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-You be the judge for how near we are to the End-

IMO We must have a good understanding of the OT to grasp the NT.... The language of the NT relates to the OT... The pictures of Christ that run through the OT are astounding... The total layout of Moses' tabernacle. The Living water from the Rock in the desert . Josephs dream of the moon and stars....God did more than throw a bunch of great stories together for Sunday School lessons... Why all the 40s why the 7s lots and lots of whys? Seems the more I know of the OT the clearer the New becomes... In my mind the WHOLE of Scripture brings more understanding of the 'end times.'

I have understood a lot by studying the OT about Jesus and what He did. About God's grace, so many things.
But the 'end times' I am just beginning to comprehend. What an adventure He has laid out for us. No other book could be so fascinating. The OT is witnesses to the NT and vice versa.
 
IMO the OT looks to the The Cross the NT looks to The Cross.

The 'end' is just where we end up , end times, is not our destination :)


For sure Deb for sure
 
I was raised pre-trib and tend to hold to that, but to be perfectly honest after reading these types of threads in the time I've been here, I don't know what to believe anymore. xD
I guess it doesn't really matter, it's in God's hands.
 
questdriven
I was raised pre-trib and tend to hold to that, but to be perfectly honest after reading these types of threads in the time I've been here, I don't know what to believe anymore. xD
I guess it doesn't really matter, it's in God's hands.

What you believe does matter and There is still a pre-trib rapture of the anointed church. Just it gets old going over the same scriptures again and again after so many years. Hold on to your first confidence.

Mike.
 
In the end, it's about several things. One is whether 'In the world ye shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world' (John 16.33) means the same as 'then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be' (Matthew 24.21). To my simple mind, the tribulation principle of which the Lord Jesus speaks in John 16.33 is far from identical to the event prophesied in Matthew 24.21. Those who see the distinction tend to look to the coming again of the Lord Jesus for His people as the next great event for the church (1 Thessalonians 4.16-18).
 
sir, the fact that when my state made gay adoption illegal the lesbians lived together and raised their kids. the same is gay men. while I wont vote for gay rights. it would be ignorant to say that in the past that didn't happen.

the church is what is the problem, not the sinners in America.

We have no problem there! Rev. 17:1-5 . Yet, aids is running rampant all over the world. And what class of folks are the problem there? (all over the world)
Several months back Tom Brocraw on the evening news stated that it is in Bibical proportions.

--Elijah

aids, aids while it is a primary gay male and gay male bisexual issue, there are heteros that have that. don't assume that women and men in a sexual relationship cant commit sodomy.

You MISS THE POINT! This thing is world/wide. And it is just [[ONE]] of the vast number of Matt. 24:21 'TRIBULATIONS!' And then follows 23 with what comes next on the agenda. This is what will test ones purity.

--Elijah
 
I always get a kick that every time a thread like this comes up, you'll have someone quote the verse "no man knows the day or hour" as if to say...

"OK. That settles it. I don't know. I'm not gonna even bother looking. Case closed, next thread." :toofunny
 
Edward:
You can say that again brother! It seems pert darn clear to me. Many scriptures give specific events which must happen before His 2nd coming, and many others which speak of a coming in mystery. If one does not twist the scriptures to suit and reads it literally, it is clear that something else is going to happen.

Praise God. post tribbers need to examine two days here. The day of the Lord and the day of Christ. The Holy Spirit is very, very specific about every single word used, what was included and what was not included. Even down to the jot as Jesus said.

The day of the Lord

It is darkness. It removes the sinners from the earth. It's not a good day. It's after the 6th seal where many hide from the face of the Lamb coming. It's not unexpected event as it would be hard to hide the fact the sun, moon and stars are gone. It comes as a thief in the Night, but an expected thief and it will be dark, very dark. Some misunderstand Luke, as it plainly talking about the day of the Lord.

Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Things go dark, 1/2 hour of silence (7th seal) and you know He is on the way. He tells people that are expecting deliverance from the tribulation to look up, your redemption is coming.

Redemption is the Greek Word apolutrōsis

Strongs:
ransom in full, that is, (figuratively) riddance, or (specifically) Christian salvation: - deliverance, redemption

Thayer:
1b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom

Nasec:
to release on payment of ransom); a release effected by payment of ransom:

These people are looking up for their ransom to be paid in full, or redemption from tribulation and ransom paid. Those that be Christ's making it through tribulation.

As a believer Now:
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

We are not looking for our ransom to be paid, We have already been redeemed we don't need anymore payment or redemption. we are already bought and paid for and part of the anointed Church.

Jesus then talks about the fig tree (Watch Israel some believe) and says.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

He is talking to His Church here. We escape everything and that escape is not hiding us out somewhere but standing with Him. We are already paid for.

Day of Christ:
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

After the day of the anointed, no need to continue the work. Your with Him.

Php 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence
till the day of Christ;

Once again keep strong until that day of Christ. The day of the anointed (Christians or anointedians)

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul saying that day has not yet come, but at the day of Christ (Not the day of the Lord) we are gathered together to be with Him. His purchased Church which already belongs to him, not people waiting to be purchased or redeemed.

Just a piece of many that prove pre-tribulation. I could fill pages of course.....

Mike.
 
OK! Since the year of my birth. TV is on the scene. Telephone? And C.B.'s as well. And computers. And today we can warn the whole world in the matter of 'a few days' of the Second Coming of MY LORD!

So what is the hold up?? Only persecution ! ALL Rev. 17:1-5 ones joining the lost of Matt. 7's large [BROADWAY] group forcing through Caesar POWER the sun thing! (you need the force of Caesar as did old Israel) History repeats Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 for how God works with major things! See Gen. 41:32!

