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-You be the judge for how near we are to the End-

E

Elijah674

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Back in E.G.W.'s day, she penned that when we saw one disaster following on the heels of another, then it was this sign that Christ would be coming.

Matt. 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

--Elijah
 
This IS tribulation:

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

There is no tribulation to the Perfect, but to the 'in part' being done away.

We have been effectively brainwashed to FEAR tribulation when in fact there is GREAT JOY to be had therein:

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Again, that is a PICTURE of our own imperfections being DONE AWAY with and changed.

Tribulation is to imperfection as and when it is shaken off and away by the arrival of Perfection.

s
 
Because I know that EGW was a false prophet, I'm wondering if this is just some sort of exercise in reverse psychology.;)
 
I am not going to Put down EGW, She lived in a time when you did not have bible study programs and I believe she did a good work. Her heart was right in my opinion. Having a right heart though does not make you right. I believe she was mislead by a lot of these visions and did not know enough to understand that everything needs backed by scripture.

Concerning Jesus coming? If your a Post tribber, then you know that exact day as it follows the release of the sixth seal and people will start to hide. So figuring out the day tribulation starts would be what you want. If your a Pre-tribber then supposedly the Lord can come for the church at any given time. I have to point out though in both cases we must first get this gospel all over the world and still have several years of work to do. God wishes nobody perish so I suspect we are in a time of Grace to get this accomplished.

Mike.
 
I look at everything going on, and from what I can tell it wouldn't surprise me if the Lord came back tomorrow. I can also see where it may still be years also.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be...how we could gauge this? it's never been that bad before and we probably wont be able to tell for sure until it gets here. It might be worse now than it's ever been before, but I get the feeling from the tone of the passage I think it will get worse. Somehow I think much much worse.

And still, what are the following verses?? (and I am not teaching that we know the day or the hour)
Matt. 24
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Surely this will be something huh? Most already flock to the miracle 'wonders'! And it says... 'and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they [[shall deceive]] the very elect.'

--Elijah
 
Back in E.G.W.'s day, she penned that when we saw one disaster following on the heels of another, then it was this sign that Christ would be coming.

Matt. 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

--Elijah
Why would we need to listen to EGW and push her agenda - whoever she is - why not just read what it says in the Bible?

"And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. This must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in various places; there will be famines. These are but the beginning of the birth pains.

Mark 13:7-9 ESV
 
And another? 'I am not going to Put down EGW, She lived in a time when you did not have bible study programs and I believe she did a good work. Her heart was right in my opinion.' (funny stuff from a non/reader except what she had supposedly said will happen?) And what will one say about this???
--Elijah

9-11_National_Park_Service_Statue_of_Liberty_and_WTC_fire_sm.jpg
—National Parks ServiceNew York Skyscrapers Burn

Did Ellen White actually predict the September 11 World Trade Center attacks? Or did she prophesy of even worse to come?

The destruction of the World Trade Center towers was a horrible event, and has forever changed our world. Oddly, what took place that fateful day bears some similarity to a prediction Ellen White made at the beginning of the twentieth century.
The prediction

What follows is, in her own words, a vision or dream she had in late 1901. See if you think it sounds like what happened on September 11.

On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify the owners and builders. Higher and still higher these buildings rose, and in them the most costly material was used. . . .

The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: "They are perfectly safe." But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines.—Testimonies for the Church, vol. 9, pp. 12, 13.
After being falsely quoted as saying that New York City would be destroyed by a tidal wave, Ellen White added this clarification, first written in August 1903:

But I have no light in particular in regard to what is coming on New York, only that I know that one day the great buildings there will be thrown down by the turning and overturning of God's power. From the light given me, I know that destruction is in the world. One word from the Lord, one touch of his mighty power, and these massive structures will fall. Scenes will take place the fearfulness of which we cannot imagine.Review and Herald, July 5, 1906, emphasis supplied.
Of course, one might think that the above is talking about the second coming of Christ. Yet the following says otherwise. This selection is an adaption of a letter written in January 1901, which described yet another vision of falling buildings:


The time is right upon us when there will be sorrow in the world that no human balm can heal. Even before the last great destruction comes upon the world, the flattering monuments of man's greatness will be crumbled in the dust. God's retributive judgments will fall on those who in the face of great light have continued in sin. Costly buildings, supposed to be fire-proof, are erected. But as Sodom perished in the flames of God's vengeance, so will these proud structures become ashes.—Signs of the Times, Oct. 9, 1901, emphasis supplied.

