Would Jesus sell His articles and the WORD HE PREACHED?

[th1b.taylor]

Ehh, cliché.
Everyone agrees that the Word of God is infallible and primary, but not everyone agrees on what every paragraph means.

Hmmm! No, most, even inside the Church Structure, do not agree that the Word of God, a.k.a. the Bible, is infallible and that requires that we be very specific in wording our responses.

In the mid-eighties, before I was saved, the Barna Group did a survey of the American Church Universal that demonstrated, through a double blind survey, that better than 98% of the Faithful do not believe the basic tenants of the Christian Faith.

And the previous paragraph is why so much of the Church Membership doesn't agree on what any given passage means, they do not even believe in the Holy Spirit, let alone have Him dwelling in their hearts.

 

[Classik]

then he can get a real job

Masterpiece!!!!

 

[Brother Mike]

It all comes down to how you define it. The extremes on both ends are pretty obvious, but the trick is knowing what is exploitation and what is fair compensation for creative work, say for example Billy Graham writing a book about the Gospel and charging for it.

In any event, the Apostle Paul certainly had no qualms about badgering churches for money. Of course, he was not looking to get rich, rather he was using the money for good works and to spread the Gospel, and I think that is the heart of the matter, what our intentions are.

Creative work? What? You could be Jesus Lawyer to help with the CD sells and books. I always wonder why the Word of God is not free, why I have to have a license to by a electronic Amplified Bible that is copy righted. People need money and to prosper, but it seems a bit off charging me for scriptures.

However:
Let me ask you all a question.

If Jesus Came out with his "NEW" CD and book. How much would it be worth to you?

Some answers here, are disturbing. Some of you need to change. Well, we don't want to make merchandise out of the gospel, it should be free. It's all about the money, God forbid I should have to pay out of my pocket to hear something that would give me life, freedom and change things around.

If Jesus came out with a new book, I would sell everything to buy it if that is what it took. It's not about the money, it's about what it's worth to you. Some think it's worth nothing and come up with reasoning behind it. Let me tell you, you can't put a price on revelation from God. Free, or not free, it's worth more than any value we can set on it. It should not be about Jesus being rich or not from book and CD sells.

Here is the other thing, I see a great lack of respect for the one getting the money. We are talking about Jesus, and I would rather Jesus have control of vasts amount of money from Book sells than Playboy. Some of you don't think so by your response. I respect the man.

Same with any other man of God. If they are working for the Lord, then what the Lord gives them has a great value.

Let me tell you, things are only worth what people are willing to pay for. It's called supply and demand, and if something has value to someone, even though it's dumb to us, it's what folks are willing to spend. The money is worth to that person for what they traded it for. Anyone price Super Bowl tickets? Is life giving revelation worth more than Super Bowl tickets?

My Church sows over 100,000 a month to ship free CD's across the globe. My Pastor is very well known and we manufacture night and day CD's to send out for free, shipping paid. Though it's all free someone has to pay for all that. My Pastor use to survive on those CD sells, and the Lord said send them free. A big step of faith there, but since 2005 we have not had to stop one time due to lack of money.

It don't matter though, my Pastor gets lots of hate mail from evil people concerning how He has money coming in. Haters will hate regardless.

The question is not about the money and questioning the man getting the money. Jesus will rule all things anyway, who is going to tell him He is not worth their money? Not me, that is for sure.

The question is how much is it worth to us. If it's free, will we still value it? If it's not free, will we spend the money to get it?

Would Jesus sell his material? To get the distribution, He would go with the best publisher, and best people to get his message out. It takes advertising and big names to even make people aware Jesus just released his new book. He would have to charge, like anyone else if it was going world wide.
Even my Pastor who has been around awhile, people are not even aware that all the material is free. We don't have the money to advertise like the big dogs........ Yet.

http://www.flcbranson.org/freedownloads-serieslist.php

Off to play some video games, and work on my "Free" prayer video's. Hope those turn out.

Mike.

 

[reba]

A man's got to eat.

Antipasta is a buddy of our very own Pizza

 

[Malachi]

I always wonder why the Word of God is not free, why I have to have a license to by a electronic Amplified Bible that is copy righted. People need money and to prosper, but it seems a bit off charging me for scriptures.

