Worshiping the Bible

[Mike]

This is what I've been saying (I used this very scripture in one of my posts).

To trust that merely hearing and affirming the truths of scripture and having correct doctrinal beliefs about things is what pleases God so you can be saved on the Day of Wrath is to make that knowledge a false idol that can not save at all. That is a deceitful and misplaced trust.

Only trust in God's forgiveness displayed in a life of obedience can save a person on the Day of Wrath. Merely possessing and acknowledging what is true in scripture is not what saves a person. That person has their trust in the wrong place. They are serving a false idol. Trusting in God's forgiveness such that it changes who you are, that is what saves. Merely possessing and reverencing an accurate account of that forgiveness, even sharing it enthusiastically, does not. It's enough of a problem among those who call themselves Christians that God saw fit to speak about it numerous times in both Testaments. The spirit of the Pharisee is alive and well in the church to this very day. And God has said much about it.

And who does this? Who holds that knowing scripture itself brings about salvation? This is not something Christians do!

This isn't to you JB:

I live to love the Lord out of a natural response to the Sacrifice Jesus made for me.
I seek His Kingdom rather than riches of this world.
I try every day to love the Lord.
I try to love my neighbor.
But,
I believe all of scripture including scripture written by Paul to be God-breathed.

Does this mean I worship the Bible?

 

[Stormcrow]

I believe all of scripture including scripture written by Paul to be God-breathed.

I'll take that as a shot across my bow.

I have never written that Paul's words weren't inspired. I have written that Paul wasn't writing to us, but that there are fundamental truths - inspired truths - we can glean from his letters.

Some people have a problem with that. I hope you're not one of them.

 

[smaller]

And who does this? Who holds that knowing scripture itself brings about salvation? This is not something Christians do!

This isn't to you JB:

I live to love the Lord out of a natural response to the Sacrifice Jesus made for me.
I seek His Kingdom rather than riches of this world.
I try every day to love the Lord.
I try to love my neighbor.
But,
I believe all of scripture including scripture written by Paul to be God-breathed.

Does this mean I worship the Bible?

Nope, no 'bible worship' in those sights.

The difficulty is always in the subjective dissections. For example the woman wearing veils/head coverings.

If we understand that Paul taught in mysteries, and only saw in part himself and was a part of the Church, the BRIDE the WOMAN...we can certainly see Paul wearing a 'veil.' Paul speaks at length about various veils. The Word of God in the O.T. was a type of VEIL over the revealing of Christ. A shadow veil.

But some will insist it is only regarding an external piece of cloth on physical women at that time when Paul penned the words.

There are always deeper matters behind the physical, but some will find fault with that approach and insist it only means a piece of cloth on a woman's head.

go figure.

s

 

[Stormcrow]

If we understand that Paul taught in mysteries

Paul neither taught in mysteries" nor in parables. His ministry was to reveal the gospel, not hide it!

The only thing "hidden" was to those who were perishing in their unbelief!

{25} For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; Romans 11:25 (NASB)

He's explaining the mystery to them NOT trying to hide it!

{25} Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, {26} but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; Romans 16:25-26 (NASB)

When Paul wrote this, the mystery of the gospel had been revealed to all the nations! Paul wasn't writing in riddles!

{6} Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; {7} but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; {8} the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 (NASB)

The only ones in not in on the mystery of the gospel are the ones who crucified Christ! It has been revealed to everyone else!

{51} Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51 (NASB)

Here he is explaining the mystery of the resurrection, not hiding it!

{9} He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him Ephesians 1:9 (NASB)

Again, the mystery of the gospel revealed! Paul does not teach in riddles!

{3} that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. {4} By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, {5} which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; {6} to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Ephesians 3:3-6 (NASB)

Paul is telling them the mystery that was revealed to him! He's NOT hiding it!

{32} This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:32 (NASB)

He explained this mystery, too!

{19} and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, {20} for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. Ephesians 6:19-20 (NASB)

Paul was asking for prayer to make known the mystery of the gospel with boldness: NOT to keep it hidden in riddles and parables!

{26} that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, {27} to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Colossians 1:26-27 (NASB)

No mystery here!

{3} praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word, so that we may speak forth the mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned; {4} that I may make it clear in the way I ought to speak. Colossians 4:3-4 (NASB)

Again, Paul is asking for prayer to make known the mystery of Christ, NOT to hide it!

I could go on, but I trust the point is clear: PAUL DID NOT WRITE IN MYSTERIES, RIDDLES, OR PARABLES! Everything he wrote was to make clear the mystery of Christ, NOT hide it!

 

[jasoncran]

thats too much to ask. paul didnt speak in mysterious. indeed.

he wanted us to know what the lord wanted. the bible isnt esoteric.

yes theres some parts that we dont understand but that doenst mean esoteriscm.

