Would Jesus sell His articles and the WORD HE PREACHED?

[Brother Mike]

It's not a secular education, your bachelor's degree can be any degree of your choosing, but the master's must be done at one of our seminaries where you will learn Greek, Hebrew, the finer points of doctrine, and how to give good counsel(not something you can really teach but they go over it anyway) after which you will go on a vicarage to shadow a pastor, after your vicarage if you've passed all the requirements satisfactorily you will be ordained as a pastor and will wait to receive a call, usually the time until your first call is 1 week to 2 months.

As long as the doctrine is good. I am a little skeptical of these schools teaching doctrine. I am for shadowing a Pastor that knows what they are doing. Follow after those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. Lot's of what ministers learn come from following the same.

I did try to take a college accredited bible course years back online. It looked good, but there was a section on healing, and explaining that we don't see this, or that today, and the real healing is inside. It also mentioned we can get some Gold nuggets through scriptures, and I was thinking........... We teach to walk by sight and our experiences? There are some gold nuggets? That was enough for me. I wish you well on this. Study hard.

I don't know, if I were selling Playboy, at least I'd be honest about what I was doing. I think I'd likely rather do that than "sell God". No telling what the good Lord has in store for those that do...it can't be pretty.

I think this. Jesus said be hot or cold. Playboy does not attempt to cover up what it is. Miracle water is a clear deception. Thinking about it though, confused folks buy Playboy, and confused folks buy Miracle water. If nobody was confused, then nobody would buy these things and they would go out of business.

Someone is going to take the confused persons money. Might as well give it to us, right?

I quit a time share selling job, though it paid good because it was my job to sell to people I knew the time share package would not benefit or be good for them financially. It bothered my conscience despite knowing if they don't hand the money to me, they would waste it on someone else.

Mike

 

[The_Epsicle]

As long as the doctrine is good. I am a little skeptical of these schools teaching doctrine. I am for shadowing a Pastor that knows what they are doing. Follow after those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. Lot's of what ministers learn come from following the same.

I did try to take a college accredited bible course years back online. It looked good, but there was a section on healing, and explaining that we don't see this, or that today, and the real healing is inside. It also mentioned we can get some Gold nuggets through scriptures, and I was thinking........... We teach to walk by sight and our experiences? There are some gold nuggets? That was enough for me. I wish you well on this. Study hard.

Thank you, I plan on studying incredibly hard. Our doctrine is "Sola Scriptura", if the Bible isn't clear about something we won't touch it with a ten foot pole. If you're interested I'd be willing to talk to you about it in a message(or you could read any of the following: "The 95 Theses" "Luther's Large Catechism", "Luther's Small Catechism", "the Smalcald Articles", "The Diet of Worms", "On the Bondage of the Will", "The Treatise on the power and primacy of the Pope", "the Augsburg Confession", "The apology to the Augsburg Confession", all by Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, and others as various statements to or about the Vatican and all(maybe not "on the bondage of the will") are available online for free), I'm just trying not to take this thread too far off topic.

 

[Deborah13]

Pastoral care is a full time job that deserves compensation.

Doesn't it depend on the size of the congregation one serves? If there are elders, financial board members, etc. the pastor should be letting them do their job. I've seen a pastor and his wife make what was a growing and stable congregation fall apart, when they came. They decided that they should not allow those people to continue in what they had been doing, and doing well, for years. Like a new president or king coming and firing everyone to set up their own administration, in this case themselves. Guess what, now they are leaving.

The thing that bugs me is that believers are cheap and so in love with money, that it upsets them if some preacher is making a good living preaching the Word.

Your pastor is quite well known and is on TV. Which is great advertising in itself. Not that I am holding that against him. I actually like him and my favorite evangelist is on TV, as well.

Others, see being a Pastor as a way to get money out of folks. I just saw Miracle water for sale from a certain TV Pastor. If folks are dumb enough to buy it, let that Pastor make money. Miracle water beats selling Playboy Magazines.

Grrr...... The one that got me the most, was the guy selling the cloths that he said had the sweat of his own brow on them. Buy one and get healed!! He is extremely well known.

