love. Discover your gifts and use them to bring love to others. Do so quietly. Pray. Pray for others. Be sincere in you love toward others. We could go on and on with listing things the Bible calls us to do. All these things are possible by the power of the Holy Spirit of God in our lives. This is abiding in Him. Basically it's obeying Christ.

I don't like to talk about things like OSAS or "if you don't works in your life your probably not saved." Such discussion are not helpful. Harmful even. Particularly to Christians that grew up in a legalistic Church. It's easy to go from the truth of works in the Christian life to the legalistic aspect which is simply the wrong message to send.

God is for you. He loves you. That's the better message. He's gifted you with talents that you can use for Him. He's saved you unto good works. You have a place in His Kingdom! I would help others first recognize their place in the Body of Christ and then encourage them to exercise their gifts. All this theory talk about the necessity of works is just guilt trip stuff. (or can be)

If someone were to say to me that works aren't necessary to be saved I'd say they are right.

If someone were to say to me that works aren't necessary in the life of a Christian I'd say they are deceived.

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Eph 2:10)

This is a verse of encouragement, not of condemnation. We ought to encourage others unto good works. We are called to do good works. That's what we should focus on IMO. The positive message of being saved.

This link explains better of how I see it exactly. It's an easy read: http://www.ligonier.org/blog/good-works-christian-life/

 

[Jim Parker]

I think we probably agree more than we disagree. Works are significant in the life of a Christian. Love others.

To love others is Jesus' command.
If we do not keep His commands then He is not our Lord.

Particularly to Christians that grew up in a legalistic Church.

The problem with legalistic churches is that they encourage judgment of others; a behavior which Jesus specifically condemned and warned us that we would be judged in the same way we judged others.
ON THE OTHER HAND, besides having five fingers, we have extensive instruction FROM GOD (if we believe scripture is inspired by God) as to how a believer is to act.
Yes it is a balance. We don't get any special recognition because we did our jobs.
Luke 17:10 (NKJV) “So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.' ”
BUt, the parables of the talents clearly teach that Jesus expects us to DO something and that there are rewards for doing well and punishment for doing nothing.

My apprehension with the popular "Grace alone" teaching is that it tends to swing to the opposite end of legalism and encourage doing nothing at all. Methink Jesus no likie dat.

 

[Papa Zoom]

To love others is Jesus' command.
If we do not keep His commands then He is not our Lord.

The problem with legalistic churches is that they encourage judgment of others; a behavior which Jesus specifically condemned and warned us that we would be judged in the same way we judged others.
ON THE OTHER HAND, besides having five fingers, we have extensive instruction FROM GOD (if we believe scripture is inspired by God) as to how a believer is to act.
Yes it is a balance. We don't get any special recognition because we did our jobs.
Luke 17:10 (NKJV) “So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.' ”
BUt, the parables of the talents clearly teach that Jesus expects us to DO something and that there are rewards for doing well and punishment for doing nothing.

My apprehension with the popular "Grace alone" teaching is that it tends to swing to the opposite end of legalism and encourage doing nothing at all. Methink Jesus no likie dat.

Yes. Which is why Christians need to understand the whole council of God. I do have friends that would say that a person whose life is void of any works is just as saved as a works fill Christian life. They push back even harder than I do. I understand the inclination to hold on to Grace but not to the exclusion of other Biblical teachings.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes. Which is why Christians need to understand the whole council of God. I do have friends that would say that a person whose life is void of any works is just as saved as a works fill Christian life. They push back even harder than I do. I understand the inclination to hold on to Grace but not to the exclusion of other Biblical teachings.

It is a rejection of the teachings of God in favor of the teachings of man.
Who on earth has been given the authority to determine which parts of God's word are to be followed and which are not?
Who thinks he is smarter than God to say that any part of His counsel is not relevant?
I suspect that holding such a position is the result of poor teaching but it is astounding arrogance to refute scripture.

 

[Papa Zoom]

It is a rejection of the teachings of God in favor of the teachings of man.
Who on earth has been given the authority to determine which parts of God's word are to be followed and which are not?
Who thinks he is smarter than God to say that any part of His counsel is not relevant?
I suspect that holding such a position is the result of poor teaching but it is astounding arrogance to refute scripture.

I think it has to do with the idea that some have toward works. It's not a bad word and it covers a lot of territory. I like to think of it as a privilege that we get to use our gifts and abilities to preforms works. The truth of God's word should motivate the true believer towards good works. Knowing the word of God is to know what is meant by good works. If our actions are motivated by a heart of love toward others, then it's likely good works follow. I think love is the key.