 

[smaller]

Paul neither taught in mysteries" nor in parables. His ministry was to reveal the gospel, not hide it!

Ah, I should have phrased that 'only allegories' as SC determines.

1 Corinthians 2:7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom-

There are many examples of Paul's deployments in this direction, and certainly using and applying 'allegory.' For purposes of the term 'allegory' I consider parable to be the the same term.

A couple of examples:

Eph. 5:
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



We are termed 'Bride' as an allegorical deployment. He is in effect 'our Man.'


Paul also linked 'fornication' to Korah and the rebellion of the O.T. against Moses. Didja see that one coming? Nope, not a sexual encounter in the bunch of that deployment.


Paul also taught Law as ALLEGORY, and did so by scriptural citings directing that way of decipher in the O.T. and from Jesus.



Gal. 4:
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;

Most can NOT hear the Law as an allegory. Yet hear this:

Psalm 78:
1 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

You are of course welcome to bypass those types of connections and ONLY see physical events. I'd say it's just a shortsighted method of study.



enjoy!

s

 

[Hitch]

Paul neither taught in mysteries" nor in parables. His ministry was to reveal the gospel, not hide it!

I could go on, but I trust the point is clear: PAUL DID NOT WRITE IN MYSTERIES, RIDDLES, OR PARABLES! Everything he wrote was to make clear the mystery of Christ, NOT hide it!

Well said.

 

[Mike]

I'll take that as a shot across my bow.

That was in no way directed at you.

I'll just say that some people believe Paul's words conflict with the rest of scripture and that his writings were not Inspired. Thus, when we place importance on the words that Paul wrote, they become hostile and claim we are worshiping the Bible and not the Lord. I believe dismissing what Paul wrote is more problematic than any drummed up "Bible worship" claim.

 

[Stormcrow]

I'll just say that some people believe Paul's words conflict with the rest of scripture and that his writings were not Inspired.

The "conflict" people see in Paul's letters lies in the fact that he was routinely writing to two different groups in the church (Jews who had come to believe in Christ and Gentiles who didn't have or know the Law of Moses), and was often - especially in his letter to the Galatians - trying to smooth out the differences between them. Failure to understand this can lead people to faulty conclusions.

This is no better seen than when he addresses the issue of eating meat that was offered to idols. It's a very worthwhile study to undertake to try and see that Paul was between a rock and a hard place with this issue. Yet out of his dealing with it, we get a very solid fundamental truth: don't use your freedom in Christ to cause another, weaker brother, to stumble. The "weaker brother" to which Paul refers is the Jewish believer in the church: he who believed himself still bound to the Law.

Of further interest to note: John addresses the same issue in his letter to the church at Pergamum in Revelation 2:14.

I may just have to open it up to discussion in the Bible Study forum. And, as I alluded to before, Paul isn't the only one who dealt with the issue. It really provides an in-depth look at the transitional period in the early church between Law and Grace; Jew and Greek.

 

[n2thelight]

Why is it wrong to worship the Bible? Read this:

[34] But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment. Matt 22:34-38 RSV

One cannot love the Lord with all their heart, mind, and soul while worshiping the Bible. In addition, the Bible cannot do for you what the living Lord can do.

How does one worship the Bible?The bible is the Word the Word became flesh....

I. The One Great Object of the Word


The first great and essential principle which must be ever present with us, when we study the Word of God, as a whole, is not to treat it as something which we have to interpret, but as being that which God has given in order to interpret Himself and His will to us.

i. This applies to Christ; as the Living Word.
When we speak of the "Word" we can never separate the Living Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; and the written word, the Scriptures of Truth.
Each of these is called the "Word," because the Greek word Logos is used of both.

Logos means the spoken or written word, because it makes manifest, and reveals to us the invisible thoughts.

It is used of Christ, the Living Word, because He reveals the invisible God. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, He being in the bosom of the Father, This one [hath] declared [Him]" (John 1:18).

It is not that we have to explain Christ, but that His mission is to explain God to us. He interprets the Father. And we have to believe Him.

The word "declare" in John 1:18 is important in this connection, and deeply interesting. It is from ek (ek), out of, or forth, and hgeomai (hegeomai), to lead. Hence the whole compound verb means to lead forth, to make known, to guide, interpret, unfold, reveal, and expound (Luke 24:35).* It is from this verb that we have the cognate noun Exegesis which means Exposition. Wycliffe renders it "He hath told out." The best Meaning is to make known.

[SIZE=-1]* The word occurs only in Luke 24:35; John 1:18; Acts 10:8, 15:12,14, 21:19.[/SIZE]
​

This is why Christ is called "The Word of God," because He makes known, reveals, and explains the Father.