Why do you need the Amplified Bible? The KJV is free online, and it is indeed the Word of God.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

 

[reba]

When Jesus cleared the Temple note it was the temple not the local book store...

 

[Brother Mike]

Why do you need the Amplified Bible? The KJV is free online, and it is indeed the Word of God.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/

e-sword comes with the KJV for free. I do have tons of other bibles for e-sword, won't say How I obtained them. I study out of the KJV, and in my opinion it's the best translation of God's Word. The KJV is the only translation that keeps things consistent, like latter rain, and makes it easy to look up and compare scriptures.

 

[Kenny_ms]

No, brother, it all comes down to what the word of God says about it.

Oh, ye of little faith. Did God not feed Elijah?

Yes, God fed Elijah, and since it all comes down to what God's word says, we can ether wait for the miracle of being fed by Ravens or we can accept the miracle God provided by working through people that read what the word of God says, accept it, and pay these people a "fair" wage. We all know the difference between fair and going way over the line as some have already touched on.

Here is what the Bible says and Ravens aren't the only way Gods feeds his workers, as a matter of fact, I'd dare say God is more dependent these days on good people reading the word, obeying, hence, helping good people spread the word, than he is on conventional miracles.

1 Timothy 5:17-18 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward

Hey, for some people to give up their cash to help others, that's a miracle in itself, lol. All things are possible with God.

 

[jasonc]

then he can get a real job

I hate to pick. a chaplain the is the chaplain(senior pastor) of the assigned chapel is paid more then me. yet I have more time in then he does.some aren't worth a darn. others work way too much. so it depends.

 

[The_Epsicle]

The Pastor at my Church serves two parishes, he easily puts in 70+ hours a week. but we only pay him about $30,000 a year. We recently voted to give him a raise of $5,000 from the church budget because that simply isn't a living wage, he never complained, and he didn't ask for a raise we just gave it to him. If you can work a job and serve the church like he does then by all means do so! Just forgive me for thinking a human can't live without sleep, Pastoral care is a full time job that deserves compensation.

"And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”" - Acts 6:2-4 ESV

That is exactly what pastors do, they devote their time to prayer and ministry so why should we leave them with no way to feed themselves or their families? It's not a sin for a pastor to live by his ministry but it is a sin for someone to deny him the wages that are his due. None of this is about selling books or anything, this is about us taking care of our pastor's earthly needs since he takes care of our spiritual needs.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I was just wondering....if Jesus were to be with us today in this earth as the Godman, would He sell His teachings or preachings or articles or the Word - just like some Christians do today? Would He try to make money from those?

Jesus had his supporters for his needs; back then it was the women. And he would do the same today, and he would operate the same way. He would charge no money for anything. I'm not sure why there would be a difference in his modus operandi just because he'd appear in a different time in history.

Some churches do give out free literature. The Church of God sects all do (e.g. United CoG, Living, Philadephia, Restored, etc). As a matter of fact, that is one way to determine if a church is the true church. I'm not saying that one that hands out free literature is the true church, but I think the true church would had out free literature if indeed they claim to support the Kingdom of God. The money, of course, comes from Christian's tithes and offerings because that is their work. If you have that talent and don't know how to use it, that's one way -- and that was the point Jesus was making to give to someone who uses it properly that does not have it. It then is reckoned as your work as well. Don't bury it.

 

[Kenny_ms]

I hate to pick. a chaplain the is the chaplain(senior pastor) of the assigned chapel is paid more then me. yet I have more time in then he does.some aren't worth a darn. others work way too much. so it depends.

Agree, and we should be careful who we give to. And if we give to a lazy man or a one that's more about the money than spreading the word by mistake, that's all on them and between them and God. Thank goodness, some are so obviously shysters and preachers that really have no business at all representing God, that it makes it easy to know not to waste our money.

I know some won't know any better but I think it would actually be a sin to give to some preachers. I'm doing my best not to name names here, hope I can hold out.

 

[jasonc]

Agree, and we should be careful who we give to. And if we give to a lazy man or a one that's more about the money than spreading the word by mistake, that's all on them and between them and God. Thank goodness, some are so obviously shysters and preachers that really have no business at all representing God, that it makes it easy to know not to waste our money.