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wtc_wayno_0500.jpg
—wAyno To summarize, Ellen White's late 1901 vision predicted:

  1. Skyscrapers would be built.
  2. These buildings would be considered fireproof.
  3. An alarm of fire would be followed by people on the ground saying that the "lofty" buildings were "perfectly safe."
  4. They would burn as pitch.
  5. The fire engines wouldn't be able to stop the inferno.
  6. The firemen wouldn't be able to operate their fire engines.
  7. The buildings would fall.
  8. The fearfulness of it all would be unimaginable.
What took place


wtc_wayno_185.jpg
—wAyno
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1. Skyscrapers were built in New York City. At the time Ellen White had this vision, one of the tallest buildings in the world was the twenty-six-story Manhattan Life Building in New York City, built in 1894. It was succeeded in height by the construction of the Park Row Building in 1899 and the Singer Building in 1908. Then the race was on as place after place and builder after builder strove for the coveted title of tallest building. Finally, in 1972 and 1973, the twin towers of the World Trade Center were completed, and held that prestigious title only until 1974. From 1908 to 1974, the world's tallest buildings were in New York City.

2. These buildings would be considered fireproof. Ellen White's specification that the buildings would be considered fireproof brings to mind the fact that modern buildings are composed of steel and reinforced concrete, materials that do not burn. This explains why such buildings are popularly called fireproof.
3. An alarm of fire would be followed by people on the ground saying that the "lofty" buildings were "perfectly safe." The total collapse of the towers caught everyone by surprise. No one expected the fires and impacts to bring them down. While the initial reaction of many people in WTC 2 after WTC 1 got hit was to evacuate, some turned around to their deaths after the public address system told them to stay put, since the building was perfectly safe:

"They told us there was an accident in tower one, that the fire department was on its way, that our building was secure and safe, and that we could return to our offices shortly," Hickey said.
"They kept saying, 'Repeat, building two is secure, repeat, building two is secure,'" Simmons said. "A number of people did turn around."
"'Stay where you are. This is a secure area. Please remain in the building. Stay where you are,'" Bartels recalled the announcer saying. "We didn't slow down. We just ignored it, kept on moving." It was 9:06 a.m.—"Lawsuits likely after WTC attacks," October 10, 2001, CNN.com.


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wtc_marengo_dsc07794.jpg
—George Marengo, NYArtLab.com. 4. They would burn as pitch. That the World Trade Center towers did burn like pitch, everyone in the world knows, for the planes that hit the towers unleashed their jet fuel with devastating consequences. And the pile of rubble kept on burning for months, hampering recovery efforts. Finally, on December 19, the fires beneath the rubble were declared extinguished.

5. The fire engines wouldn't be able to stop the inferno. Why couldn't the fire engines do anything to stop the blaze? The height of the buildings was not an issue for Fire Engine 6. Because of its proximity to the World Trade Center, it had been equipped with a special pump that enabled it to spray water up to the top of the towers. But you can't use water on a jet fuel fire, and there was no suitable fire retardant at hand. Thus, the fire engines could do nothing.

wtc_marengo_dsc07843.jpg
—George Marengo, NYArtLab.com.
spacer.gif
6. The firemen wouldn't be able to operate their fire engines. So the firemen couldn't operate their engines to fight this kind of fire. And if that wasn't bad enough, when the towers fell, over a hundred fire department vehicles became permanently inoperable.