This is why the Scriptures are called "the Word of God," because they make known the Father and the Son, by the Holy Spirit, the author of the Word.
Christ is "the Way" to the Father (John 14). He makes God known to us in all His attributes, will, and words. "I have given them Thy Word." It is always "THY Word" (John 17:8,14,17).

ii. In like manner the Written Word, the Scripture, is given in order to interpret, and to testify of Christ; and this is why (as we shall see as our next essential principle) Christ is the one great subject of the Word.

This is why the Holy Spirit is the interpreter of both. His mission is to glorify Christ (John 16:14). He receives and shows the "things of Christ" (John 14:15). But He shows them in the Written Word (1 Cor 2:9-14). And this is why it must be He and He alone who enables us to preach that Word.

Thus we have the Word in three manifestations:—
The Incarnate Word,
The Written Word,
The Preached Word.
There is no other. Christ reveals the Father. The Scripture reveals Christ. The Spirit reveals both in the written and in the preached Word (1 Cor 12:7,8).
How wonderfully does this magnify the preached Word; and show the solemnity of the charge in 2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the Word."
It shows how small and worthless are all the schemes, tricks and contrivances of present-day evangelists and mission preachers with their ever-new fashions and modern methods, when we see what a high and dignified place God has given to the Preached Word.
How careful should we be that nothing in our manner or matter should lower that dignity, or imply in the slightest degree that the Written Word has lost any of its power; or needs any handmaids or helpmeets.

"I HAVE GIVEN THEM THY WORD"
is the all-sufficient assurance of the Lord Jesus Christ, speaking to the Father. He did not say I have given them Aids to devotion. He did not say I have given them a Hymn-book, or I have given them thy Word AND something else.
He did not give anything instead of, or in addition to, that Word.
And that being so, we are assured that the Word which He gave is all-sufficient, in itself, to accomplish all the purposes of God.
The Word that is preached makes known the Written Word; the Word that is written makes known Christ the Living Word; and Christ makes known God our Father.

iii. Hence it is, that the same things are stated of both the Living and the Written Word, as it is well put by Joseph Hart:—
The Scriptures and the Word
Bear one tremendous name,
The Living and the Written Word
In all things are the same.

http://philologos.org/__eb-htetb/11.htm

 

[n2thelight]

SIMILAR PREDICATES OF "CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES." "His name is called THE WORD OF GOD," Rev 19:13.
They "pressed upon Him to hear THE WORD OF GOD," Luke 5:1. The Prince of PEACE, Isa 9:6.
The Gospel of PEACE, Rom 10:15. Jesus said,..."No man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME," John 14:6.
"Make me to go in the PATH of Thy Commandments," Psa 119:35. "Jesus saith unto him, I am THE WAY," John 14:6.
"Teach me, O Lord, THE WAY of Thy statutes," Psa 119:33. "I am...THE TRUTH," John 14:6.
"Thy Word is TRUTH," John 17:17. Christ—"Full of grace and TRUTH," John 1:14.
"All Thy Commandments are TRUTH," Psa 119:151. "These things saith He...that is TRUE," Rev 3:7.
"The Judgments of the Lord are TRUE," Psa 19:9. "Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal LIFE," 1 John 5:20.
"Holding forth the Word of LIFE," Phil 2:16. "A bone of Him shall not be broken," John 19:36.
"The scripture cannot be broken," John 10:35. "I am the Living Bread...if any man eat of this Bread he shall LIVE for ever," John 6:51.
"Man shall not LIVE by bread alone, but by every Word of God," Luke 4:4. "With Thee is the FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Psa 36:9.
"Thy Law...is a FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Prov 13:14. Jesus said, "I am the LIGHT of the World," John 8:12.
David said, "Thy Word is a LIGHT unto my path," Psa 119:105. "The Life was the LIGHT," John 1:4.
"The Law is LIGHT," Prov 6:23. "Thou art my LAMP, O Lord," 2 Sam 22:29.
"Thy Word is a LAMP unto my feet," Psa 119:105. "I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of FIRE," Zech 2:5.
"Is not My Word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord," Jer 23:29. "The Light of Israel shall be for a FIRE," Isa 10:17.
"I will make My Words in thy mouth FIRE," Jer 5:14. "To you which believe, He is PRECIOUS," 1 Peter 2:7.
"Exceeding great and PRECIOUS Promises," 2 Peter 1:4. "My beloved is...chiefest among ten THOUSAND," Song 5:10.
"The Law of Thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver," Psa 119:72. "His Mouth is most SWEET," Song 5:16.
"How SWEET are Thy Words unto my taste," Psa 119:103. "His Name shall be called WONDERFUL," Isa 9:6.
"Thy Testimonies are WONDERFUL," Psa 119:129. "Christ, the POWER OF GOD," 1 Cor 1:24.
"The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD," Rom 1:16. Lord, "Thou art GOOD, and doest Good," Psa 119:68.
"GOOD is the Word of the Lord," Isa 39:8. "Ye have known Him that is FROM THE BEGINNING," 1 John 2:13.
"Thy Word is true FROM THE BEGINNING," Psa 119:160. "From Everlasting to EVERLASTING Thou art God," Psa 90:2.
"The righteousness of Thy Testimonies is EVERLASTING," Psa 119:144. "Thy throne, O God, is FOR EVER AND EVER," Heb 1:8.
"Thy testimonies,...Thou hast founded them FOR EVER," Psa 119:152. "The Lord shall ENDURE for ever," Psa 9:7.
"The Word of the Lord ENDURETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:25. "Christ ABIDETH for ever," John 12:34.
"The Word of God...ABIDETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23. "Worship Him that LIVETH for ever," Rev 4:10.
"The Word of God LIVETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23. Christ's Kingdom "shall STAND FOR EVER," Dan 2:44.
"The Word of our God shall STAND FOR EVER," Isa 40:8. The STONE..."on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder," Luke 20:18.
"Is not my Word...saith the Lord, like a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer 23:29. Christ, "A STUMBLING Stone," Rom 9:33.
They "STUMBLE at the Word," 1 Peter 2:8. "Lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world," Matt 28:20.
"Thy commandments...are EVER WITH ME," Psa 119:98. "Christ may DWELL in your hearts by faith," Eph 3:17.
"Let the Word of Christ DWELL in you richly," Col 3:16. Christ said, "ABIDE in me, and I IN YOU," John 15:4.
"If... my Words ABIDE in you," John 15:7. "Hereby we know that He ABIDETH in us," 1 John 3:24.
"The Word of God ABIDETH in you," 1 John 2:14. Christ called, "FAITHFUL and true," Rev 19:11.
"Thy Testimonies...are very FAITHFUL," Psa 119:138. "Out of His mouth goeth a sharp SWORD," Rev 19:15.
"The Word of God...is sharper than any two-edged SWORD," Heb 4:12.*