I know some won't know any better but I think it would actually be a sin to give to some preachers. I'm doing my best not to name names here, hope I can hold out.

military chaplains are paid by the taxpayer. but I see your point. some chaplains at the grade of 03(cpt) do have more of a responsibility then those at the chapel.

 

[Kenny_ms]

The Pastor at my Church serves two parishes, he easily puts in 70+ hours a week. but we only pay him about $30,000 a year. We recently voted to give him a raise of $5,000 from the church budget because that simply isn't a living wage, he never complained, and he didn't ask for a raise we just gave it to him. If you can work a job and serve the church like he does then by all means do so! Just forgive me for thinking a human can't live without sleep, Pastoral care is a full time job that deserves compensation.

I assume all churches don't work that way, but to be able to vote on salary? That's the way it should be.

And FWIW, a sincere man that works that many hours deserves a raise. Some of these men are so good that, if not needed, even some of their own money would be spent on helping others, and that sounds like one of them so, can't go wrong with a raise.

 

[Brother Mike]

The Pastor at my Church serves two parishes, he easily puts in 70+ hours a week. but we only pay him about $30,000 a year. We recently voted to give him a raise of $5,000 from the church budget because that simply isn't a living wage, he never complained, and he didn't ask for a raise we just gave it to him. If you can work a job and serve the church like he does then by all means do so! Just forgive me for thinking a human can't live without sleep, Pastoral care is a full time job that deserves compensation.

"And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.”" - Acts 6:2-4 ESV

That is exactly what pastors do, they devote their time to prayer and ministry so why should we leave them with no way to feed themselves or their families? It's not a sin for a pastor to live by his ministry but it is a sin for someone to deny him the wages that are his due. None of this is about selling books or anything, this is about us taking care of our pastor's earthly needs since he takes care of our spiritual needs.

The thing that bugs me is that believers are cheap and so in love with money, that it upsets them if some preacher is making a good living preaching the Word. I think Pastor's should have the highest paid job in the World.

I have heard believers saying that Pastor's should work a "REAL" job and preach. They place no value on the Word. Being a Pastor, Apostle, Teacher, Prophet, Evangelist, is a full time calling of the Lord. Just as the Lord directs his people to become lawyers, doctors, School Principles, Police Chef's. If your where the Lord said you should be, then that is your Job, and working for the Lord, should pay extremely well.

 

[Kenny_ms]

The thing that bugs me is that believers are cheap and so in love with money, that it upsets them if some preacher is making a good living preaching the Word. I think Pastor's should have the highest paid job in the World.

I have heard believers saying that Pastor's should work a "REAL" job and preach. They place no value on the Word. Being a Pastor, Apostle, Teacher, Prophet, Evangelist, is a full time calling of the Lord. Just as the Lord directs his people to become lawyers, doctors, School Principles, Police Chef's. If your where the Lord said you should be, then that is your Job, and working for the Lord, should pay extremely well.

In theory, I agree. However, things are already so out of hand with some of these preachers, it makes it clear if this were a super high paying job by default, we'd get way to many more insincere people behind the pulpit....again, we already have that because the shysters have made it a high paying job by taking it to TV and/or purposely confusing their congregation.

If, as in Epsicle's post, a sincere congregation could vote the pay up or even a pastor out/in if it should be necessary, I can see higher pay working that way.

 

[The_Epsicle]

I assume all churches don't work that way, but to be able to vote on salary? That's the way it should be.

And FWIW, a sincere man that works that many hours deserves a raise. Some of these men are so good that, if not needed, even some of their own money would be spent on helping others, and that sounds like one of them so, can't go wrong with a raise.

That's the way it is in all churches in the Lutheran Church Missouri-Synod, there's a problem with this method as well because if the Pastor sees a problem in the Church and addresses it he could lose his salary as soon as the next church council convenes. However that is the reason we have district Presidents who come in as an unbiased mediator when this happens, which is why church structure is so important.

The thing that bugs me is that believers are cheap and so in love with money, that it upsets them if some preacher is making a good living preaching the Word. I think Pastor's should have the highest paid job in the World.

I have heard believers saying that Pastor's should work a "REAL" job and preach. They place no value on the Word. Being a Pastor, Apostle, Teacher, Prophet, Evangelist, is a full time calling of the Lord. Just as the Lord directs his people to become lawyers, doctors, School Principles, Police Chef's. If your where the Lord said you should be, then that is your Job, and working for the Lord, should pay extremely well.