 

[The_Epsicle]

Doesn't it depend on the size of the congregation one serves? If there are elders, financial board members, etc. the pastor should be letting them do their job. I've seen a pastor and his wife make what was a growing and stable congregation fall apart, when they came. They decided that they should not allow those people to continue in what they had been doing, and doing well, for years. Like a new president or king coming and firing everyone to set up their own administration, in this case themselves. Guess what, now they are leaving.

That depends, some things are delegated in the Bible to the pastor and the pastor only(like handling of the sacraments), however I don't know how the elders and financial board members could possibly be intruding on those duties. The size of the congregation is irrelevant, I live a town of 600 and the total attendance of both parishes my pastor serves amounts to 150, not large by any stretch of the term, but he visits the sick and counsels people in the community. There is a lot more to a pastor's job than the Sunday Service.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you, I plan on studying incredibly hard. Our doctrine is "Sola Scriptura", if the Bible isn't clear about something we won't touch it with a ten foot pole. If you're interested I'd be willing to talk to you about it in a message(or you could read any of the following: "The 95 Theses" "Luther's Large Catechism", "Luther's Small Catechism", "the Smalcald Articles", "The Diet of Worms", "On the Bondage of the Will", "The Treatise on the power and primacy of the Pope", "the Augsburg Confession", "The apology to the Augsburg Confession", all by Martin Luther, Philipp Melanchthon, and others as various statements to or about the Vatican and all(maybe not "on the bondage of the will") are available online for free), I'm just trying not to take this thread too far off topic.

Well, if your Solo Scriptura, then despite even being taught wrong in some places, or misunderstand what is taught, God can work with that. If the Word is the only source of truth, as it's written, then you will do great things.

When I first started to look for Help from God, Facing 18-90 years in prison, I had no idea how to make God happy. I certainly had not given him warm fuzzy feelings before I started to seek him.

I made a promise to him (Which is dumb, God don't make deals, it's his way or the highway) I told him that if I read it in His Word, I would believe it, no questions asked. I told him if it's not in His Word, I will discount it.

I had no idea you had to make Jesus Lord, not at the time anyway. I won't get into the Miracle of what God did for just believing a passage of scripture concerning the unjust Judge. I only did 21 months though.

So I take it a step further. I don't teach things not in scripture. I need something called scripture if it's going to be important in doctrine. God is Sovereign is not a scripture, Slain in the Holy Spirit is not a scripture, God answers prayer yes, no, later, maybe, who knows , is not a scripture. God consist of 3 that become 1 is not a scripture, and God is 1 that manifest as 3 is not a scripture.

Scripture only, and it has helped me weigh the enemy from what God is telling me, and separate my carnal thinking, from truth.
Some don't like it that strict, but I value the Word, and not what men make up.

It could be why God has used me in many Healing and other things. I read that if you believe in Jesus, you lay hands on the sick and they are suppose to get better and better (Recover) I just believed that, me understanding it is not important. If God said it, then it's so, and I am convinced it us that fall short of the glory and power of God and His goodness. It's never God falling short to help and deliver, being a great and awesome Father to many of us.

Don't give, as Paul said. Make your calling and election sure, don't be swayed if something does not set right in your heart. The Holy Spirit leads by the peace in our heart saying this is the way, not that way.

I am familiar with Martin Luther. I don't agree with some things like his misunderstanding of James, but He was very important to us and did some pretty awesome things. Anyone that would put their life on the line for Jesus and the Word is good in my book.

Mike.

 

[Brother Mike]

Doesn't it depend on the size of the congregation one serves? If there are elders, financial board members, etc. the pastor should be letting them do their job. I've seen a pastor and his wife make what was a growing and stable congregation fall apart, when they came. They decided that they should not allow those people to continue in what they had been doing, and doing well, for years. Like a new president or king coming and firing everyone to set up their own administration, in this case themselves. Guess what, now they are leaving.

Your pastor is quite well known and is on TV. Which is great advertising in itself. Not that I am holding that against him. I actually like him and my favorite evangelist is on TV, as well.