[SIZE=-1]* Heb 4:12 probably refers to both the Living Word and the written Word also.[/SIZE]
​

"The Lord TRIETH the Righteous," Psa 11:5.
"The Word of the Lord TRIED him," Psa 105:19. Christ a "TRIED Stone," Isa 28:16.
"The Word of the Lord is TRIED," Psa 18:30. SIMILAR EFFECTS ATTRIBUTED TO "CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES." We are "BORN OF God," 1 John 5:18.
"BORN...by the Word of God," 1 Peter 1:23. "BEGOTTEN...by...Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 1:3.
BEGOTTEN...through The Gospel," 1 Cor 4:15. "The Son QUICKENETH whom He will," John 5:21.
"Thy Word hath QUICKENED me," Psa 119:50. "You hath he QUICKENED who were dead," &c., Eph 2:1.
"Thy Precepts...with them thou hast QUICKENED me," Psa 119:93. "He that eateth me, even he shall LIVE by me," John 6:57.
"Desire the sincere milk of The Word, that ye may GROW thereby," 1 Peter 2:2. "Christ hath made us FREE," Gal 5:1.
"The Truth shall make you FREE," John 8:32. "The Blood of Jesus Christ...CLEANSETH us from all sin," 1 John 1:7.
"YE are CLEAN through the Word which I have spoken," John 15:3. Christ "is able also to SAVE them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him," Heb 7:25.
"Receive...the engrafted Word, which is able to SAVE your souls," James 1:21. "SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus," 1 Cor 1:2.
"SANCTIFIED by the Word of God and prayer," 1 Tim 4:5. "SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all," Heb 10:10.
"SANCTIFY them through THY TRUTH. Thy Word is truth," John 17:17. "Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us WISDOM," 1 Cor 1:30.
"The Holy Scriptures...able to make thee WISE unto salvation," 2 Tim 3:15. Christ "HEALED them," Matt 4:24.
"He sent His Word and HEALED them," Psa 107:20. "Striving according to His Working which WORKETH in me mightily," Col 1:29.
"The Word of God which effectually WORKETH also in you that believe," 1 Thess 2:13. "The Lord Jesus Christ...shall JUDGE the quick and the dead," 2 Tim 4:1.
"The Word that I have spoken...shall JUDGE him," John 12:48. "I will go unto God, my exceeding Joy," Psa 43:4.
"Thy Word was unto me the JOY and rejoicing of my heart," Jer 15:16.
Thus we see that the Living Word and the Written Word cannot be separated. And we can understand also why they cannot be separated in the preaching of the Word.
To preach the Written Word without preaching Christ is not preaching at all. Neither is it done in the power of the Spirit.