7. The buildings would fall. The tallest four buildings of the World Trade Center, WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 3, and WTC 7, all completely fell. Large portions of the three much shorter buildings fell as well.
8. The fearfulness of it all would be unimaginable. Yes, the whole thing was unimaginable: a) Hollywood script writers hadn't dreamed up a catastrophe quite like this one. b) Could the airlines, could the government, could the Port Authority have prevented all of this? No, we have been told, for no one imagined that something like this would happen.
And there's more

Did Ellen White's prediction include anything about why all of this might have happened? What about where she said that "in [these buildings] the most costly material was used"? What do critics have to say about the matter? We'll investigate these questions in "September 11: Why Did God Allow It?" and "A Critic's View of September 11."

Rather than being the fulfillment of Mrs. White's statement in Testimonies, vol. 9, pp. 12, 13 (quoted at the beginning of this article), could it be that the World Trade Center was just a foretaste of what will be the ultimate fulfillment of Ellen White's predictions?
Was Ellen White's 1901 vision fulfilled on September 11?
 
I look at everything going on, and from what I can tell it wouldn't surprise me if the Lord came back tomorrow. I can also see where it may still be years also.

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be...how we could gauge this? it's never been that bad before and we probably wont be able to tell for sure until it gets here. It might be worse now than it's ever been before, but I get the feeling from the tone of the passage I think it will get worse. Somehow I think much much worse.

death by the hands of satan is worse then being alive in the lord when we awake with our eyes to see him?

I don't recall any promise from god to save men from martyrdom. jesus wasn't spared what makes us that special?i do recall the flood was an out pouring of God's wrath and now man was spared from that unless in the arc.
 
NOPE, Elijah isn't sda. uhm. the church didn't need the signs and clear statement of look for these signs when they penned the gospel. it wasn't meant for that them to look.

odd, that isn't how the church before the 1800's saw things.
 
NOPE, Elijah isn't sda. uhm. the church didn't need the signs and clear statement of look for these signs when they penned the gospel. it wasn't meant for that them to look.

odd, that isn't how the church before the 1800's saw things.

True, yet we are told to look & use some knowledge? 1 Thess. 5:1-5!

And why not check out Jude
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

And where are we at, at this present time???

--Elijah
 
NOPE, Elijah isn't sda. uhm. the church didn't need the signs and clear statement of look for these signs when they penned the gospel. it wasn't meant for that them to look.

odd, that isn't how the church before the 1800's saw things.

True, yet we are told to look & use some knowledge? 1 Thess. 5:1-5!

And why not check out Jude
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

And where are we at, at this present time???

--Elijah

oh please, Greece, rome and Egypt in the days of moses practiced homosexuality and beastility and also pedastery.
 
NOPE, Elijah isn't sda. uhm. the church didn't need the signs and clear statement of look for these signs when they penned the gospel. it wasn't meant for that them to look.

odd, that isn't how the church before the 1800's saw things.

True, yet we are told to look & use some knowledge? 1 Thess. 5:1-5!

And why not check out Jude
[7] Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

And where are we at, at this present time???

--Elijah

oh please, Greece, rome and Egypt in the days of moses practiced homosexuality and beastility and also pedastery.

And USA (with several catholics & 2 jew's & one jewish whatever?) making up the supreme court. (small letters!)
And what are we having for marriage vows? And Peter says that WE WILL GO RIGHT BACK [INTO] it!

--Elijah
 
sir, the fact that when my state made gay adoption illegal the lesbians lived together and raised their kids. the same is gay men. while I wont vote for gay rights. it would be ignorant to say that in the past that didn't happen.

the church is what is the problem, not the sinners in America.
 
As someone I used to know pointed out a lot--20, 30 years ago they were saying the rapture would happen soon. Yet here we are.

Of course, not everyone believes in the rapture, but I think this comment can apply to the end times in general.
 
Luke 21:36 NIV - Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

The bible clearly teaches if you are not watching, you are not going!
 
questdriven
As someone I used to know pointed out a lot--20, 30 years ago they were saying the rapture would happen soon. Yet here we are.