Grrr...... The one that got me the most, was the guy selling the cloths that he said had the sweat of his own brow on them. Buy one and get healed!! He is extremely well known.

I am grateful for the "Faith" message, blab it and grab it, whatever. Pastor Keith though gives the right picture and fixes lots of misunderstood teachings by Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin. Listening to some old Copeland teachings, it's pretty clear Kenneth had only part of the picture, but at least he trusted God, I'll say that much. Lot of our "WOF" folks that come to our church leave, because you don't get the oil wells they find out. It's not what you want, it's finding out what God wants, and how God wants to fix things. Folks don't like that after being told it's what we say that is important.

When Kenneth announced that he does not miss any sermons by My Pastor to understand faith, I was shocked. I am grateful for all those that taught faith and trusting in God. (Not the scam artist) We certainly need more correction from the Lord and more light on the subject.

Anointed Cloth:
I guess there is such a thing. We were given free a cloth that came from Kenneth Hagins church. There was like a field around it, hard to explain. Anyone that touched it could feel it. We don't put our faith in a cloth though, or pay for them. The anointing can stay in cloth, but every single believer has some type of power coming off them, even if they can't sense it. No scripture says we are to have faith in cloth, and it was just a after effect off Paul who was anointed of God.

Your the blessed Sister, how bout that?

 

[Deborah13]

That depends, some things are delegated in the Bible to the pastor and the pastor only(like handling of the sacraments), however I don't know how the elders and financial board members could possibly be intruding on those duties. The size of the congregation is irrelevant, I live a town of 600 and the total attendance of both parishes my pastor serves amounts to 150, not large by any stretch of the term, but he visits the sick and counsels people in the community. There is a lot more to a pastor's job than the Sunday Service.

They were not intruding on his duties as pastor. Previous pastors had no problem, they appreciated the peoples voluntary service to each other and to the Lord.
imo.....
He's under paid. 70+ hrs. week. hmm....Elders should be doing some of what he does in visiting in the sick, at the least. Maybe they are not qualified to pray for the sick or just don't have time.

 

[The_Epsicle]

He's under paid. 70+ hrs. week. hmm....Elders should be doing some of what he does in visiting in the sick, at the least. Maybe they are not qualified to pray for the sick or just don't have time.

The elders do some of that with him but the sick want to see their pastor and the elders and our pastor is happy to oblige, he also has to do it because some of them cannot make it to church to receive Communion so he brings it to them. I agree he's underpaid, so does our church but there isn't money in our budget to pay him better and IMO I don't think he would take it if there was.

 

[Deborah13]

also has to do it because some of them cannot make it to church to receive Communion so he brings it to them

Well, I learned something. I didn't know the Lutheran church believed that only pastors could administer communion.
Sounds like your church is very fortunate to have this man of God.

 

[The_Epsicle]

Well, I learned something. I didn't know the Lutheran church believed that only pastors could administer communion.
Sounds like your church is very fortunate to have this man of God.

Not necessarily required but preferred except in cases of emergency, we're very big on the sacraments being handled correctly.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Anointed Cloth:
I guess there is such a thing.

I'll keep it short, when we start talking Copeland and anointed cloths, I lean more towards what Reba said, get a real job that suits you and leave the preaching to the meek that are a little less interested in the money side of this.

And I hate to think that I am closed minded over anything, but I am in this area.

 

[Brother Mike]

I'll keep it short, when we start talking Copeland and anointed cloths, I lean more towards what Reba said, get a real job that suits you and leave the preaching to the meek that are a little less interested in the money side of this.

And I hate to think that I am closed minded over anything, but I am in this area.

Mentioning Copeland tend to get folks upset, for no reason. He visits our church often, He sent his grand-kids to go to our church and they grew up in our church. His workers are the most amazing, nice folks you will ever meet.

you don't have to be a Copeland fan. I'll say He has helped me greatly though, and I don't take anyone's word on things, but check it out for myself. I find the things I think silly, are often times the things I need to listen to.

I will tell you though, according to scriptures, Cloth can retain the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Not sure what use that will have for us, but Elisha understood the power of the anointing on him, raising that women son from the dead, and so do other men of God.