 

[Jim Parker]

The truth of God's word should motivate the true believer towards good works. Knowing the word of God is to know what is meant by good works. If our actions are motivated by a heart of love toward others, then it's likely good works follow. I think love is the key.

Yes: "Motivates."
The Holy Spirit motivates and we respond by choosing to act on that motivation.
If someone ignores the Holy Spirit's motivation consistently, He will stop talking to him and go find someone who will do God's will.
And love is the Key.
We were created in God's image and likeness.
God is love.

1Jo 4:7-11 (NKJV) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Yes: "Motivates."
The Holy Spirit motivates and we respond by choosing to act on that motivation.
If someone ignores the Holy Spirit's motivation consistently, He will stop talking to him and go find someone who will do God's will.
And love is the Key.
We were created in God's image and likeness.
God is love.

1Jo 4:7-11 (NKJV) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.


iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

I'm actually a huge fan of living out one's faith on a daily basis. I recognize it as important. And it does take effort. It seems to me that we should be doing such as an expression of love toward God. What a privilege we have to serve in Christ's name! But only by the power of the Spirit am I able to love others as I should. And as I get older, and more tired, I have to depend more and more on His Grace (I'm 88 days from retiring).

 

[th1b.taylor]

I am repeatedly told, by those who say we have no part in our own salvation that, according to Ephesians 2:8-9, we are saved by grace through faith, and not by works.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)

My response is invariably, “What did Paul say next after Ephesians 2:9?” And, in the very next verse, which is almost always neglected, Paul said:

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10 NKJV)

What Paul means by saying that we are "created in Christ Jesus to do good works" is that doing good works is mankind’s calling. They are the fruit that believers are to continually bear (“walk in them”) and, by doing so, to remain in Christ. That is what Jesus was talking about according to John 15:2-6.

Just how important are the “good works/fruit” that a believer is to do/bear, to walk in them?

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

I am the vine, you are the branches.

He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Those are the same works, or “fruit”, to which Jesus referred when He said,

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." (Mat 5:16 NKJV)

Can we assume that if someone refuses to do that for which God created him (Eph.2:10) and, not only that, but teach others to neglect God's purpose for their lives, he will be saved?

Such an illogical assumption has absolutely no basis in scripture. Rather, Paul makes a distinction between “works” or “good works” and “works of the law.”

Continuing:

(Eph 2:11-12) Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

By the references to "the covenants of promise", Paul makes it clear that the "works" of which he was speaking in v.8 were "works of the Law."

As he stated elsewhere;

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 9:32 ... they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.

Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

A long post trying to negate the previous verse. I'm old and I am, maybe, all wet but these verses say different things if taken out of their context and in their context must be recconciled with one another. Before I was saved I helped people, all of the time but they bought me nada! The moment I was saved my entire world changed and I could not do enouigh to evr balance the proverbial scale but I worked everywhere I could becase I love God and I love God's people.

Some suggest I am earning Crowns, translated as poisition in Heaven but I consider that to be a poor endeavor to do good works for rewards, so I just worked and God will decide what, not me, not my workks.

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

If God has the ability to look on man's heart, can he not tell from that heart if a person is trusting the sacrifice of Christ for salvation? Since God has that ability and only looks on a man's heart to determine salvation, to whom does "works" by faith reveal salvation? It is for the benefit of mankind that faith is expressed by works and those works are by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith that others can see a difference in a person that has received salvation and a person that has no salvation. Mankind doesn't have the ability to look on another's heart to determine salvation

 

[Jim Parker]

And it does take effort.

That's the gist of what I'm saying. It takes some effort on our part; we have to cooperate with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Kidron]

Lets do the math.

Lets say there is no Jesus and no Cross and no blood shed.........Now, go and try to redeem yourself and pay for your own sins by good works, commandment keeping, Eucharist partaking, enduring to the end, memorizing the epistle of James or the entirety of Hebrews or Matthew 24-25, or any other self righteous effort you can dream up to restore your sinful self back to a Holy God.

I'll say it again...... go and atone yourself back to God, without Jesus and the Cross.
Cant do it?
Then you have found the truth.
Hoorah for you.
Here is the truth... The only way to be saved is to be equal to God in righteousness.
Can you do that using all your works and deeds and sacraments and water baptisms and sin confessing?
WHAT DID YOU SAY !!! ???
The fact is......No Law, no Epistle, no lifestyle, no bead twisting, no Mary Worship, no water baptism, no ANYTHING but Jesus can atone for you and your sins, that allows God to give you His Righteousness so that HE will accept you.
Salvation is God accepting you, and you cant cause this, and you cant keep it for yourself.
Once a person understands this, then they are in contact with the truth regarding WHO saves you, and suddenly GRACE appears in all its GLORY.
As Salvation is not of yourself, you are not the WHO that saves YOU., tho you might try it, and you might argue it blindly on a forum.
The simplified version of all this, is...... that Salvation IS Jesus.
Its HIM.
HE is salvation...HE is Eternal life.......Its HIM........and not some obtuse idea about striving to enter into God's space by your effort.
If you have him, you are saved.
If you have Him, then He is IN YOU, and once that is in effect, you belong to God.
Its really that simple.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Lets do the math.