Exactly my point, maybe not the highest paid in the world but certainly better paid than they are. I'm currently going to college to become a Director of Christian Education so I'm probably biased here, but it's not the highest paid job in the world. Essentially I'm going to college for 4 years to get paid a little more than a fry cook at burger king, and if I want to become a pastor then that is a Masters degree in my Church(You have to be able to read Greek, Hebrew, and while not required Latin gets you a good ways too.), that's a lot of money for a job that doesn't pay a lot of money.

 

[Brother Mike]

Exactly my point, maybe not the highest paid in the world but certainly better paid than they are. I'm currently going to college to become a Director of Christian Education so I'm probably biased here, but it's not the highest paid job in the world. Essentially I'm going to college for 4 years to get paid a little more than a fry cook at burger king, and if I want to become a pastor then that is a Masters degree in my Church(You have to be able to read Greek, Hebrew, and while not required Latin gets you a good ways too.), that's a lot of money for a job that doesn't pay a lot of money.

That is a lot of education for little pay, when you consider that many who never went to school are getting lots of cash flow for preaching. Being able to read Greek and Hebrew is a whole level on it's own. One has to ask if all that education gives the revelation to help others that only God can give through meditation in the Word. Is it all worth it to get into ministry, that requires this secular education?

I use to Pastor a church, paid little, but I looked at going to Rehma Bible school to learn how to run a church, how to advertise, how to bring people in. I come to realize that as good as it all sounded, that God knows how to do all those things and can help.

Still, getting a degree will open the doors for more folks that would be willing to listen to you, and open other doors. Having a degree, despite the pay would be a good thing.

In theory, I agree. However, things are already so out of hand with some of these preachers, it makes it clear if this were a super high paying job by default, we'd get way to many more insincere people behind the pulpit....again, we already have that because the shysters have made it a high paying job by taking it to TV and/or purposely confusing their congregation.

If, as in Epsicle's post, a sincere congregation could vote the pay up or even a pastor out/in if it should be necessary, I can see higher pay working that way.

It works both ways Kenny. To be a successful pastor, you need for God to call you there, and to empower you to do that job. Lot's of Pastors should not be pastoring as God never called them to Pastor. They get frustrated, they get worn out, and there is no grace to do the job.
So, many God called, don't want to Pastor as they don't see how it would supply enough money to meet their needs.

Others, see being a Pastor as a way to get money out of folks. I just saw Miracle water for sale from a certain TV Pastor. If folks are dumb enough to buy it, let that Pastor make money. Miracle water beats selling Playboy Magazines.

One thing for certain, if someone uses the office of God wrongly (Not according to what they have as that does not make the man) then there is judgement. Having Jet planes, nice cars is just fine with God, but doing wrong is not OK with God. God is not hung up on amounts, or gets sticker shock.

Listening to Jim Baker who lives down the street from me, He went through a horrible time in federal prison, had cancer, lost his wife, lost all he stole from people with false promises. He can tell you want can happen to someone who does no obey God, or heed the warnings.
Judgement may seem to take some time, but it does come.

be blessed.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Others, see being a Pastor as a way to get money out of folks. I just saw Miracle water for sale from a certain TV Pastor. If folks are dumb enough to buy it, let that Pastor make money. Miracle water beats selling Playboy Magazines.

I don't know, if I were selling Playboy, at least I'd be honest about what I was doing. I think I'd likely rather do that than "sell God". No telling what the good Lord has in store for those that do...it can't be pretty.

 

[The_Epsicle]

That is a lot of education for little pay, when you consider that many who never went to school are getting lots of cash flow for preaching. Being able to read Greek and Hebrew is a whole level on it's own. One has to ask if all that education gives the revelation to help others that only God can give through meditation in the Word. Is it all worth it to get into ministry, that requires this secular education?

It's not a secular education, your bachelor's degree can be any degree of your choosing, but the master's must be done at one of our seminaries where you will learn Greek, Hebrew, the finer points of doctrine, and how to give good counsel(not something you can really teach but they go over it anyway) after which you will go on a vicarage to shadow a pastor, after your vicarage if you've passed all the requirements satisfactorily you will be ordained as a pastor and will wait to receive a call, usually the time until your first call is 1 week to 2 months.