Claiming something is anointed, don't make it so, and selling them is bad, bad, bad.

Blessings.

 

[Kenny_ms]

Mentioning Copeland tend to get folks upset, for no reason.

I'm not upset and have good reason for the way I feel about him and others like him.

you don't have to be a Copeland fan.

Thank you.

I'll say He has helped me greatly though, and I don't take anyone's word on things, but check it out for myself.

So do I.

I find the things I think silly, are often times the things I need to listen to.

This goes beyond silly things.

Anyway, nothing to debate here, old news..... people know these preachers well.....and in the end will make their own choices.

 

[Brother Mike]

I'm not upset and have good reason for the way I feel about him and others like him.

you don't have to be a Copeland fan.

Thank you.

I'll say He has helped me greatly though, and I don't take anyone's word on things, but check it out for myself.

So do I.



This goes beyond silly things.

Anyway, nothing to debate here, old news..... people know these preachers well.....and in the end will make their own choices.

OK, I was checking out anointed pray cloths. You can pick one up on e-bay even. wow.

 

[Kenny_ms]

OK, I was checking out anointed pray cloths. You can pick one up on e-bay even. wow.

Talk about your den of thieves, lol. I still buy there but almost every time I spend more than 20-$30 on an item I get ripped off and have to return it.

This is neither here nor there for this thread but it amazes me how many Ebay sellers give me that passive aggressive "Gog Bless You" when they rip you off and get mad because you won't let them. The ones that mention their religion in their adds are some of the meanest, most unfair there is.

I guess that does actually fit with this thread of using God and all to make money. At the very least, guess I needed to get that off my chest.

 

[Brother Mike]

Talk about your den of thieves, lol. I still buy there but almost every time I spend more than 20-$30 on an item I get ripped off and have to return it.

This is neither here nor there for this thread but it amazes me how many Ebay sellers give me that passive aggressive "Gog Bless You" when they rip you off and get mad because you won't let them. The ones that mention their religion in their adds are some of the meanest, most unfair there is.

I guess that does actually fit with this thread of using God and all to make money. At the very least, guess I needed to get that off my chest.

Many folks use "God bless you" "Your brother in Christ" to gain false trust. If you can't trust Christians, then who can you trust. I get weary when someone tells me they are a "Christian" business. Just because you have a fish sticker on your bumper does not mean anything.

 

[Michael74]

...so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. Act 19:12 NIV

 

[Kenny_ms]

...so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them. Act 19:12 NIV

Micheal, do you know where we can get some of those handkerchiefs/aprons that were actually touched by Jesus?

That is, assuming the "that had touched him" in that verse is referring to Jesus and not some pasture or some pasture that may have prayed over them as that doesn't count, at least I haven't seen it as biblical.

 

[Brother Mike]

Micheal, do you know where we can get some of those handkerchiefs/aprons that were actually touched by Jesus?

That is, assuming the "that had touched him" in that verse is referring to Jesus and not some pasture or some pasture that may have prayed over them as that doesn't count, at least I haven't seen it as biblical.

IN that verse they came from Paul. If you find one that can be proven that Jesus touched, we can sell that to Rome for millions.

Still, the Anointing in Jesus Robe healed the women that touched it. The anointing can transfer to cloth.

And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
(Act 19:11-12)

It also appears in the case of Jesus and Paul, you just don't take cloth and pray over it or sweat on it. It was just something worn and the Anointing of the Holy Spirit stayed in the cloth. How long you had to wear it, or the charge up rate is not given.

 

[Kenny_ms]

IN that verse they came from Paul. If you find one that can be proven that Jesus touched, we can sell that to Rome for millions.

Still, the Anointing in Jesus Robe healed the women that touched it. The anointing can transfer to cloth.

And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
(Act 19:11-12)

It also appears in the case of Jesus and Paul, you just don't take cloth and pray over it or sweat on it. It was just something worn and the Anointing of the Holy Spirit stayed in the cloth. How long you had to wear it, or the charge up rate is not given.

Yeah, I don't doubt it worked with Jesus and evidently Paul.

As for sweating on it, I think that only works if you want the anointing of Elvis.