Lets say there is no Jesus and no Cross and no blood shed.........Now, go and try to redeem yourself and pay for your own sins by good works, commandment keeping, Eucharist partaking, enduring to the end, memorizing the epistle of James or the entirety of Hebrews or Matthew 24-25, or any other self righteous effort you can dream up to restore your sinful self back to a Holy God.

I'll say it again...... go and atone yourself back to God, without Jesus and the Cross.
Cant do it?
Then you have found the truth.
Hoorah for you.
Here is the truth... The only way to be saved is to be equal to God in righteousness.
Can you do that using all your works and deeds and sacraments and water baptisms and sin confessing?
WHAT DID YOU SAY !!! ???
The fact is......No Law, no Epistle, no lifestyle, no bead twisting, no Mary Worship, no water baptism, no ANYTHING but Jesus can atone for you and your sins, that allows God to give you His Righteousness so that HE will accept you.
Salvation is God accepting you, and you cant cause this, and you cant keep it for yourself.
Once a person understands this, then they are in contact with the truth regarding WHO saves you, and suddenly GRACE appears in all its GLORY.
As Salvation is not of yourself, you are not the WHO that saves YOU., tho you might try it, and you might argue it blindly on a forum.
The simplified version of all this, is...... that Salvation IS Jesus.
Its HIM.
HE is salvation...HE is Eternal life.......Its HIM........and not some obtuse idea about striving to enter into God's space by your effort.
If you have him, you are saved.
If you have Him, then He is IN YOU, and once that is in effect, you belong to God.
Its really that simple.

hello Kidron, dirtfarmer here

AMEN! AMEN!! AMEN!!!

 

[Jim Parker]

Since God has that ability and only looks on a man's heart to determine salvation, to whom does "works" by faith reveal salvation?

Jesus said he would judge us by our WORKS.

Jesus said: (John 5:28-29 NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

How is that not clear to you?

Paul said: (Ro 6:2-10 NKJV) (God) will render to each one according to his deeds;
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

How is that not clear to you?

Are the explicit words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul not sufficient for you?

Why do you insist on refuting what JEsus and Paul specifically, explicitly and clearly said???

 

[smaller]

Jesus said he would judge us by our WORKS.

Jesus said: (John 5:28-29 NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

How is that not clear to you?

Everyone has done both good and evil. That much is pretty obvious. Those who claim they don't do evil are pulling their own leg.

Paul said: (Ro 6:2-10 NKJV) (God) will render to each one according to his deeds;
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

How is that not clear to you?

Quoting one side of the matters isn't really all that honest of an approach to the subject matters.

Here's really what Paul said:

Romans 6:
"to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first"

Followed shortly thereafter by this fact:

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Paul doesn't even attribute "doing good" to himself. But does attribute himself doing evil.

Now, go work the real scriptural math here on "works salvation."

Are the explicit words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul not sufficient for you?

Why do you insist on refuting what JEsus and Paul specifically, explicitly and clearly said???

Obviously your formula is missing some vital components and factual information.

Paul wipes out any notions of "works salvation." He kicked the legs out from under his own self earning anything. Exactly as Jesus proposed here:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Why would Paul hate his own life? Because he didn't do good by his own admissions, he did evil. Paul actually claimed to be the chief of sinners, after salvation. 1 Tim. 1:15. It's the exact OPPOSITE claim of most christians, who think to themselves, "well, I'm not THAT bad.'

 

[dirtfarmer]

Jesus said he would judge us by our WORKS.

Jesus said: (John 5:28-29 NKJV)… the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth
—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

How is that not clear to you?

Paul said: (Ro 6:2-10 NKJV) (God) will render to each one according to his deeds;
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

How is that not clear to you?

Are the explicit words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul not sufficient for you?

Why do you insist on refuting what JEsus and Paul specifically, explicitly and clearly said???

hello Jim Parker, dirtfarmer here

What you have established, by the perversion of those scriptures, is a salvation based on works .

What is the doing good that brings life? Feeding the hungry and etc. or is it what Jesus stated in John 6:63 " It is the Spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak, and they are life. in John 5:39 Jesus said," Search the scriptures for in them ye thing ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." Our eternal life is not in the bible but in whom the scriptures testify of, Jesus Christ.