What will any of you agree on??? Just the one thing that has a violation with God. Because of LOVE for Christ + His 7th Day Sabbath requirement, this will be the test to see if one truly Loves Him!

Matt. 6
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (and the free choice will once again be Caesar over Christ!)

--Elijah
 
sir, the fact that when my state made gay adoption illegal the lesbians lived together and raised their kids. the same is gay men. while I wont vote for gay rights. it would be ignorant to say that in the past that didn't happen.

the church is what is the problem, not the sinners in America.

We have no problem there! Rev. 17:1-5 . Yet, aids is running rampant all over the world. And what class of folks are the problem there? (all over the world)
Several months back Tom Brocraw on the evening news stated that it is in Bibical proportions.

--Elijah

aids, aids while it is a primary gay male and gay male bisexual issue, there are heteros that have that. don't assume that women and men in a sexual relationship cant commit sodomy.

You MISS THE POINT! This thing is world/wide. And it is just [[ONE]] of the vast number of Matt. 24:21 'TRIBULATIONS!' And then follows 23 with what comes next on the agenda. This is what will test ones purity.

--Elijah
while rome and Greece and Egypt and later the nation of japan all had gay males in the spotlight and power where was this return? I don't recall god saying that after noah men got holier and never had the same base nature. I recall within a few hundred years after the flood(abram knew noah's sons) that lot's daughter commited incest with him. yes that might have been tolerated by god, but really? there wasn't men.?remember after the flood was the jugdement of Sodom and gommorah.and being gay wasn't the only reason. it was also for not taking care of the poor and fatherless and widows. oh yeah like we don't do that in America to or the west.
 
anti-Christ is a spirit not a person. the beast is a government not a person. was and is the imagery in Daniel listed as no person but had countries such as medio-persia, Greece and rome?
 
OK! Since the year of my birth. TV is on the scene. Telephone? And C.B.'s as well. And computers. And today we can warn the whole world in the matter of 'a few days' of the Second Coming of MY LORD!

So what is the hold up?? Only persecution ! ALL Rev. 17:1-5 ones joining the lost of Matt. 7's large [BROADWAY] group forcing through Caesar POWER the sun thing! (you need the force of Caesar as did old Israel) History repeats Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 for how God works with major things! See Gen. 41:32!

What will any of you agree on??? Just the one thing that has a violation with God. Because of LOVE for Christ + His 7th Day Sabbath requirement, this will be the test to see if one truly Loves Him!

Matt. 6
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (and the free choice will once again be Caesar over Christ!)

--Elijah

Again! It is the point that it is not the USA alone that is all messed up, [Matt. 24:21!] but it is God's forsaken universe! Every evil thing is what is bringing on the END!

And what is taking place is as it is RECORDED in verse 24 of Matt. 24! (the next couple verses say..)
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.
[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
[27] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

And it is a fact 'MOST' are saying where is the promise of His coming! 2 Peter 3

[3] Knowing [[this first,]] that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

--Elijah
 
uhm @ Edward, the language of the bible doesn't allow for that. what exactly injuries and kills the ac to the point that another has to heal him?
 
nimrod? given the idea of first mention go to the book of Daniel and compare the four horned beast with the one that blasphemes with the seven horned one with the same horn doing the same.

the four horns of the beast in Daniel are the four goverments (generals and their descandants). the horn that blasphemes is Antiochus ephinese
IV.
 
All the Scriptures on antichrist they are best read in context

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
 
the Assyrian are isn't in Syria that is Iraq, so is Babylon. please learn the countries.

Syria is the same today as the bible. Nineveh is in Iraq and so is Babylon.the Chaldean peoples are and assyrians are orthodox Christians by large, so they will attack isreal? really?
 
Back to the TOPIC!

And what is far, by far the WORSE, is the teachings of OSAS that God does not give Eve and Adam a
free choice of eating of the tree of knowledge or not doing so.
The idea of the Godhead not knowing the end result is of no issue! Surely they knew what would be the result, yet NONE of their creation knew this FINAL TESTS ENDING

. And this was (IS) the ISSUE.. Got that???

Then comes the folly of ETERNALLY BURNING in the lake of fire? Which has been preached for well past the STRIVING of the HOLY SPIRIT for much longer than any 120 years! (Gen. 6:3) Right along beside & inside the preaching of Noah.

And NO ONE is Born Again that will not OBEY this PLAN!! Acts 5:32



And to be Born Again means that EVERYONE has the CALL to make of accepting the Godheads ETERNALL PLAN of [[OBEDIENCE]]


or rejecting it! The Plan was the Godheads to make... OBEY AND LIVE or to DISOBEY AND ETERNALL BE BLOTTED FROM THE UNIVERSE!

And the Eternal Plan will not be finished until every living person has been DEAD. Heb. 11:1-3 & ibid 11.

And the teaching of otherwise? It is NO different than 1 Peter documents in 2 Peter 2:19-22 saying that...

[19] While they promise them liberty


, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.



[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.



[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.




And the Ten Commands given from

God's own LIPS!!
With the forth Commandment being the
FINAL TEST
for the Universe to see if they TRUELY LOVE CHRIST

, is the 'SIMPLE' test that will close up the ENDING

of it all.

And you LOVE CHRIST??? One person tells me that he is still learning the truth of these 120 years of the Holy Spirits STRIVING?? But we will 'SOON' see, huh???


And this is the Sign of the Ending! Two class are alive today from Matt. 7's Broadway & the End ones of Rev. 17:5 with ALL yoked together in 'MEMBERSHIP! Thus Christ pleads with them to leave! Rev. 18:4!!

--Elijah


 
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