Of course, not everyone believes in the rapture, but I think this comment can apply to the end times in general.

I had a vision about a segment of the tribulation while praying in tongues. The Lord said I am coming soon at the very end. That was in 1998, so what is the definition of soon? I know of others back in the 70's and 80's that heard the same thing from the Lord. Soon would have to mean a preparation for something. Something that is going to take a lot of years to develop. It's going to take faith because we need to get this Word out all over the World. That takes money, time, and doors to open that never were open before.

Right now my Church is building a multi-Million dollar warehouse that will produce free DVD's and CD's to be shipped all over the World. We already spend over 50,000 a week doing this but the Lord spoke to my Pastor to build this facility to ship billions all free of charge. That is crazy if you think about it, our Internet bill a month is over 14,000 dollars.

There are other churches doing the same crazy stuff the Lord directed them to do. Stuff that would not even be conceivable a few years back.

So I see it started way back, I see how understanding through the years lead to the ability to believe for these crazy projects. I know see many crazy projects from different denominations coming to light.
I can say this, we are closer today than yesterday. Only supernatural faith and abundance can get this last push of God's Word out to the World and it's happening.

Mike.
 
questdriven
As someone I used to know pointed out a lot--20, 30 years ago they were saying the rapture would happen soon. Yet here we are.

Of course, not everyone believes in the rapture, but I think this comment can apply to the end times in general.

I had a vision about a segment of the tribulation while praying in tongues. The Lord said I am coming soon at the very end. That was in 1998, so what is the definition of soon? I know of others back in the 70's and 80's that heard the same thing from the Lord. Soon would have to mean a preparation for something. Something that is going to take a lot of years to develop. It's going to take faith because we need to get this Word out all over the World. That takes money, time, and doors to open that never were open before.

Right now my Church is building a multi-Million dollar warehouse that will produce free DVD's and CD's to be shipped all over the World. We already spend over 50,000 a week doing this but the Lord spoke to my Pastor to build this facility to ship billions all free of charge. That is crazy if you think about it, our Internet bill a month is over 14,000 dollars.

There are other churches doing the same crazy stuff the Lord directed them to do. Stuff that would not even be conceivable a few years back.

So I see it started way back, I see how understanding through the years lead to the ability to believe for these crazy projects. I know see many crazy projects from different denominations coming to light.
I can say this, we are closer today than yesterday. Only supernatural faith and abundance can get this last push of God's Word out to the World and it's happening.

Mike.
AMEN.
 
questdriven
As someone I used to know pointed out a lot--20, 30 years ago they were saying the rapture would happen soon. Yet here we are.

Of course, not everyone believes in the rapture, but I think this comment can apply to the end times in general.

I had a vision about a segment of the tribulation while praying in tongues. The Lord said I am coming soon at the very end. That was in 1998, so what is the definition of soon? I know of others back in the 70's and 80's that heard the same thing from the Lord. Soon would have to mean a preparation for something. Something that is going to take a lot of years to develop. It's going to take faith because we need to get this Word out all over the World. That takes money, time, and doors to open that never were open before.

Right now my Church is building a multi-Million dollar warehouse that will produce free DVD's and CD's to be shipped all over the World. We already spend over 50,000 a week doing this but the Lord spoke to my Pastor to build this facility to ship billions all free of charge. That is crazy if you think about it, our Internet bill a month is over 14,000 dollars.

There are other churches doing the same crazy stuff the Lord directed them to do. Stuff that would not even be conceivable a few years back.

So I see it started way back, I see how understanding through the years lead to the ability to believe for these crazy projects. I know see many crazy projects from different denominations coming to light.
I can say this, we are closer today than yesterday. Only supernatural faith and abundance can get this last push of God's Word out to the World and it's happening.

Mike.
My old pastor used to say that keeping an eye on the happenings in the Middle East and with Israel is the key to knowing when it's close. What do you think?
 
the church is what is the problem, not the sinners in America.
for sure Jason :shame

2Ch_7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
 
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